RE: Audi to rival Tesla with 590hp e-tron GT
Discussion
Jimbo. said:
Goodnight Tesla...
LOL
LOL, and LOL again.Every time there's an announcement of a (maybe) forthcoming EV from any of the fanboy three, some cheesy bell on here proclaims it's the end of Tesla. Congrats on being the first, and get some therapy.
Edited by FeelingLucky on Wednesday 28th November 22:28
Audi etron 20k PA production, Porsche taycan/audi etron gT 20,000 pa production. Total 40,000 pa. by 2020.
VAG might have a plant producing 200,000k EVs by 2020.
Tesla are currently approaching 1/2 million cars a year production levels, might be 1mil plus by 2002. And they have their own battery supply for that, that is a minimum 20% cheaper than the competition.
VAG/Porsche are investing heavily and they might catch up by 2025 or somewhere. I dont think they will have a long term problem but they wont kill tesla at all.
Companies like ford and GM are deep in the s
t imo.
VAG might have a plant producing 200,000k EVs by 2020.
Tesla are currently approaching 1/2 million cars a year production levels, might be 1mil plus by 2002. And they have their own battery supply for that, that is a minimum 20% cheaper than the competition.
VAG/Porsche are investing heavily and they might catch up by 2025 or somewhere. I dont think they will have a long term problem but they wont kill tesla at all.
Companies like ford and GM are deep in the s
t imo.
The highest mileage A7 on PH at the moment. 115,000 'mostly motorway' miles and is a 2013 car.
https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/...
23,000 miles a year, 63 miles a day on average.
https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/...
23,000 miles a year, 63 miles a day on average.
RobDickinson said:
The highest mileage A7 on PH at the moment. 115,000 'mostly motorway' miles and is a 2013 car.
https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/...
23,000 miles a year, 63 miles a day on average.
Ironically enough, that's my car. I bought it at 96k about 18 months ago. It'll be 5 years old in December. My lease Volvo is here now, so it needs to be sold.https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/...
23,000 miles a year, 63 miles a day on average.
lol!
Realistically a 250 mile EV should be charged full in the morning at home, you can drive 250 miles ( what 4-5 hours of driving) , do 'stuff' whilst it charges then drive 250 miles home and plug it in ready for tomorrow.
Thats a poxy 182,000 miles a year , the typical PH powerfully built director will likely travel more than that I guess.
Realistically a 250 mile EV should be charged full in the morning at home, you can drive 250 miles ( what 4-5 hours of driving) , do 'stuff' whilst it charges then drive 250 miles home and plug it in ready for tomorrow.
Thats a poxy 182,000 miles a year , the typical PH powerfully built director will likely travel more than that I guess.
964Cup said:
250 mile range. What use is that? I wonder when they'll stop chasing "ludicrous" acceleration numbers and start giving us usable ranges. To come close to replacing our ICE car, we need a 400 mile range with no more than 30 mins refuelling time at the outside. Otherwise a routine 11 hour journey will become some kind of "dog walking on its hind legs" marathon odyssey.
There's a US SUV with a 180kwh battery coming. That makes much more sense to me, but the charging infrastructure to cope with it is years away.
Where to start with this? So much crap in one post. There's a US SUV with a 180kwh battery coming. That makes much more sense to me, but the charging infrastructure to cope with it is years away.
You know what, I can't be bothered any more. You enjoy you mythical, 5 ton, 180kwh battery unicorn.
If they changed the front lights and grille, and that said it was the new mission-e panamera, i'd have believed it..
Good looking car, interesting tech. Hopefully adding players to rival Tesla will make them up their own game and fix their quality levels. Even better, once electric cars go mainstream, the current e car evangelists might stop acting like they're somehow transcended from us normal folk!
Good looking car, interesting tech. Hopefully adding players to rival Tesla will make them up their own game and fix their quality levels. Even better, once electric cars go mainstream, the current e car evangelists might stop acting like they're somehow transcended from us normal folk!
FeelingLucky said:
Jimbo. said:
Goodnight Tesla...
LOLLOL, and LOL again.Every time there's an announcement of a (maybe) forthcoming EV from any of the fanboy three, some cheesy bell on here proclaims it's the end of Tesla. Congrats on being the first, and get some therapy.
Edited by FeelingLucky on Wednesday 28th November 22:28
Interesting, but until someone proves you can produce a profitable £30k electric car with a decent range that is a relatively nice thing to drive we’ll be seeing the ICE as the mainstay of transport.
Despite Tesla’s best efforts and the Nissan Leaf the electric car remains a rich persons play thing rather than a green transport revolution.
Despite Tesla’s best efforts and the Nissan Leaf the electric car remains a rich persons play thing rather than a green transport revolution.
This is the best looking Audi since the mk1 R8 I reckon. Looks amazing.
Good to see regular car makers catching up with Tesla. Will be interesting to see how Tesla react, they need to put a lot of work into the fit and finish of their cars to catch up to the Audis of this world.
Exciting times ahead.
Good to see regular car makers catching up with Tesla. Will be interesting to see how Tesla react, they need to put a lot of work into the fit and finish of their cars to catch up to the Audis of this world.
