RE: Alpine A110 makes European Car of the Year finals

[anonymous-user]

Ultrafunkula said:

I don't really care about ECOTY really but I hope it sells well. I feel the small coupe market is endangered and I'd like to see more choice around.

Yes, if they can keep on selling cars after the initial flurry of excitement has subsided it will be a good step forward after the failure of so many other coupes. I see very few sports cars and coupes on the road these days as Joe Public buys more and more soft roaders. Someone to join Mazda and Porsche as a serious player will be welcome.

[Miserablegit]

Just ignore Scmhed as he is a butt-hurt 718 owner. He has had some hliariously misguided posts on the subject of depreciation.
In fact the only disparaging remark he can level at the A110 is his baseless depreciation forecasts...

Now I see he is trying to back-pedal a little and is agreeing depreciation might not be as he predicted..

All I can say is: Schmed buy a car you like and drive it rather than wasting your time posting on a topic you clearly have no knowledge about or interest in.

I do find it bizarre that these people want to "win" the internet....

[anonymous-user]

I must be getting to you...

If the depreciation didn’t hit quite as hard maybe you could change your username

Edited by anonymous-user on Tuesday 27th November 11:14

[HighwayStar]

Miserablegit said:

Just ignore Scmhed as he is a butt-hurt 718 owner. He has had some hliariously misguided posts on the subject of depreciation.
In fact the only disparaging remark he can level at the A110 is his baseless depreciation forecasts...

Now I see he is trying to back-pedal a little and is agreeing depreciation might not be as he predicted..

All I can say is: Schmed buy a car you like and drive it rather than wasting your time posting on a topic you clearly have no knowledge about or interest in.

I do find it bizarre that these people want to "win" the internet....

Strange indeed. Some people can't seem to get past a badge and appreciate another car. I'm generally interested in cars, I have a 981 one but I like the Alpine. I was interested in reading about what they set out to do and it's great that they achieved it. If I ever decided to move on from the Cayman, at this moment the A110 is the only car that has my attention and it wouldn't bother me what the Scmheds of this would thought/had to say about it. I buy a car for me not to get looks or praise from other people... of course it's nice to hear a 'nice car mate' but I don't need the approval.

[nickfrog]

Miserablegit said:

Just ignore Scmhed as he is a butt-hurt 718 owner. He has had some hliariously misguided posts on the subject of depreciation.
In fact the only disparaging remark he can level at the A110 is his baseless depreciation forecasts...

Now I see he is trying to back-pedal a little and is agreeing depreciation might not be as he predicted..

All I can say is: Schmed buy a car you like and drive it rather than wasting your time posting on a topic you clearly have no knowledge about or interest in.

I do find it bizarre that these people want to "win" the internet....

I agree it's utterly bizarre even by PH standards as predicting its residuals is practically impossible. I reckon they'll be close to the residuals on a 718 actually, not that most owners of either cars worry that much.

[Simon Owen]

Thanks to Renault Manchester I managed to get an extended test drive in the Alpine.

Liked it a lot and I could see myself buying one.

The problem for me was (and its not a common comparison) that parked next to my nearly new and lightly modified GT86 it looked an awful lot of cash (more than double !!) for not necessarily an awful lot of gain.

There are obviously areas where the Alpine excels over the 86 (performance for one !!) but driving home the 86 still felt very special and in several key areas arguably better IMHO ... steering, driving position, NA, manual, practicality and to top it off a chassis that is just as playful as the Alpine at speeds appropriate for road use.

So came away loving it but pondering how on earth I could justify more than double what I paid for the 86.

[nickfrog]

Simon Owen said:

Thanks to Renault Manchester I managed to get an extended test drive in the Alpine.

Liked it a lot and I could see myself buying one.

The problem for me was (and its not a common comparison) that parked next to my nearly new and lightly modified GT86 it looked an awful lot of cash (more than double !!) for not necessarily an awful lot of gain.

There are obviously areas where the Alpine excels over the 86 (performance for one !!) but driving home the 86 still felt very special and in several key areas arguably better IMHO ... steering, driving position, NA, manual, practicality and to top it off a chassis that is just as playful as the Alpine at speeds appropriate for road use.

