RE: Eighth generation Porsche 911 officially unveiled
Discussion
sidesauce said:
hich obviously shows you're both in a minority. That's not a criticism, it's just most people don't agree with your assessment, that's all.
Being in a minority doesn't particularly make someone wrong in their assesment. The last 911 I drove was a 997.2 C2S and while I know they have evolved, turn-in was just bizarre and aloof/floaty. Really unpleasant and I couldn't live with that compared to how sharp the turn in is with mid-engine Porsches (or an M4 for that matter). That probably puts me in a minority too and probably simply demonstrates that different people like different things.
Julian Thompson said:
sidesauce said:
Julian Thompson said:
donutskidmark said:
Julian Thompson said:
Well I can’t really explain this viewpoint any other way so I’ll tell you what happened to me.
So back in 16 I bought a 991.1 gts and really didn’t get on with it. Why? Purely because it was a very expenisve car that, for most of the time on the road was not really that much better than lots of other cars. And, when you tried to drive it hard and really enjoy it I found it a bit numb and dead compared to the old 964RS that my 911 memories are founded on.
So, I sold the expensive 991 and bought an M4 for about half the price. The M4 does 99% of the jobs the 991 did for 99% of the time. It’s also a bit numb, and a bit ubiquitous but it cost a lot, lot less money, and it’s still a great place to be. I also don’t mind quite as much leaving it parked up like I did with the 991.
So in my case the 911 did compete with the M4 purely because of the extra cost of ownership of the 911 not being worth it (to me) for the small benefits of the car being better - the 911 is (in “cooking model” format) no longer the totally different, completely unique car it once was now it has been sanitised over so many years. It will be interesting to see if the new one is better than the one I had.
Ironically, I do also still have a GT3 991 which I absolutely love and which feels NOTHING like the gts or other standard model 911’s and which I think is worth all the extra cash - truly a special machine that, as a car, is way better than the old 964RS ever was (leaving rose glasses at home) when it comes to a pure driving machine.
I agree totally with the above.So back in 16 I bought a 991.1 gts and really didn’t get on with it. Why? Purely because it was a very expenisve car that, for most of the time on the road was not really that much better than lots of other cars. And, when you tried to drive it hard and really enjoy it I found it a bit numb and dead compared to the old 964RS that my 911 memories are founded on.
So, I sold the expensive 991 and bought an M4 for about half the price. The M4 does 99% of the jobs the 991 did for 99% of the time. It’s also a bit numb, and a bit ubiquitous but it cost a lot, lot less money, and it’s still a great place to be. I also don’t mind quite as much leaving it parked up like I did with the 991.
So in my case the 911 did compete with the M4 purely because of the extra cost of ownership of the 911 not being worth it (to me) for the small benefits of the car being better - the 911 is (in “cooking model” format) no longer the totally different, completely unique car it once was now it has been sanitised over so many years. It will be interesting to see if the new one is better than the one I had.
Ironically, I do also still have a GT3 991 which I absolutely love and which feels NOTHING like the gts or other standard model 911’s and which I think is worth all the extra cash - truly a special machine that, as a car, is way better than the old 964RS ever was (leaving rose glasses at home) when it comes to a pure driving machine.
The 991.1 GTS was not worth the money and had numb steering- I sold mine after 4 months.
The 992 success- for driving enthusiasts anyway, depends largely if it has responsive handling and feel. I imagine however that 90% of buyers ain’t bothered if it feels like any other fast Audi or BMW.....they’ll be cruising to Waitrose and just want a nice car.
I do think it’s unnecessary that the 992 tells you when it’s wet with a dashboard warning, can’t you look out of the windscreen and see puddles and rain?
Having said all this, my father borrowed the car for a day or so and absolutely, absolutely loved it. And a couple of my friends who drove it also absolutely loved it, so it is clear that my disappointment is certainly not a shared view. (Until today - never met anyone else who actuallly had had one who agreed with me apart from the guy mentioned above)
To be fair the criticism of the 991.1 GTS is not limited to us two here......some time after I sold mine I recall reading a review by a motoring journalist who had borrowed one and he too said the car had an awful ride.
I’ve now got a 991.1 GT3 RS and the ride is amazingly good and compliant on B roads- Porsche presumably just got that GTS wrong for some reason imho
Also the other thing that drove me mental was the gearbox. Forgot to mention that.
With the gts even if you had it locked in manual mode the car would kick down if you pressed the accelerator too hard into the click switch. And the pdk selector was the wrong way round if you wanted to use the stick for manual shifts.
The GT3/rs have different programming and there is no “kick down switch” even there, so full power is just full power like it should be. And manual mode means manual mode. It’ll sit there on the Rev limiter if you let it whereas that gts just took all the control away from you.
With the gts even if you had it locked in manual mode the car would kick down if you pressed the accelerator too hard into the click switch. And the pdk selector was the wrong way round if you wanted to use the stick for manual shifts.
The GT3/rs have different programming and there is no “kick down switch” even there, so full power is just full power like it should be. And manual mode means manual mode. It’ll sit there on the Rev limiter if you let it whereas that gts just took all the control away from you.
Kenny Powers said:
Dusty964 said:
You have to love forums.
It's now too big, less focused, with the wrong instruments, too expensive, more gt than sports car, with the wrong brake lights, not special enough, too common, and not enough of an event to see in a carpark as some saddo can't tell if someone else's car is a 2/4/s. It makes the wrong noise, the other cars in the manufacturers range reduce its desirability, and the display screen is all wrong.
It will do exactly what they have been doing for 50 years. Launch. Win tests. Be usable daily, hold its value, and be the base for racing versions, a cabrio, likely a targa and numerous gt editions--which of course will be unobtainable, much to the chagrin of those not in the market for one anyway.