Exciting times ahead.
manracer said:
Where to start with this? So much crap in one post.
You know what, I can't be bothered any more. You enjoy you mythical, 5 ton, 180kwh battery unicorn.
Oh look, another 12-year-old.You know what, I can't be bothered any more. You enjoy you mythical, 5 ton, 180kwh battery unicorn.
Here's the mythical unicorn: https://www.pistonheads.com/regulars/ph-ev/rivian-...
Yes, not in production yet (but then, neither is the eTron). Yes, not really credible, but at least they've tried to put real range into the car. It probably weighs not much more than the previous model full-fat Range Rover, and is about the same size as the current one.
We drive to Italy and back 5 times a year (so that's 10 x 11 hour journeys), and to France and back 10 times a year (6 hours each way). That's the only reason we own a car at all. I don't want to have to stop every 400km on a 1200km journey to wait 45 minutes to recharge, assuming there's a charger available - of course, once EVs gain any kind of real popularity, the queues will be comical. I also don't want to have to find a charger in our tiny Italian village - clue: there isn't one. Our entire apartment runs on 16A, so i don't think I'll be charging the car at home there.
Sure, with a 250 mile range I'd only have to stop once to charge on the way to France - instead of not at all - and I could charge the car there as we actually have something resembling a first world electricity supply. But in the real world that charge stop is going to add an hour to the journey, assuming only one person is waiting in line before me for the charge point. The infrastructure just isn't ready for mass adoption, and the range just isn't there for anyone who uses a car for long journeys.
EVs make good sense in town. But then, so does a bicycle. Which doesn't need a charger and runs on oatmeal. So I use a bicycle to get around town.
250 mile range probably means a bit over 200 in real world before range anxiety kicks in.
That simply is not good enough.
Tesla have been at this for years, still no evidence that anyone is going to pass them in battery efficiency and vehicle range yet.
Throw in the reality of limited supply for these cars , and the reality of Jaguar's current inability to make the iPace in volume and with a range anywhere close to Tesla , and Musk is probably grinning ear to ear right now.
Try harder, try harder.
That simply is not good enough.
Tesla have been at this for years, still no evidence that anyone is going to pass them in battery efficiency and vehicle range yet.
Throw in the reality of limited supply for these cars , and the reality of Jaguar's current inability to make the iPace in volume and with a range anywhere close to Tesla , and Musk is probably grinning ear to ear right now.
Try harder, try harder.
Tesla appears to me to have four issues. First it has an extraordinary market cap while not actually making money, second it isn't generating net cash though I guess the 3 might get it over the line, third it's volumes are tiny and liable to fluctuation as new opposition finally crawls into existence, fourth the current buyers are evangelists for new concepts - classic early adopters who accept product limitations to have something clever, I would, but my sister wouldn't. For her there is no buy in to a concept, she demands reliability and tight manufacture - I can not say if Tesla's have problems but low volume manufacture often brings such issues.
When reaching out to tier 1 suppliers, most of the contracts in my day had strict volume requirements, if volume wasn't met costs increased per unit. Equally a factory is an evil beast to run - at optimal efficiency they are OK but the motor industry is almost designed to be inefficient due to model cycles - at peak you pay overtime and as the model ages the line runs slower and the fixed costs sit on your head like an anvil - I've been there and it is terrifying how per unit costs explode!
SO - does Tesla have the brand image and model cycle, bearing in mind how expensive it is to update cars and the issues change cause, to fend off the new shiny things in the market, which are produced by companies with production numbers in millions rather than hundreds of thousands, companies with the breadth to absorb a slowing line on product A while product X is rising to peak.
If it is adequately future proofed then the naysayers will be driving Tesla in 20 years. If not it will disappear, the market cap dragging it down as confidence disappears against rising losses and the investor sentiment collapses, as is common with tech things - look at Bitcoin at the moment. Only that market cap makes Tesla viable - if that falls before regular profitability is established it could all get messy.
My heart wishes them well - but I am a cynical economist and I don't think I'd put money in today.
When reaching out to tier 1 suppliers, most of the contracts in my day had strict volume requirements, if volume wasn't met costs increased per unit. Equally a factory is an evil beast to run - at optimal efficiency they are OK but the motor industry is almost designed to be inefficient due to model cycles - at peak you pay overtime and as the model ages the line runs slower and the fixed costs sit on your head like an anvil - I've been there and it is terrifying how per unit costs explode!
SO - does Tesla have the brand image and model cycle, bearing in mind how expensive it is to update cars and the issues change cause, to fend off the new shiny things in the market, which are produced by companies with production numbers in millions rather than hundreds of thousands, companies with the breadth to absorb a slowing line on product A while product X is rising to peak.
If it is adequately future proofed then the naysayers will be driving Tesla in 20 years. If not it will disappear, the market cap dragging it down as confidence disappears against rising losses and the investor sentiment collapses, as is common with tech things - look at Bitcoin at the moment. Only that market cap makes Tesla viable - if that falls before regular profitability is established it could all get messy.
My heart wishes them well - but I am a cynical economist and I don't think I'd put money in today.
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