RE: TVR production likely delayed by factory setback
Discussion
julian64 said:
RedSwede said:
The 992 looks like a refined, developed, honed example of a car. The TVR looks like it was cobbled together in a shed. Without getting into any detail, looking at the two cars you can tell Porsche have been working hard at something they know how to do for 25 years. It looks like the TVR is a car enthusiasts DIY dream.
Sorry to be so negative...
The thing is, in today's world (like it or not) any mass produced car has to have Stability Control, ABS and airbags. All but a tiny minority also expect reasonable reliability and comfort. These 'minor considerations' may seem like little add on's, but as many have found out working for various OEMs, developing a car to be manufacturable, reliable, well damped, fun to drive, safe and desirable takes tens of thousands of hours, millions of pounds and hundreds if not thousands of experienced people.
Even TVR, back in the day, had plenty of people in it who 'knew' what made a TVR a TVR. It also had something to build upon, a lot less legal regulation and a loyal customer base. They have none of that, so to compete with a 911 on any level at all is many thousands of percent harder than it was in the 1990s.
julian64 said:
I don't want to be negative either but if this is your idea of a refined honed car then the TVR never really was in your sights. One is a adrenaline filled driver experience requiring total attention and commitment to driving, and the other is a bland shopping eurobox...
The catch is in the numbers- 100,000 keyboard enthusiasts excited about a new TVR
- 10,000 PH driving gods
- 1,000 PH driving gods who can actually afford a £100k car
- 100 car buyers who actually want and are ready with cash to buy a new TVR
- 10 people who've actually had a chance to get hands on the prototype
- 1 prototype
- 0 customer cars
RacerMike said:
julian64 said:
RedSwede said:
The 992 looks like a refined, developed, honed example of a car. The TVR looks like it was cobbled together in a shed. Without getting into any detail, looking at the two cars you can tell Porsche have been working hard at something they know how to do for 25 years. It looks like the TVR is a car enthusiasts DIY dream.
Sorry to be so negative...
The thing is, in today's world (like it or not) any mass produced car has to have Stability Control, ABS and airbags. All but a tiny minority also expect reasonable reliability and comfort. These 'minor considerations' may seem like little add on's, but as many have found out working for various OEMs, developing a car to be manufacturable, reliable, well damped, fun to drive, safe and desirable takes tens of thousands of hours, millions of pounds and hundreds if not thousands of experienced people.
Even TVR, back in the day, had plenty of people in it who 'knew' what made a TVR a TVR. It also had something to build upon, a lot less legal regulation and a loyal customer base. They have none of that, so to compete with a 911 on any level at all is many thousands of percent harder than it was in the 1990s.
But then again, you get the odd Minecraft moment.
Um - how is anything in that article actually news? Seriously, this is very poor reporting.
We've known for ages about the factory refurb delay for 6 months due to the EU mumbo-shmumbo.
Last I saw it had gone to tender, and work is to start very soon (Jan i think, but can't quite remember). TVR's original plan was to deliver cars for early 2019, but that timeline was moved back a VERY long time ago. TVR said themselves they MAY start production in their smaller development facility instead to start getting cars out in the second half of 2019, but everyone who's actually been following TVR's progress has known for a good while now that delivery was put back, and is most likely early 2020.
So why everyone here is suddenly getting their knickers in a twist I don't know, this article is 4-6 months out of date and really shouldn't be published.
Really whats happened here is that an american magazine has only just picked up the news and republished it for their readers, and this has been taken up by the interweb and re-bounced around all over again, causing everyone to get in a tizzy all over again, over something they got in a tizzy about a few months ago already!
We've known for ages about the factory refurb delay for 6 months due to the EU mumbo-shmumbo.
Last I saw it had gone to tender, and work is to start very soon (Jan i think, but can't quite remember). TVR's original plan was to deliver cars for early 2019, but that timeline was moved back a VERY long time ago. TVR said themselves they MAY start production in their smaller development facility instead to start getting cars out in the second half of 2019, but everyone who's actually been following TVR's progress has known for a good while now that delivery was put back, and is most likely early 2020.
So why everyone here is suddenly getting their knickers in a twist I don't know, this article is 4-6 months out of date and really shouldn't be published.
Really whats happened here is that an american magazine has only just picked up the news and republished it for their readers, and this has been taken up by the interweb and re-bounced around all over again, causing everyone to get in a tizzy all over again, over something they got in a tizzy about a few months ago already!
julian64 said:
RedSwede said:
The 992 looks like a refined, developed, honed example of a car. The TVR looks like it was cobbled together in a shed. Without getting into any detail, looking at the two cars you can tell Porsche have been working hard at something they know how to do for 25 years. It looks like the TVR is a car enthusiasts DIY dream.
Sorry to be so negative...
J4CKO said:
Maybe it is the truth, I really don't know but the way you put it just makes you sound like you want to see them fail, rather than just being a little sceptical.
