RE: TVR production likely delayed by factory setback
Discussion
RedSwede said:
julian64 said:
I don't want to be negative either but if this is your idea of a refined honed car then the TVR never really was in your sights. One is a adrenaline filled driver experience requiring total attention and commitment to driving, and the other is a bland shopping eurobox, which my granny could drive to the shops. You might as well compare a motorcycle to a submarine.
julian64 said:
New 911? Sorry but I couldn't be less bored out of my mind, again, by looking at the exact same car all over again. Maybe it's a "perfect" car for the boring masses. But that's exactly why it doesn't even tickle a modecum of my interest.
My point wasn't really saying anything about the relative excitement of the two cars - I just chose the de-facto segment example. The fact is, that most people actually spending £80-100k on a car want something that has a certain sense of quality - refined and honed as my earlier phrase. A 911 may not be exciting to some peoples view, or perfect, but it is to any objective measure refined and honed.My point was that with these latest factory/parts revelations I fear that the overall offering will be so wide of the quality mark that at its price it will really, really struggle. With such a massively poor comparison on the quality front to any of its price-competitors, there will be very few people indeed happy with the trade-off. You are down to very small groups of people who can't just afford a £80-100k car but can so easily afford an £80-100k as to take a casual punt, or committed lunatics/optimists.
It will be a one trick pony with limited appeal and probably won't generate enough revenue to successfully develop the next generation car they will need very soon to keep TVR alive longer term.
Monkeylegend said:
It will be a one trick pony with limited appeal and probably won't generate enough revenue to successfully develop the next generation car they will need very soon to keep TVR alive longer term.
Couldn't agree more. Yes, some people will buy it if it is built. But it does not take a lot of insight to tell that this isn't the intro to another book in TVR's history - which is a real shame. But at best its a short chapter, and most likely just a footnote.Max_Torque said:
I also have to smile when people knock the 911 for being "too good" i mean, what did you expect from the worlds leading sports car manufacturer? Perhaps Porsche should take a leaf out of old TVRs book and deliberately make a few sh*t models to appeal to the people who think having a car that works is too much like a good thing?? (ah wait, perhaps that is what the 4cyl Boxster is all about....... 
)
I found the 997 was "too good" at pretending to be ordinary. And, yes, that's exactly what you want if you're using it every day to commute between Surrey and Canary Wharf, and it's an admirable feat of engineering to make it do that while still being able to pound round the Nurburgring at warp speed. I had a great deal of respect for it. I just didn't have an iota of desire for it. Clearly the Porsche formula is extremely successful, but they've got that market covered. It's nice that someone is doing something else for the rich weirdos who have different priorities. It will never sell in the volumes of something that essentially demands nothing of you but wealth to live with it, but that's OK. )
RedSwede said:
Couldn't agree more. Yes, some people will buy it if it is built. But it does not take a lot of insight to tell that this isn't the intro to another book in TVR's history - which is a real shame. But at best its a short chapter, and most likely just a footnote.
Is it a shame? I mean, if it turns out that there isn't a market for a TVR type of car, what does it matter if nobody builds them? And if there's only a market for a Porsche type of car, well, we've got Porsche to make those. Why is it a shame that TVR don't make something similar?Same with Lotus.
Tuvra said:
Having owned two of the above, I can confirm neither would "eat a GT3 for breakfast" 
Sorry but a T350 etc DOES eat a 996 GT3. Simple maths of power to weight ration. They have similar power and the Porsche is about 300kg heavier. The original poster said he had a 996 Gt3. Not a 991.... Never mind the factory setback stuff, lets have more of the my GT3 is quicker than your/any TVR - no it isn't - yes it is - your talking bo**cks - must be half term stuff It's properly entertaining... My car is half a second quicker to sixty than yours which must make me more manly/powerfully built/wealthy/a better driver/etc............ 
Jeez I hope none of us ever grow up
It's properly entertaining... My car is half a second quicker to sixty than yours which must make me more manly/powerfully built/wealthy/a better driver/etc............ Jeez I hope none of us ever grow up Europa1 said:
Nor did he appreciate the size of a full grown adult - I seem to recall Richard Hammond found the Marcos a bit cramped. What worries me is that from the Schmee video featured on here recently, the TVR looked a bit lacking in room - unless Les Edgar is a very big bloke.
Plenty of space in the new TVR - I've sat in it. I'm about 5 ft11 and quite heavy in construction. And Les actually IS massive! (he towers over me I reckon at least 6ft 4 or 6ft 5). RedSwede said:
My point was that with these latest factory/parts revelations I fear that the overall offering will be so wide of the quality mark that at its price it will really, really struggle. With such a massively poor comparison on the quality front to any of its price-competitors, there will be very few people indeed happy with the trade-off. You are down to very small groups of people who can't just afford a £80-100k car but can so easily afford an £80-100k as to take a casual punt, or committed lunatics/optimists.
