RE: TVR production likely delayed by factory setback
Discussion
Is PH turning into the DM? Swallowing the EU bashing, smokescreen bulls
t?
The EU really is in a no-win situation with British, EU-hating sceptics: if they didn’t have this rule of EU wide tendering then no doubt the DM would be running stories of how Italian firms were being propped up by the Italian government with subsidies (no doubt with the addition claim (ie unsubstantiated knowingly false accusation) that somehow the UK was funding the subsidy), yet if a British firm is affected by the sensible rule it is somehow EU imposed madness.
t? The EU really is in a no-win situation with British, EU-hating sceptics: if they didn’t have this rule of EU wide tendering then no doubt the DM would be running stories of how Italian firms were being propped up by the Italian government with subsidies (no doubt with the addition claim (ie unsubstantiated knowingly false accusation) that somehow the UK was funding the subsidy), yet if a British firm is affected by the sensible rule it is somehow EU imposed madness.
If they push production back to 2020 or further, they are going to hit the time when small series type approval really tightens up (not yet 100% confirmed, but we all know it’s coming).
This will require a number of additional safety tests to be done, a big one which could tear up the cars design will be pedestrian head impact.... from the images I’ve seen there is no way enough clearance from the bonnet surface to the chassis structure to meet the requirements of it... so... raise the bonnet line to have a chance of complying, then have to raise the driver to maintain legal forward visibility (looks on the limit currently), which means raising the roof line to maintain occupant package. All of a sudden a complete proportion and aero re-think of the exterior surfaces.
This will require a number of additional safety tests to be done, a big one which could tear up the cars design will be pedestrian head impact.... from the images I’ve seen there is no way enough clearance from the bonnet surface to the chassis structure to meet the requirements of it... so... raise the bonnet line to have a chance of complying, then have to raise the driver to maintain legal forward visibility (looks on the limit currently), which means raising the roof line to maintain occupant package. All of a sudden a complete proportion and aero re-think of the exterior surfaces.
Esceptico said:
Is PH turning into the DM? Swallowing the EU bashing, smokescreen bullst?
The EU really is in a no-win situation with British, EU-hating sceptics: if they didn’t have this rule of EU wide tendering then no doubt the DM would be running stories of how Italian firms were being propped up by the Italian government with subsidies (no doubt with the addition claim (ie unsubstantiated knowingly false accusation) that somehow the UK was funding the subsidy), yet if a British firm is affected by the sensible rule it is somehow EU imposed madness.
Remind me again how much of the French state is tied up propping up their own car industry? t? The EU really is in a no-win situation with British, EU-hating sceptics: if they didn’t have this rule of EU wide tendering then no doubt the DM would be running stories of how Italian firms were being propped up by the Italian government with subsidies (no doubt with the addition claim (ie unsubstantiated knowingly false accusation) that somehow the UK was funding the subsidy), yet if a British firm is affected by the sensible rule it is somehow EU imposed madness.
cerb4.5lee said:
It does feel like the longest car launch in history in fairness.
nonono. That goes to the current Honda NSX.So if I am reading this right, they failed to attract enough investment at the get go, so they glued together a prototype and put out flashy press releases with completely impossible deadlines to attract dumb money, and after that failed also, they turned to government money, but failed to read the small print.
Hm.
How many employees does TVR currently have I wonder and what are they doing all day, and who is paying their wages?
I think there will be a slow but growing realisation amongst the deposit holders, who continue to knock the doubters, that maybe their belief that all is well is somewhat misplaced and TVR have relied on their blind faith to drag them along this far.
The saying "It's time to wake up and smell the coffee" springs to mind. There is one prototype that LE has been swanning around in, and at the moment it seem likely that that will be the only one based on the current state of affairs.
I wouldn't be at all surprised to hear an announcement sometime next year that they have run out of money and are calling it quits.
I have owned TVR's, love TVR's want them to succeed, but the omens are not good.
AUTODESIGN will probably be back here at some stage saying " told you, but nobody would listen"
If none of the above is not true then TVR have a lot to answer for by not allaying peoples fears and allowing the situation to get to this stage.
Their PR and lack of positive communications and engagement of the deposit holders is truly appalling considering they have had a tremendous show of faith from 500 of them who deserve better.
Doesn't bode well for future customer service if they do actually bring the car to market.
I think there will be a slow but growing realisation amongst the deposit holders, who continue to knock the doubters, that maybe their belief that all is well is somewhat misplaced and TVR have relied on their blind faith to drag them along this far.
The saying "It's time to wake up and smell the coffee" springs to mind. There is one prototype that LE has been swanning around in, and at the moment it seem likely that that will be the only one based on the current state of affairs.
I wouldn't be at all surprised to hear an announcement sometime next year that they have run out of money and are calling it quits.
I have owned TVR's, love TVR's want them to succeed, but the omens are not good.