There is often a smell round here of "anything which isn't German, and preferably Porsche, is s
t, overpriced, and deserves to fail". Housey said:
I would never call my 996 GT3 bland, boring or something granny could drive to the shops. Quicker than any TVR yes, but never bland
Tosh. A 996 GT3 gets eaten for breakfast in a straight line by the Sagaris, Tuscan, T350, Tamora, and Cerbera. Not saying its a bland car, nor a bad one at all... just that it's not as quick as many TVR's. A standard 992 S however .... Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. Maybe its more refined than the new TVR, sure, but who gives a monkeys. For £90k I'd take the new TVR every day of the week. It's lighter, more powerful, noisier, more raw, more exhilerating, far rarer and more interesting than the thousands of boggo 911's being driven about by boggo boring people in europe who've no idea how to drive anyway.
New 911? Sorry but I couldn't be less bored out of my mind, again, by looking at the exact same car all over again. Maybe it's a "perfect" car for the boring masses. But that's exactly why it doesn't even tickle a modecum of my interest.
Edited by RiknRoll on Tuesday 4th December 15:04
Housey said:
I would never call my 996 GT3 bland, boring or something granny could drive to the shops. Quicker than any TVR yes, but never bland
No one questioned its speed. Just its ability to stop you falling asleep at the wheel........or when looking a...t . .. .. .ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZjulian64 said:
Housey said:
I would never call my 996 GT3 bland, boring or something granny could drive to the shops. Quicker than any TVR yes, but never bland
No one questioned its speed. Just its ability to stop you falling asleep at the wheel........or when looking a...t . .. .. .ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZRiknRoll said:
Tosh. A 996 GT3 gets eaten for breakfast in a straight line by the Sagaris, Tuscan, T350, Tamora, and Cerbera. Not saying its a bland car, nor a bad one at all... just that it's not as quick as many TVR's.
Having owned two of the above, I can confirm neither would "eat a GT3 for breakfast" 
RacerMike said:
GranCab said:
History has a habit of repeating itself ....
And perhaps ironically, most of the guys working on that project came out of TVR after it went tits up. Sadly the American tech millionaire who tried to revive Marcos, also didn't appreciate the money involved to get a car from concept to production. Bit of a re-occurring theme....Europa1 said:
Nor did he appreciate the size of a full grown adult - I seem to recall Richard Hammond found the Marcos a bit cramped. What worries me is that from the Schmee video featured on here recently, the TVR looked a bit lacking in room - unless Les Edgar is a very big bloke.
It's hard to judge without knowing how big the people round him are (especially when they're racing drivers) but he does look quite a large chap.Tuvra said:
RiknRoll said:
Tosh. A 996 GT3 gets eaten for breakfast in a straight line by the Sagaris, Tuscan, T350, Tamora, and Cerbera. Not saying its a bland car, nor a bad one at all... just that it's not as quick as many TVR's.
Having owned two of the above, I can confirm neither would "eat a GT3 for breakfast" Today, all a TVR can offer is a "back to basics" or "Thrills n spills" type approach to appeal to a handful of mostly middle aged rich blokes (like me ;-) trying to recapture the excitement of their youth. And that, is a necessarily limited market by comparison to main stream sports cars.
I also have to smile when people knock the 911 for being "too good" i mean, what did you expect from the worlds leading sports car manufacturer? Perhaps Porsche should take a leaf out of old TVRs book and deliberately make a few sh*t models to appeal to the people who think having a car that works is too much like a good thing?? (ah wait, perhaps that is what the 4cyl Boxster is all about.......
)julian64 said:
I don't want to be negative either but if this is your idea of a refined honed car then the TVR never really was in your sights. One is a adrenaline filled driver experience requiring total attention and commitment to driving, and the other is a bland shopping eurobox, which my granny could drive to the shops. You might as well compare a motorcycle to a submarine.
RiknRoll said:
New 911? Sorry but I couldn't be less bored out of my mind, again, by looking at the exact same car all over again. Maybe it's a "perfect" car for the boring masses. But that's exactly why it doesn't even tickle a modecum of my interest.
My point wasn't really saying anything about the relative excitement of the two cars - I just chose the de-facto segment example. The fact is, that most people actually spending £80-100k on a car want something that has a certain sense of quality - refined and honed as my earlier phrase. A 911 may not be exciting to some peoples view, or perfect, but it is to any objective measure refined and honed.My point was that with these latest factory/parts revelations I fear that the overall offering will be so wide of the quality mark that at its price it will really, really struggle. With such a massively poor comparison on the quality front to any of its price-competitors, there will be very few people indeed happy with the trade-off. You are down to very small groups of people who can't just afford a £80-100k car but can so easily afford an £80-100k as to take a casual punt, or committed lunatics/optimists.
Edited by RedSwede on Tuesday 4th December 16:09
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