You don't have to like a 911 of course, but as a car enthusiast, you'd be pretty shortsighted not to appreciate its history, development, and motorsports pedigree.
Can someone please trot out the squashed beetle line for the full house.
It's now too big, less focused, with the wrong instruments, too expensive, more gt than sports car, with the wrong brake lights, not special enough, too common, and not enough of an event to see in a carpark as some saddo can't tell if someone else's car is a 2/4/s. It makes the wrong noise, the other cars in the manufacturers range reduce its desirability, and the display screen is all wrong.
It will do exactly what they have been doing for 50 years. Launch. Win tests. Be usable daily, hold its value, and be the base for racing versions, a cabrio, likely a targa and numerous gt editions--which of course will be unobtainable, much to the chagrin of those not in the market for one anyway.
You don't have to like a 911 of course, but as a car enthusiast, you'd be pretty shortsighted not to appreciate its history, development, and motorsports pedigree.
Can someone please trot out the squashed beetle line for the full house.
It’s not just cars though, or even just the internet. Pretty much eveything “sucks” these days. Moaning is edgy and informed, liking things or just being indifferent is a sign of weakness.
I think Porsche have nailed this car. In fact they rarely get it wrong. I saw a base 991 the other day in traffic and thought what a stunning car It looks. The last 911 I wasn't so keen on looks wise was the 996, but now I think a base Carrera 2 version of that one looks quite nice. The 911 will do what it has always done, give more expensive cars headaches. I still don't know how the GT3 for example gets so close to the McLarens and Ferraris on lap time, despite giving away so much in horsepower. Long may it continue.
baconsarney said:
HighwayStar said:
baconsarney said:
Not read the whole thread, but regarding the width comments, I was under the impression it was only the front that was wider than the previous gen, and only by about 45mm.......
Correct, it’s the same front track as the GT3 now. 
nickfrog said:
Being in a minority doesn't particularly make someone wrong in their assesment. The last 911 I drove was a 997.2 C2S and while I know they have evolved, turn-in was just bizarre and aloof/floaty. Really unpleasant and I couldn't live with that compared to how sharp the turn in is with mid-engine Porsches (or an M4 for that matter). That probably puts me in a minority too and probably simply demonstrates that different people like different things.
I never said the assessment was wrong so I don't understand your point? I fully agree that different people like different things but my point was that you three represent the minority of people in not liking the car, not who was right or wrong in their assessment of it.
If Porsche are in the business of making money (which they obviously are), then their primary objective is to keep the majority happy by making a product their customers like and actually want to buy... Even if they themselves agreed with the minorities opinion!
sidesauce said:
I fully agree that different people like different things but my point was that you three represent the minority of people in not liking the car
Point of English; many people don't seem to understand the meaning of the word"whether". It is a word that is conditional. It doesn't mean something is, only that it may or may not be. Therefore, the "or not" is redundant. It's like saying ," consecutive in a row" or "reduce down". So, since we English speakers tend not to speak other languages, we should at least be able to get right the one language we supposedly can speak.
Pedantic point now made and now you know...whether you like it.
Pedantic point now made and now you know...whether you like it.
nickfrog said:
Have you got data to back up your assumption that we are in a minority ? It's entirely possible that a majority of sports car buyers didn't choose a 911 because they preferred something with different driving characteristics, and PMOI in particular.
The fact that a previous poster mentioned that upon selling his car and posting his comments on a Porsche forum resulted in vitriolic responses would suggest he's in the minority.It's interesting now, that so many cars have big power outputs, there need to be other ways to define the value in a vehicle.
An M3 has a similar power output to a Carrera S, probably generates similar lateral grip levels and I wouldn't be surprised if the economy was actually better than the 911. It has a fast dual clutch gearbox. Not to mention 4 seats and room for the occupants' luggage. And it's cheap enough you could buy a Caterham with the price difference for your s
ts and giggles.
However, a 911 doesn't drive like an M3. It is a different beast altogether. It won't make you feel the same emotionally and objectively the 911 is likely to give a better overall performance. But these days, power is converging all of these cars and you have to rely on increasingly marginal tangibles and intangibles to justify the differences in price.
A new 340i is only 25bhp shy of 400bhp and 70 odd from a current full fat M3. An M3 is not shy of a 911s straight line performance (within anything remotely remote from jail time speeds), and an M5 would obliterate a Carrera. A mildly fettled Focus RS wouldn't be far behind anything but the super-super saloons.
FWIW, after my M3 got nicked I'm looking at a Cayman, taking a considerable power drop, however there's more to life than power.
Apologies for the ramble!
An M3 has a similar power output to a Carrera S, probably generates similar lateral grip levels and I wouldn't be surprised if the economy was actually better than the 911. It has a fast dual clutch gearbox. Not to mention 4 seats and room for the occupants' luggage. And it's cheap enough you could buy a Caterham with the price difference for your s
ts and giggles. However, a 911 doesn't drive like an M3. It is a different beast altogether. It won't make you feel the same emotionally and objectively the 911 is likely to give a better overall performance. But these days, power is converging all of these cars and you have to rely on increasingly marginal tangibles and intangibles to justify the differences in price.
A new 340i is only 25bhp shy of 400bhp and 70 odd from a current full fat M3. An M3 is not shy of a 911s straight line performance (within anything remotely remote from jail time speeds), and an M5 would obliterate a Carrera. A mildly fettled Focus RS wouldn't be far behind anything but the super-super saloons.
FWIW, after my M3 got nicked I'm looking at a Cayman, taking a considerable power drop, however there's more to life than power.
Apologies for the ramble!
nickfrog said:
sidesauce said:
I fully agree that different people like different things but my point was that you three represent the minority of people in not liking the car
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