I made a point not very far earlier actually that these are NOT new revelations at all. It's been known for several months now that the factory had been delayed by the EU. This article was poor reporting, and about 4-6 months out of date already. Yes the TVR is late, but no new revelations in this article at all, just someone spreading old news about the inter-web. Edited by RedSwede on Tuesday 4th December 16:09
otolith said:
Is it a shame? I mean, if it turns out that there isn't a market for a TVR type of car, what does it matter if nobody builds them? And if there's only a market for a Porsche type of car, well, we've got Porsche to make those. Why is it a shame that TVR don't make something similar?
Same with Lotus.
I think it is a shame - there is a (small) market for a TVR type car - fast, simple, V8, good looking, albeit not the last word in quality. I just don't think this TVR is that car - it is going to be nailed together however they can, as soon as they have a shed to do it in, and with parts from any old supplier that can deliver next day (probably RS...)Same with Lotus.
RedSwede said:
otolith said:
Is it a shame? I mean, if it turns out that there isn't a market for a TVR type of car, what does it matter if nobody builds them? And if there's only a market for a Porsche type of car, well, we've got Porsche to make those. Why is it a shame that TVR don't make something similar?
Same with Lotus.
I think it is a shame - there is a (small) market for a TVR type car - fast, simple, V8, good looking, albeit not the last word in quality. I just don't think this TVR is that car - it is going to be nailed together however they can, as soon as they have a shed to do it in, and with parts from any old supplier that can deliver next day (probably RS...)Same with Lotus.
otolith said:
rockin said:
otolith said:
It's nice that someone is doing something else for the rich weirdos who have different priorities.
Unfortunately there aren't enough of them to sustain a viable sports car company.Today's mainstream sports cars are excellent for the money and they set a very high bar. It's not like 1990 when TVR were the only sports cars on sale.
rockin said:
otolith said:
rockin said:
otolith said:
It's nice that someone is doing something else for the rich weirdos who have different priorities.
Unfortunately there aren't enough of them to sustain a viable sports car company.rockin said:
Today's mainstream sports cars really are excellent for the money and they set a very high bar. It's not like 1990 when TVR were the only sports cars on sale.
That would be a matter of taste, really. They're certainly very fast, capable, efficient, safe. By any objective assessment, they will be even better when they can drive themselves.GranCab said:
RiknRoll said:
Tosh. A 996 GT3 gets eaten for breakfast in a straight line by the Sagaris, Tuscan, T350, Tamora, and Cerbera.
School's out early today .....TVR lights up its tyres on anything other than a perfect surface, it's slightly better power to weight ratio let's it make some distance back up before the 911's better aero (due to actual time in wind tunnel) let's it disappear.
I bought the T350C because it was the fastest car in the 2003 Autocar track test (with doors). However that was when Tacuma Sato was driving on a track!
In practice in the hands of mere mortals who have actually spent their own money on the vehicle a Porsche is just so much more usable and hence faster.
A 911or an AMG GTR will be so much faster than a car built by a small team no matter how proficient.
The only way to make such an endeavour to stack up is to charge an awful lot more like Paganini or even Noble and even there they are struggling against the continuous development and budgets of Lambo, McLaren, Ferrari, Porsche.
RiknRoll said:
Tuvra said:
Having owned two of the above, I can confirm neither would "eat a GT3 for breakfast"
Sorry but a T350 etc DOES eat a 996 GT3. Simple maths of power to weight ration. They have similar power and the Porsche is about 300kg heavier. The original poster said he had a 996 Gt3. Not a 991.... I was going to write a full post explaining how it all works but look up Autocar 0-100-0 test from 2003. The 996 GT3 on the same day, surface and driver beats the T350C to 100 mph.
The 911 simply has better traction and aerodynamics. The more modern 911s are about a second quicker 0-60 than older vehicles with similar ptw because of launch control systems which mediate tyre grip, clutch slip and engine revs in a way a person simply cannot.
Around a track the difference is massive, the modern cars are simply much more stable under braking, have massive tyres and then get on the gas much sooner.
RiknRoll said:
Housey said:
I would never call my 996 GT3 bland, boring or something granny could drive to the shops. Quicker than any TVR yes, but never bland
Tosh. A 996 GT3 gets eaten for breakfast in a straight line by the Sagaris, Tuscan, T350, Tamora, and Cerbera. Not saying its a bland car, nor a bad one at all... just that it's not as quick as many TVR's. GranCab said:
RiknRoll said:
Tosh. A 996 GT3 gets eaten for breakfast in a straight line by the Sagaris, Tuscan, T350, Tamora, and Cerbera.
School's out early today .....https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
He can be a fanboy as much as he may like, make silly childish and ill informed comments, but facts will always outweighs ignorance. I used to run TVR too, but I have the objectiveness gene still in place and working.
Let me help....
