RE: Audi to rival Tesla with 590hp e-tron GT

[Don Colione]

@Maldini

By the way... didn't you say in a previous thread that you would no longer be reading or replying to any of my posts?

What a man of your word you are....

[Witchfinder]

Cold said:

Any other (mis)information you care to continue to write is on a matter removed from anything I have said.

Ahh, so now we're arguing details. Although you're technically correct, you're being pedantic. I mean, just eating meat, heating your house, and being alive is killing the planet, if you want to get technical.

Zero tailpipe emissions and cars powered by renewables is far, far better than using fossil fuels.

[Cold]

Witchfinder said:

Ahh, so now we're arguing details. Although you're technically correct, you're being pedantic. I mean, just eating meat, heating your house, and being alive is killing the planet, if you want to get technical.

Zero tailpipe emissions and cars powered by renewables is far, far better than using fossil fuels.

I'm not arguing anything. Again, that's another extrapolation you've made. I pointed out one comment that was nonsense. It was, it still is. Nothing more to add. Hope that helps your understanding of that one post.

[DonkeyApple]

Maldini35 said:

So your main worry is:

“For me ... the biggest problem EVs have is their potential to leave you hanging during an emergency situation.

If you need to flee your location fast during a natural disaster or such (which can happen happen at any time), and haven't fully charged; you and your family could literally be dead.”

Ok Einstein imagine this scenario :
You don’t fill up with petrol/diesel before returning home. You’ll ‘fill her up tomorrow’ you think.
Then the fire hits your home and you only have 10 miles left in the tank but the fire is raging for more than 20 miles around your house. Worse still the only petrol station in range has already been consumed by the fire.
Hmmm

I’ll leave you to get back to your bunker and pop your foil hat back on.

Do ICE engines work well in environments where fire has sucked out all the oxygen? Isn’t oxygen starvation what causes cars to konk out and the occupants to get roasted?

The biggest natural disaster in the U.K. is Birmingham but the key is to just not go there in the first instance.

Emergency 500 miles to see the dying elderly relative? Why suddenly care at that moment in time when you didn’t care the day before or before that or at anytime you lived 500 miles away from them? FaceTime exists to avoid actual face time anyway and a random 8 hour drive isn’t going to change their will.

[98elise]

Cold said:

Witchfinder said:

Amazing. The facts are plainly visible to anyone, and the vast majority of scientists are in agreement after decades of research. Air pollution kills, and carbon dioxide emissions contribute to climate change. Yet some people bury their heads in the sand and proclaim it to be some sort of voodoo or cult view.

I'm curious, what exactly is it going to take to persuade you that anthropogenic climate change and air pollution caused by burning fossil fuels are real, happening now, and killing people right now?

I know change is scary, but we're all going to have to change - some more than others - if we want humanity to survive. That doesn't necessarily mean living in a yurt and cycling everywhere no matter what the weather. Those combustion engines are going to have to go though.

Because manufacturing and subsequently using a new car will not be a pollution free action. Some seem to think that just because the energy they use isn't in one specific form it is pollution free.

Nobody thinks that.

Some people think other people think that though.

[GT119]

Don Colione said:

Witchfinder said:

Nobody said it was pollution free. However, EVs are proven to be way better than combustion engines (even with coal power!), and will continually improve as we switch to renewables.

What about raping the planet to acquire the precious metals to make your 'precious' batteries?

You know where they come from right?

Cast that projection into a long-term future....

In what way is the extraction and then burning of fossil fuel not raping the planet then.
Extracting iron and other materials to make ICE cars is just as validly described as raping the planet.
EVs have the potential to be many times less rapey....to use your vernacular.
The whole 'escape from disaster' scenario is laughably irrelevant.

[Don Colione]

GT119 said:

Don Colione said:

Witchfinder said:

Nobody said it was pollution free. However, EVs are proven to be way better than combustion engines (even with coal power!), and will continually improve as we switch to renewables.