AUTODESIGN will probably be back here at some stage saying " told you, but nobody would listen"
If none of the above is not true then TVR have a lot to answer for by not allaying peoples fears and allowing the situation to get to this stage.
Their PR and lack of positive communications and engagement of the deposit holders is truly appalling considering they have had a tremendous show of faith from 500 of them who deserve better.
Doesn't bode well for future customer service if they do actually bring the car to market.
i was intrigued about the Ebbw Vale factory, so I googled it, and it seems it was previously the home of what was apparently the biggest green field new manufacturing site of it's time....TechBoard - a company that made hardboard - that flat board you buy in DIY stores - but Techboard's board it seems came out wavy !!!!
if you want to learn more -take a look at this: https://www.tredegar.co.uk/tech-board/website/pant... (there are a few tabs on left hand side you can click - this link is towards the end but is funny...
there are some bizzare stories (and some which make you think about whether the site is just jinxed !)
if you want to learn more -take a look at this: https://www.tredegar.co.uk/tech-board/website/pant... (there are a few tabs on left hand side you can click - this link is towards the end but is funny...
there are some bizzare stories (and some which make you think about whether the site is just jinxed !)
Edited by oilit on Tuesday 4th December 10:20
GranCab said:
History has a habit of repeating itself ....
And perhaps ironically, most of the guys working on that project came out of TVR after it went tits up. Sadly the American tech millionaire who tried to revive Marcos, also didn't appreciate the money involved to get a car from concept to production. Bit of a re-occurring theme....They are within spitting distance of supposedly producing, and they don't have a factory ready, or supply chain ready. People have already mentioned the small parts will be a big issue - but there's also the small stuff like working out how to build it properly, workforce training, reliability testing that can only be done on production units, etc. If anything is built within 12 months it will be a shonky mess.
I'm not here enjoying putting a downer on this - it's just the way it is.
Let's also think about the relative prospect of a TVR in its recent hey-day (90s) and now:
The 500:
Was around 1/2 - 3/4 the price of this:
It looked the business, was fast as hell, had a great interior for its time. So it did well. Just looking at the two there, the TVR looks like a real car, the way the 911 does
The new car:
Is roughly priced against this.
The 992 looks like a refined, developed, honed example of a car. The TVR looks like it was cobbled together in a shed. Without getting into any detail, looking at the two cars you can tell Porsche have been working hard at something they know how to do for 25 years. It looks like the TVR is a car enthusiasts DIY dream.
Sorry to be so negative...
I'm not here enjoying putting a downer on this - it's just the way it is.
Let's also think about the relative prospect of a TVR in its recent hey-day (90s) and now:
The 500:
Was around 1/2 - 3/4 the price of this:
It looked the business, was fast as hell, had a great interior for its time. So it did well. Just looking at the two there, the TVR looks like a real car, the way the 911 does
The new car:
Is roughly priced against this.
The 992 looks like a refined, developed, honed example of a car. The TVR looks like it was cobbled together in a shed. Without getting into any detail, looking at the two cars you can tell Porsche have been working hard at something they know how to do for 25 years. It looks like the TVR is a car enthusiasts DIY dream.
Sorry to be so negative...
Monkeylegend said:
Their PR and lack of positive communications and engagement of the deposit holders is truly appalling
This ^^^Today, thanks to the Internet and Youtube and ultra cheap high quality cameras and editting software, literally anyone could do some really pretty decent video based marketing from their bedroom. TVR could have bunged a couple of media students a couple of K, and bing, you'd have a near continuous stream of exciting development action covering TVRs "journey" from Dream to Reality!
And yet, what do we get? Well, nothing really, a few seconds of footage of the mule being driven occasionally and that's it. Hopeless imo.
RedSwede said:
The 992 looks like a refined, developed, honed example of a car. The TVR looks like it was cobbled together in a shed. Without getting into any detail, looking at the two cars you can tell Porsche have been working hard at something they know how to do for 25 years. It looks like the TVR is a car enthusiasts DIY dream.
Sorry to be so negative...
oilit said:
i was intrigued about the Ebbw Vale factory, so I googled it, and it seems it was previously the home of what was apparently the biggest green field new manufacturing site of it's time....TechBoard - a company that made hardboard - that flat board you buy in DIY stores - but Techboard's board it seems came out wavy !!!!
if you want to learn more -take a look at this: https://www.tredegar.co.uk/tech-board/website/pant... (there are a few tabs on left hand side you can click - this link is towards the end but is funny...
there are some bizzare stories (and some which make you think about whether the site is just jinxed !)
Interesting story. Sounds like those managing the whole thing were completely out of touch with the reality of making it. Seems quite apt given the topic of this thread!if you want to learn more -take a look at this: https://www.tredegar.co.uk/tech-board/website/pant... (there are a few tabs on left hand side you can click - this link is towards the end but is funny...
there are some bizzare stories (and some which make you think about whether the site is just jinxed !)
Edited by oilit on Tuesday 4th December 10:20
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