1 7 adrian w Noble M400 23.49
2 16 LuckyP Ultima GTR 23.8
3 4 Yorkshire Porsche 997 Turbo 23.94
4 91 Mr Harris Lamborghini 24.03
5 6 jasonsear Nissan GTR R34 24.36
6 9 Blkrokt Porsche 996 TT 24.39
7 26 Twerlie Noble M12 24.64
8 11 Songman3 Corvette C6-ZD6 24.64
9 2 phatgixer Mercedes SL65 AMG 24.78
10 20 kenny0811 Porsche 996 Turbo 24.82
11 33 paulsearle Lambo Murci. 24.92
12 8 tinker27 Mazda RX7 24.97
13 46 cbj GD427 Euro 25.26
14 37 Mr Noble Noble M12 GTO3R 25.27
15 18 Brummiewedge TVR Cerbera LS2 25.32
16 5 DMC GT-500 Evolution 25.33
17 77 NickCCC TVR Cerbera 25.55
18 49 Housemaster Porsche 996 GT3 MKII 25.58
19 30 henna777 Porsche 997 GT3 25.58
20 69 daddysumo Noble M12 GTO 3R 25.7
21 10 acrman Viper SRT Coupe 25.72
22 50 nelly1 TVR Tuscan 25.79
23 31 Focused TVR Cerbera 25.8
24 47 grahamn TVR Cerbera 25.83
25 44 bigblockmark TVR Tuscan S 25.84
26 27 996TurboSean Porsche 996 Turbo 25.86
27 75 Andy RX7 Mazda RX7 25.86
28 21 Flea Fiat Coupé 20v Turbo 25.89
29 55 HarryW TVR Cerbera 25.95
30 32 keithyboy TVR Cerbera 25.98
31 1 Longbow TVR Cerbera 4.2 26.02
32 58 scooper TVR T350c Red Rose 26.03
33 42 KeithW TVR Cerbera 26.19
34 68 Wilder TVR Cerbera 26.21
35 65 pocty Porsche 996 GT3 RS 26.22
36 78 cupra3 Seat Ibiza 26.28
37 54 MadMark TVR Cerbera 4.5LW 26.33
38 51 kippax TVR Tuscan 26.37
39 38 FUBAR TVR Cerbera 26.42
40 3 N GTS Dodge Viper 26.49
41 79 Seasider TVR Griffith 26.55
42 41 satman TVR Cerbera 26.57
43 19 firesafetydave Mercedes E55 26.65
44 48 Funkster Noble GTO 3R 26.72
45 60 R8NAN TVR Cerbera 26.72
46 81 Byker28i TVR Cerbera 26.78
47 64 touching cloth TVR Cerbera 26.81
48 67 Cerberowner TVR Cerbera 26.86
49 66 Luckyone TVR Cerbera 26.95
50 85 VX220T VX220 Turbo 26.98
51 83 Katman TVR Cerbera 27.07
52 63 Timmy2TARs TVR Cerbera 4.5LW 27.09
53 76 toadusmodus TVR Cerbera 4.2 27.12
54 90 JaryJ VW Golf 27.13
55 35 TvrTone TVR Cerbera 27.15
56 39 big arm TVR Cerbera 27.2
57 43 AM04ARO Vauxhall Monaro 27.21
58 86 tbdgriffith500 TVR Griffith 500 27.23
59 40 XTR2Turbo Chevrolet Corvette C6 27.28
60 80 Olly TVR Cerbera 27.29
61 25 speed six TVR Cerbera 27.39
62 45 C8 CDS TVR Cerbera 27.49
63 61 Slarty Bartfast BMW M3CSL 27.53
64 82 maahny BMW M Coupe 27.63
65 62 Cyclone1 BMW 335D M-SPORT 27.68
66 53 Ben2 TVR Tuscan 2 S 27.74
67 72 warpig1 TVR Cerbera Sp Six 27.95
68 34 BLUETHUNDER TVR Cerbera 4.2 27.96
69 29 RussellM TVR Cerbera 27.99
70 74 buzz01 TVR Cerbera 28.06
71 59 jfk1958 TVR Cerbera 28.26
72 84 wfarrell BMW Z3 M Coupe 28.27
73 24 Morgan Monaro 6.0VXR 28.3
74 56 deerhunter Audi RS4 B5 28.37
75 70 RUF123 Mercedes E55 28.4
76 71 timberman Mercedes C32 AMG 28.45
77 23 v66len Holden Capa F-320 28.5
78 36 s4woody BMW M5 E39 28.53
79 88 NO.53 TVR Griffith 28.71
80 17 allblack Audi RS Avant 28.82
81 52 A GTS MG Xpower SV 29.05
82 87 Fatdad Hyundai 30.23
83 57 C3BER TVR Cerbera 4.5 RR 30.33
84 92 Andy Howarth Subaru 30.75
85 22 caretaker Audi RS4 30.93
86 73 Hollowpockets TVR T350 31.06
87 15 Michael Swift Subaru 31.09
88 89 toptotz Seat leon cupra r 31.31
89 28 Alex Harris BMW 330 31.94
90 14 Army Chap Peugeot 32.81
Nicks car wasn't standard, my GT3 was
So, you were saying
Edited by Housey on Tuesday 4th December 21:23
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