What about raping the planet to acquire the precious metals to make your 'precious' batteries?

You know where they come from right?

Cast that projection into a long-term future....

In what way is the extraction and then burning of fossil fuel not raping the planet then.
Extracting iron and other materials to make ICE cars is just as validly described as raping the planet.
EVs have the potential to be many times less rapey....to use your vernacular.
The whole 'escape from disaster' scenario is laughably irrelevant.

One of you delusional "save the planet" eco types said that producing electronic cars doesn't destroy the planet. I pointed out a situation where they do. Yes, producing ICE cars also does the same, but ICE proponents are not stupid enough to have their head in the sand to think otherwise...

The 'whole escape from disaster scenario' is irrelevant... until you are in one. It doesn't have to be a fire; within the span of my original post we already had a 7.0 earthquake in Alaska of all places. Keep dreaming, and hope disaster or any other emergency where you need to leave immediately doesn't visit your life anytime soon. For others, who live in disaster zones, it is an ever present reality.

Sorry if you are too delusional, or selfish to care. Keep living in your electric fantasy world.

[RobDickinson]

I said driving it has close to zero ecological/health cost.

Of course manufacturing it does. Typically higher co2 cost than an ice car. But that is quickly repaid.

The cost to humans in health and environmental of ice cars esp diesel is huge.

[GT119]

Don Colione said:

GT119 said:

Don Colione said:

Witchfinder said:

Nobody said it was pollution free. However, EVs are proven to be way better than combustion engines (even with coal power!), and will continually improve as we switch to renewables.

What about raping the planet to acquire the precious metals to make your 'precious' batteries?

You know where they come from right?

Cast that projection into a long-term future....

In what way is the extraction and then burning of fossil fuel not raping the planet then.
Extracting iron and other materials to make ICE cars is just as validly described as raping the planet.
EVs have the potential to be many times less rapey....to use your vernacular.
The whole 'escape from disaster' scenario is laughably irrelevant.

One of you delusional "save the planet" eco types said that producing electronic cars doesn't destroy the planet. I pointed out a situation where they do. Yes, producing ICE cars also does the same, but ICE proponents are not stupid enough to have their head in the sand to think otherwise...

The 'whole escape from disaster scenario' is irrelevant... until you are in one. It doesn't have to be a fire; within the span of my original post we already had a 7.0 earthquake in Alaska of all places. Keep dreaming, and hope disaster or any other emergency where you need to leave immediately doesn't visit your life anytime soon. For others, who live in disaster zones, it is an ever present reality.

Sorry if you are too delusional, or selfish to care. Keep living in your electric fantasy world.

OK....

[RobDickinson]

As I said earlier I've been through a major natural disaster. No electricity, no petrol stations.

If I had an ev and solar /battery I would have been far better off.

As it was it took me near 4 hours to cross a city usually took 35min, I was near on empty. Meant I couldn't go far the next day to try to find water.

[Plug Life]

bodhi said:

It was. Rubbish signal, no 3G, no MMS, lots of other stuff that other phones had been doing for ages.

The iPhone made apps easy to use, that was about it. Nothing else was particularly ground breaking.

That was it? Oh. LOL You should do stand-up.

[kambites]

Plug Life said:

That was it?

Pretty much, yes it was. The iPhone didn't do anything which hadn't been done before except add user-friendliness and... design panache, for want of a better term. Of course those things aren't without value, as the iPhone's success shows. Apple have never been about bleeding edge hardware technology or features, they're about packaging existing things up in a nice friendly format and they do it bloody well.

Of course you could argue the same about Tesla. There's nothing actually particularly special about their drivetrain from a technological point of view; they're just the first people to make it work as a commercial product which people not only want to buy but are willing to pay a premium for.

[Plug Life]

kambites said:

Of course those things aren't without value, as the iPhone's success shows.