So came away loving it but pondering how on earth I could justify more than double what I paid for the 86.

That's a really good point actually and that's probably due to how good the GT86 is and the usual law of diminishing returns. Having said that I assume the difference in weight is about 200kgs which is were a big part of the extra cost will be.
As for NA, I much prefer most turbo engines to the GT86 power delivery and bizarre mapping but you may have improved yours on that front ?

[Lexington59]

Simon Owen said:

Thanks to Renault Manchester I managed to get an extended test drive in the Alpine.

So came away loving it but pondering how on earth I could justify more than double what I paid for the 86.

Definitely this, and the '86 won't depreciate anywhere near as much as the Renault.

[toppstuff]

A late entry here, but what on earth is going on?

The Alpine is a great car. Surely such a niche vehicle existing in this age of hybrids and regulations is to be celebrated - whoever is making it.

Edited by odie.mod on Tuesday 27th November 15:12

[Simon Owen]

nickfrog said:

That's a really good point actually and that's probably due to how good the GT86 is and the usual law of diminishing returns. Having said that I assume the difference in weight is about 200kgs which is were a big part of the extra cost will be.
As for NA, I much prefer most turbo engines to the GT86 power delivery and bizarre mapping but you may have improved yours on that front ?

Law of diminishing returns is a good way of putting it !!

As ever It's a bit unfair comparing new vs used plus I'm also throwing in some mods but I am VERY interested in the Alpine and cant buy a used one so it is very relevant to me. Our 86 is only 18 months old (3,000 miles at purchase) and even with all the mods cost < £25k.

Yes I have 'removed' the torque dip and had the car fully mapped with a new exhaust, the engine in this tune is actually quite nice to use, not amazing but pretty good and with really sharp response, I thought it was better having driven the two back to back. Other mods are tyres (PS4), Bilstein suspension and geo tweaks but that's all.

It was the drive home in the 86 that did it for me .... and realising that actually there were fundamental things that the 86 was better at for a fraction of the price, all IMHO of course !!

I'd love to lose 200kg and gain some of that sublime suspension control of the Alpine but the chassis balance of the 86 and the way it changes direction is easily up there with the Alpine :-)

[unpc]

s m said:

unpc said:

Nice as this is, I don't see it getting a look in against the I-Pace. It already one German car of the year IIRC.

I’m surprised many PH-ers place much stock in this award of European COTY as Vauxhalls have won 3 out of the last 10 years.
Not many seem to rate them well on here

I don't put any stock in this at all. Hardly ever does the best car win. It's usually some political stitch up.

[Lexington59]

For me, the Alpine's pros are basically handling & the drive.

The cons however are stacked against it:

Price
Badge
Looks
Turbo not NA
4 cylinder
No manual

That the GT86 offers the same thing for half the cost is the death knell to the coffin, that and you'll never get a Renault residual anywhere near a Porsche if anyone cares about this.

[DaveTheRave87]

If I were betting on this, I'd put my money on the iPace.

The Alpine looks like a decent car, I don't hate the looks but I could see the lack of a manual gearbox putting people off.

But good on the ECOTY judges for including an interesting car on the final list.

[Prestonese]

Lexington59 said:

For me, the Alpine's pros are basically handling & the drive.

The cons however are stacked against it:

Price
Badge
Looks
Turbo not NA
4 cylinder
No manual

That the GT86 offers the same thing for half the cost is the death knell to the coffin, that and you'll never get a Renault residual anywhere near a Porsche if anyone cares about this.

That's a bit harsh. It's not really right to compare the Alpine with mainstream cars to be honest as it almost occupies it's own space. The layout and price has been discussed extensively else where so not worth going over but the compromises doesn't diminish the driving experience if you approach it with an open mind. It's just a fun car which doesn't have an ego and image associated with other brands.

The gearbox and turbo engine is well executed but if they went NASP they would probably have the same issues as the GT86. Anyway, even Porsche has given up on the NASP excepted for their "best" clients.

Looks wise it's a curate's egg. It looks miles better in flesh than in photos. Plenty like it even if some don't.

