RE: Renault Megane R26.R: Spotted

[Kev_Mk3]

I keep looking at these as I am in a position to buy one but i'd want it standard and mint which I cant seem to find

[LaurasOtherHalf]

I wouldn’t actually have said the 26.R rides harshly/hard/crash or whatever-at all.

Cars I owned around the same time that were stiffly sprung;
M3csl (harder)
Exige (harder)
993rs lookalike (harder but magical-was on aftermarket set up however)
Z4 M-Coupe (harder)

The R26.R was softer than all the above, I guess with a fundamentally flawed chassis it has to be in order to generate it’s grip on road legal tyres.

Maybe it’s the hard shelled bucket seats that make people think it rode hard? I mean they were hard!

I’ve only driven a few Integras and as they were already quite a few years older by that point I can’t comment on how healthy they were.

[Alpinestars]

LaurasOtherHalf said:

I wouldn’t actually have said the 26.R rides harshly/hard/crash or whatever-at all.

Cars I owned around the same time that were stiffly sprung;
M3csl (harder)
Exige (harder)
993rs lookalike (harder but magical-was on aftermarket set up however)
Z4 M-Coupe (harder)

The R26.R was softer than all the above, I guess with a fundamentally flawed chassis it has to be in order to generate it’s grip on road legal tyres.

Maybe it’s the hard shelled bucket seats that make people think it rode hard? I mean they were hard!

I’ve only driven a few Integras and as they were already quite a few years older by that point I can’t comment on how healthy they were.

Agreed. Damping was one of the first things you notice about the car - controlled and compliant. It’s got a similar feel to something like a GT3.

Seats were excellent.

Damping on the DC2 is not as sophisticated. But works.

[Ahbefive]

Alpinestars said:

You’re always so defensive aren’t you. And it doesn’t look like you’ve driven an R. No one I know complains about the “stiff ride”. Especially when we’re comparing it to other hot hatches, or a plain vanilla 26.

I’ll just leave it there and you can carry on about how good your car is.

I'm defensive for rubbishing your points? Ok then.

Like I said it seems I have driven more mileage in both cars than you who owned one for years yet apparently barely drove it. Makes sense.

[greenarrow]

s m said:

braddo said:

greenarrow said:

Whenever we get a thread like this, It always seems to be derailed by DC2 fans who have a rose tinted view of their favourite car. The R26 will much faster than a DC2, the R26-R even more so. Not being funny, but when it was new, the DC2 was used in a number of UK magazine track day features and the results were not exactly amazing. It couldn't beat an E46 328i around Silverstone and failed to beat a phase one Clio 172 around Pembrey. It was also 2 seconds behind a bog standard UK Impreza Turbo at Castle Combe and in another feature was only 0.7 secs ahead of a 106 GTI (all of 120BHP) at Castle Combe. So it hasn't a chance against either of the R26s.

I found some lap times on Fastest Laps.com. Hockenheim for example, the standard R26 F1's time beats the DC2 by 2.5 seconds. At Bruntingthorpe the R26F1 was faster than a BMW 335i and 2 seconds ahead of a Honda S2000. The R26-R beat a 300BHP prodrive Impreza at Bruntingthorpe and its Top Gear lap time beats the EVO 8 FQ300, an Impreza WRX STI and has only been beaten by one hot hatch I believe, a 265 Trophy. I doubt the DC2 would beat the EP3 Top Gear lap time, frankly, which is nearly 5 secs slower.

So, there really is a noticeable difference......

A noticeable difference in tyres......

The DC2 Integra was only on little 195/55/15 road tyres whereas I would think all the Megane's times are on the R888s?

Put some 17 inch wheels on a DC2 (or DC5 for that matter) with R888s or Cup2 tyres and it would be interesting to see how close it gets to the Megane.

I think the Type-R Integra comparison will always be valid - it was by far the most hard core FWD car until the R26.R came along.

Being a RWD fan I don't have a dog in this fight. But I have lots of respect for the people who make these cars.

Also points up how good the little 106Gti/Saxo VTS is - on even skinnier tyres than the DC2 but hot on its heels.