No st. Actually as Android's success shows as well, because Rubin's team trashed the original Blackberry-like Android design after the iPhone keynote and brought out the big finger touch screen based one. That's why it's comedy gold to talk about no MMS and nothing groundbreaking regarding a game changer that made the finger touch smart phone the new standard. Though you are probably right about the similarity with Tesla, it's also a game changer that starts a new standard – the EV. Hopefully ICE goes the way of the dumb phones – to the history books.

[DonkeyApple]

Don Colione said:

I'm sorry .... how is an electric car going to "save" me in such a scenario?

You should probably be able to short yourself out more easily than with an ICE?

[Maldini35]

Don Colione said:

Maldini35 said:

Don Colione said:

Maldini35 said:

Don Colione said:

For me ... the biggest problem EVs have is their potential to leave you hanging during an emergency situation.

If you need to flee your location fast during a natural disaster or such (which can happen happen at any time), and haven't fully charged; you and your family could literally be dead.

Most 'ideal' 250 mile range marketing quotes are for cars that are new, have no passengers or extra weight, and are fully topped off. If not in ideal conditions, your range could be considerably less.

In an ICE, even if almost empty; I can find gas literally anywhere, fill up in minutes, and be outta there... if necessary.

The delayed charging times of EVs are also still a MAJOR negative.

Imagine trying to get some "supercharger" time during an emergency when everybody is forced to flee the area? Much less being in a long endless queue of cars evacuating in emergency traffic, trying to last with a full "charge" as long as possible while your 'range' ticks down by the minute due to 'parasitic' drain/losses; because your entire car is dependent on electricity to run.

I don't want to have to depend on automakers to generously give me 'over the air' range updates during such situations either....

An ICE could face some of these problems, but there is currently a permanent infrastructure in place to provide for millions on demand. If the power grid goes out, for any reason, you are screwed in an EV...

Gas stations can at least keep going with a back up generator during a power grid shut down.

Out of interest, how many natural disasters have you fled from?

Have you got your ‘bug out’ bag ready?

I’m not saying it’s an impossible scenario but for most people it’s probably not something that keeps them awake at night.
Perhaps I’m being selfish but then again Cambridge isn’t in the shade of an active volcano or sat on the San Andreas fault.

You're right, you are being selfish - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LtwutlbJQqI

So your main worry is:

“For me ... the biggest problem EVs have is their potential to leave you hanging during an emergency situation.

If you need to flee your location fast during a natural disaster or such (which can happen happen at any time), and haven't fully charged; you and your family could literally be dead.”

Ok Einstein imagine this scenario :
You don’t fill up with petrol/diesel before returning home. You’ll ‘fill her up tomorrow’ you think.
Then the fire hits your home and you only have 10 miles left in the tank but the fire is raging for more than 20 miles around your house. Worse still the only petrol station in range has already been consumed by the fire.
Hmmm

I’ll leave you to get back to your bunker and pop your foil hat back on.

I'm sorry .... how is an electric car going to "save" me in such a scenario?

Is that a "dunce" cap lol?

Ok - just to be clear - I’ll spell it out.

Both ICE and EV cars are useless in a natural disaster scenario if you forget to fill up the tank or charge the battery.
So your point that you would not buy an EV just in case of some apocalyptic event does not make sense (because an ICE car would be similarly useless if not filled up).

Hopefully you can understand this?
If not best pop your foil hat/ dunce cap back on.

Your whole disaster scenario fixation is also bizarre in the extreme - but then it fits with the conspiracy theory nonsense you’ve posted previously.

[DonkeyApple]

Maldini35 said:

Ok - just to be clear - I’ll spell it out.

Both ICE and EV cars are useless in a natural disaster scenario if you forget to fill up the tank or charge the battery.
So your point that you would not buy an EV just in case of some apocalyptic event does not make sense (because an ICE car would be similarly useless if not filled up).

Hopefully you can understand this?
If not best pop your foil hat/ dunce cap back on.