One key thing I see people mentioning is that it's not as good as a daily. I would argue that it's a better daily than a GT86 or Cayman in my experience. It is certainly a more comfortable tourer or city car than the other two. Besides, I doubt many owners of these types of cars carry 4 pieces of luggage and passengers every day anyway? Or if they did, exactly how much heel and toe fun can they have?

[Prestonese]

DaveTheRave87 said:

If I were betting on this, I'd put my money on the iPace.

The Alpine looks like a decent car, I don't hate the looks but I could see the lack of a manual gearbox putting people off.

But good on the ECOTY judges for including an interesting car on the final list.

I'd agree with you there. It just seems more fitting to award it to such a car for today's market.

[Simon Owen]

Prestonese said:

That's a bit harsh. It's not really right to compare the Alpine with mainstream cars to be honest as it almost occupies it's own space. The layout and price has been discussed extensively else where so not worth going over but the compromises doesn't diminish the driving experience if you approach it with an open mind. It's just a fun car which doesn't have an ego and image associated with other brands.

The gearbox and turbo engine is well executed but if they went NASP they would probably have the same issues as the GT86. Anyway, even Porsche has given up on the NASP excepted for their "best" clients.

Exactly my initial thoughts, until I parked them side by side and drove them back to back, don't get me wrong I'm not knocking the Alpine, I loved it.

The suspension is brilliant in the way it flows down a twist B road.

It's just that the 86 felt much closer than I ever imagined it would in terms of driver involvement and fun at real world road speeds.

[greenarrow]

Lexington59 said:

For me, the Alpine's pros are basically handling & the drive.

The cons however are stacked against it:

Price
Badge
Looks
Turbo not NA
4 cylinder
No manual

That the GT86 offers the same thing for half the cost is the death knell to the coffin, that and you'll never get a Renault residual anywhere near a Porsche if anyone cares about this.

The GT86 doesn't offer the same thing though does it. Its not a rear engine 2 seat Sports Car which does 0-60 in under 5 seconds.

As for the point made about Renault residuals (not that its a Renault, but an Alpine, but putting that aside). Seen the price of Megane R26Rs recently? You'll probably pay more for one of those than the equivalent year Cayman or Boxster.

[Miserablegit]

Lexington59 said:

For me, the Alpine's pros are basically handling & the drive.

The cons however are stacked against it:

Price
Badge
Looks
Turbo not NA
4 cylinder
No manual

That the GT86 offers the same thing for half the cost is the death knell to the coffin, that and you'll never get a Renault residual anywhere near a Porsche if anyone cares about this.

This is fundamentally flawed
The alpine offers better performance than the cayster and is a rocket ship in comparison to a gt86.
I can accept people might not like the looks ( they are a personal thing) but the Alpine flies and has a bespoke platform. It’s doing 0-60 in 4.2 one up and whilst this isn’t the true measure of a car it gives some idea of performance.

[Prestonese]

Simon Owen said:

Exactly my initial thoughts, until I parked them side by side and drove them back to back, don't get me wrong I'm not knocking the Alpine, I loved it.

The suspension is brilliant in the way it flows down a twist B road.

It's just that the 86 felt much closer than I ever imagined it would in terms of driver involvement and fun at real world road speeds.

I actually thought the same as you until I took the Alpine across some quick hilly B roads in the Pennines. In standard format, the GT86 suffers massively in this environment because of the relative weaknesses of the engine. The Alpine however seemed really well judged there and took fun to a different level. And it's more comfortable around London than the GT86!

[cerb4.5lee]

Miserablegit said:

I can accept people might not like the looks ( they are a personal thing) but the Alpine flies and has a bespoke platform. It’s doing 0-60 in 4.2 one up and whilst this isn’t the true measure of a car it gives some idea of performance.

The Alpine also does 0 to 100 in 10.8 secs and my old E92 M3(manual) only did it in 10.5 secs with 414bhp! I love what Alpine have done regards lightness, the M3 at 1650kg is a proper heavy beast(as is the M2 at 1625kg).

I wasn't sure on the looks of the Alpine from photos, but I really liked it from the front/side when I saw one in person(just the rear didn't float my boat).