You can see why they were so highly rated

Totally agree with both points. The only whole in the argument in the first post, is that the Impreza Turbo ragged around Thruxton by Tiff Needell in 1997 was on 15 inch wheels too, yet still beat the Integra by 2 seconds. Also, in the period road tests I quoted, the rival cars were also handicapped by the wheels and tyre technology of the time but gave the ITR a hard time.

I agree that it would be interesting to compare an Integra on modern wheels and tyres with say, a Renaultsport Megane, as I believe a lot of modern improvements in track times can be put down to the tyres - but would it then spoil the balance that makes the ITR special? The point I was trying to make I guess, was that owners of these cars should not expect their 20 year old machines, as stock, to be able to keep up with the Renaults that are ten years newer.

I loved our 205 GTI which we owned until only 4 years ago. It was the most involving car to drive we've ever owned, but I was realistic about it. Around the track, the newer hot hatches would have murdered it!!

BTW, yesterday morning as I went for my morning walk, a white UK edition DC2 drove past and I must admit, I just felt feelings of lust and want!!! So, don't me wrong, I do love these cars.

[BrotherMouzone]

greenarrow said:

s m said:

braddo said:

greenarrow said:

Whenever we get a thread like this, It always seems to be derailed by DC2 fans who have a rose tinted view of their favourite car. The R26 will much faster than a DC2, the R26-R even more so. Not being funny, but when it was new, the DC2 was used in a number of UK magazine track day features and the results were not exactly amazing. It couldn't beat an E46 328i around Silverstone and failed to beat a phase one Clio 172 around Pembrey. It was also 2 seconds behind a bog standard UK Impreza Turbo at Castle Combe and in another feature was only 0.7 secs ahead of a 106 GTI (all of 120BHP) at Castle Combe. So it hasn't a chance against either of the R26s.

I found some lap times on Fastest Laps.com. Hockenheim for example, the standard R26 F1's time beats the DC2 by 2.5 seconds. At Bruntingthorpe the R26F1 was faster than a BMW 335i and 2 seconds ahead of a Honda S2000. The R26-R beat a 300BHP prodrive Impreza at Bruntingthorpe and its Top Gear lap time beats the EVO 8 FQ300, an Impreza WRX STI and has only been beaten by one hot hatch I believe, a 265 Trophy. I doubt the DC2 would beat the EP3 Top Gear lap time, frankly, which is nearly 5 secs slower.

So, there really is a noticeable difference......

A noticeable difference in tyres......

The DC2 Integra was only on little 195/55/15 road tyres whereas I would think all the Megane's times are on the R888s?

Put some 17 inch wheels on a DC2 (or DC5 for that matter) with R888s or Cup2 tyres and it would be interesting to see how close it gets to the Megane.

I think the Type-R Integra comparison will always be valid - it was by far the most hard core FWD car until the R26.R came along.

Being a RWD fan I don't have a dog in this fight. But I have lots of respect for the people who make these cars.

Also points up how good the little 106Gti/Saxo VTS is - on even skinnier tyres than the DC2 but hot on its heels.

You can see why they were so highly rated

Totally agree with both points. The only whole in the argument in the first post, is that the Impreza Turbo ragged around Thruxton by Tiff Needell in 1997 was on 15 inch wheels too, yet still beat the Integra by 2 seconds. Also, in the period road tests I quoted, the rival cars were also handicapped by the wheels and tyre technology of the time but gave the ITR a hard time.

I agree that it would be interesting to compare an Integra on modern wheels and tyres with say, a Renaultsport Megane, as I believe a lot of modern improvements in track times can be put down to the tyres - but would it then spoil the balance that makes the ITR special? The point I was trying to make I guess, was that owners of these cars should not expect their 20 year old machines, as stock, to be able to keep up with the Renaults that are ten years newer.

I loved our 205 GTI which we owned until only 4 years ago. It was the most involving car to drive we've ever owned, but I was realistic about it. Around the track, the newer hot hatches would have murdered it!!

BTW, yesterday morning as I went for my morning walk, a white UK edition DC2 drove past and I must admit, I just felt feelings of lust and want!!! So, don't me wrong, I do love these cars.