Your whole disaster scenario fixation is also bizarre in the extreme - but then it fits with the conspiracy theory nonsense you’ve posted previously.

It’s quite complex to imagine that in Britain there are men who make sure their car is brimming with fuel every evening just in case that massive volcano erupts in the early hours of that specific morning.

It’s surely easier, cheaper, more eco and much more relaxing to just live next door to a prepper who is shorter than you and allergic to a big stick across the temple as he is staggering to his armoured and brimmed SUV, dragging his enormous go bag?

[RacerMike]

Paddy_N_Murphy said:

Robert-nszl1 said:

Call me cynical, but isn't that a bit like believing VW emissions data? Manufacturers make all sorts of claims, I'm merely linking it with my phone experience. I struggle to believe that Samsung or iPhone battery tech is that different, yet we all know they degrade much more quickly than that.

The car battery tech - and use / conditioning is totally different.

It’s not so much the battery management and conditioning, but the use case. A long Range battery has a peak current draw capability of 800-1000A at full load. The reality is, most day to day driving will probably see circa 50-100A max, so you’re drawing power out of the pack at a way lower rate than it’s designed for.

Your non brand specific smart phone has a peak load capability which isn’t a great deal higher than the constant power draw. So the EV pack may only run routinely at 5-10% of its peak load capability, vs 50% or more for your phone. Since it’s the discharge and recharge rate that effects life so much, you actually find that degradation on the EV battery is tiny due to the low stress during 99% of its life. If you constantly used the car for circuit racing though, that’s a different story...

[J4CKO]

DonkeyApple said:

Maldini35 said:

Ok - just to be clear - I’ll spell it out.

Both ICE and EV cars are useless in a natural disaster scenario if you forget to fill up the tank or charge the battery.
So your point that you would not buy an EV just in case of some apocalyptic event does not make sense (because an ICE car would be similarly useless if not filled up).

Hopefully you can understand this?
If not best pop your foil hat/ dunce cap back on.

Your whole disaster scenario fixation is also bizarre in the extreme - but then it fits with the conspiracy theory nonsense you’ve posted previously.

It’s quite complex to imagine that in Britain there are men who make sure their car is brimming with fuel every evening just in case that massive volcano erupts in the early hours of that specific morning.

I must admit that I try to not get into a situation where all the cars are low on fuel, it kind of works itself out, we have four cars in the household.

However, I would be more diligent if I had one, you never know what may crop up, had to do an early morning dash to Stepping Hill Hospital a while back as my father in law took ill, and subsequently died, not that we could make any difference to the outcome but you dont want to be pissing about with trying to get fuel when under duress.

Then there is always the chance you may have to take someone to hospital, calling an ambulance is more likely but better to have options.

For me, its just a case of leaving maybe 40/50 miles which is what I can get from when the light comes on, so it sort of sorts itself out.

Worst comes to the worst, would just borrow a car off a neighbour or something, its pretty low on the agenda though, most emergencies would be covered and if its more than 40/50 miles you are probably not going to get there anyway.

[E65Ross]

Paddy_N_Murphy said:

What about if your commute was 11hrs a day at 149mph?

We’ve established if they can’t do that with ease, they will never catch on.

I'm all for electric cars, they certainly have their place. They certainly aren't for the masses, at least not yet. People who live in areas where parking is difficult would find it a bit more difficult, for example. Those who occasionally use their car for long trips may also find it off-putting (I usually go on a UK holiday once per year which can involve a 300+ mile trip in a day. Whilst it'd work fine for the other 99+% of the time, it would be irritating to not have it necessarily work for that occasion. Renting a car for a week is bloody expensive, which would be not only an inconvenience but also offset a huge amount of the fuel savings.

I'd personally like one, as they were really well for most of my use, but I can sometimes struggle to park right outside my house, so that may be an issue. If they can bring in charging stations which can see me fully charged in around 20 mins or so, I'd be tempted in the future.