You can’t really blame the so called ‘DC2 fanboi’ for bringing the DC2 into the discussion, can you? Afterall both R26R and DC2 are the road racers at the top of their game in their respected eras, the ‘GT3’ of FWDs.

Nobody in this thread suggested the DC2 would be faster than R26/R26.R though. In fact nobody brought ‘lap time’ into the discussion until you did.

The DC2 might not be the fastest, but it sure is fun. As a package for a driver’s car it’s hard to beat; the sharp gearchange, the adjustable handling, the compliant ride thanks to the small wheels / tall tyres, the exciting and reliable engine, the great brakes, the Recaro seats, the lack of sound deadening, the lack of weight, and the LSD. Especially the LSD. Try it on track and getting the LSD to work, or try it on road coming out of roundabout keeping it in 2nd and floor it. It’s spectacular; it’s so much fun it’s magical.

I like fast Renaults (Clio Williams/Trophy, 250/265/275/Trophy-R), and I love R26.R. In fact I had considered buying one a few years ago but decided running two FWD ‘road racers’ would be a bit much, so went the Porsche route.

What is the point of forum if not for owners of different vehicles offering their views?

But certainly no ‘rose tinted view’ from me.

[Koolkat969]

BrotherMouzone said:

You can’t really blame the so called ‘DC2 fanboi’ for bringing the DC2 into the discussion, can you? Afterall both R26R and DC2 are the road racers at the top of their game in their respected eras, the ‘GT3’ of FWDs.

Nobody in this thread suggested the DC2 would be faster than R26/R26.R though. In fact nobody brought ‘lap time’ into the discussion until you did.

The DC2 might not be the fastest, but it sure is fun. As a package for a driver’s car it’s hard to beat; the sharp gearchange, the adjustable handling, the compliant ride thanks to the small wheels / tall tyres, the exciting and reliable engine, the great brakes, the Recaro seats, the lack of sound deadening, the lack of weight, and the LSD. Especially the LSD. Try it on track and getting the LSD to work, or try it on road coming out of roundabout keeping it in 2nd and floor it. It’s spectacular; it’s so much fun it’s magical.

I like fast Renaults (Clio Williams/Trophy, 250/265/275/Trophy-R), and I love R26.R. In fact I had considered buying one a few years ago but decided running two FWD ‘road racers’ would be a bit much, so went the Porsche route.

What is the point of forum if not for owners of different vehicles offering their views?

But certainly no ‘rose tinted view’ from me.

Never driven a GT3 but own DC2. As someone who has experienced both, how would you explain the similarities between both of them as I've come across these references on a few occasions of the DC2 being like a GT3. I know it's nothing to do with speed so I'm guessing lightness of chassis, rawness, something on those lines and more. Would that be correct?

[Alpinestars]

Koolkat969 said:

Never driven a GT3 but own DC2. As someone who has experienced both, how would you explain the similarities between both of them as I've come across these references on a few occasions of the DC2 being like a GT3. I know it's nothing to do with speed so I'm guessing lightness of chassis, rawness, something on those lines and more. Would that be correct?

I’d say it feels nothing like a GT3. The R26R did a bit, because of a similar damping feel, and aesthetically, 2 seats, a cage, poly windows (vs RS) etc.

There are some similarities between a DC2 and GT3, but the feel, is very different. Eg, a revy engine, but with a completely different feel. They both sound good, but different, they both steer well, but again, different, and they both have great gearboxes, and you guessed it, different. The reason for the comparison is probably that they are both brilliant, focussed, drivers’ cars

The only area where I’d say the DC2 and 26R are similar, would be the diff. They are both very effective, but much more analogue and mechanical feeling in the DC2.

[Koolkat969]

Alpinestars said:

I’d say it feels nothing like a GT3. The R26R did a bit, because of a similar damping feel, and aesthetically, 2 seats, a cage, poly windows (vs RS) etc.

There are some similarities between a DC2 and GT3, but the feel, is very different. Eg, a revy engine, but with a completely different feel. They both sound good, but different, they both steer well, but again, different, and they both have great gearboxes, and you guessed it, different. The reason for the comparison is probably that they are both brilliant, focussed, drivers’ cars

The only area where I’d say the DC2 and 26R are similar, would be the diff. They are both very effective, but much more analogue and mechanical feeling in the DC2.

Cool! Thank you for explaining that in more detail. I didn't want to be jumping to the wrong conclusions in my mind without getting a better understanding of what the comparisons actually meant. Hopefully one day I'll get the chance to drive a 911 GT3 and experience that specialness as well.......my dream car. In the meantime, the DC2 will do just fine!

[BrotherMouzone]

Koolkat969 said:

Cool! Thank you for explaining that in more detail. I didn't want to be jumping to the wrong conclusions in my mind without getting a better understanding of what the comparisons actually meant. Hopefully one day I'll get the chance to drive a 911 GT3 and experience that specialness as well.......my dream car. In the meantime, the DC2 will do just fine!

Alpinestars has a lot more experience than me as I’m a fairly new to GT3 ownership, so I would trust his assessment. Both superb drivers’ cars.

One thing to add though, I’d describe my 3.6 GT3 engine as a big VTEC engine. Both will need revs to get moving (though less on the GT3 cos of torque/larger capacity), the GT3 gets a VTEC Y0! at 5k and the DC2 at 5.8k.

Interestingly:
DC2: 1.8L, 187bhp, 131lb/ft
GT3: 3.6L, 375bhp, 284lb/ft

Basically double the B18!

[Koolkat969]

BrotherMouzone said:

Alpinestars has a lot more experience than me as I’m a fairly new to GT3 ownership, so I would trust his assessment. Both superb drivers’ cars.

One thing to add though, I’d describe my 3.6 GT3 engine as a big VTEC engine. Both will need revs to get moving (though less on the GT3 cos of torque/larger capacity), the GT3 gets a VTEC Y0! at 5k and the DC2 at 5.8k.

Interestingly:
DC2: 1.8L, 187bhp, 131lb/ft
GT3: 3.6L, 375bhp, 284lb/ft

Basically double the B18!

Thanks for the additional info. The fact you have to rev them out is exactly what i love about these cars and their fantastic NA engines. Enjoy

[artdealer]

One or two fair appraisals here from enthusiasts who have owned and driven R26.R many miles, plus owned the cars they are usually compared with (as I have). But years go by between forum threads and the same old tosh is trotted out by keyboard warriors who have never owned one, driven one or understand that every time you drive one it is an event. As a fast road car they're great fun, so nimble and with 184bhp/ton standard fast enough point-to-point. A ten year old hot hatchback isn't going to win a Top Trumps competition, but pretty good they can hold their own a decade later shows what an effort Renaultsport put in producing it in the first place. The fact you could match cars 4x the price around the Nbg is a bonus. Price-wise this one is OTT but when you look at what these ubiquitous 'warehouse modern classic specialists' seem to get for lesser cars £25K would be reasonable for this (and a little profit for the owner) if you were keeping it. By the way I've bought and sold no.002 twice and it's a nice unmodified car with AFAIK no previous repairs up to when it sold last time.

[Beedub]

Just spotted this and had to comment, i work in Detailing / PPF .... Had one of these come in recently and had NO idea how special these actually were....
Such an amazing car, and really incredible that they ever built it... i fell in love with the one that came in so much, i started trawling the Ads to see how much they were. This ended very quickly. lol. Very expensive, not quite sure i could spend 25k plus for a good one... But man.. the details on these are bonkers, the carbon bonnet, plastic wings, plastic windows even the massive back window... It got me thinking... imagine how good the likes of the fiesta ST would be with a similar treatment!

If anyones interested heres a video documenting its time with me, for a full walk around just skip to the end.

https://youtu.be/T26j4ShReUw

[tony dumble]

PaulJC84 said:

Lots of these go across to HK now. £ weaker so the demand is pushing up the prices.

Black ones are always cheaper too.

Would love to have a go in an R26r to compare to the normal R26.

I am lucky to own such a lovely car and have had people take it for a blast and there r26 are upgraded and made them light wait and still coment on how amazing the r26r is compared to there’s

[tony dumble]