Haymarket agrees sale of PistonHeads to CarGurus

[giger]

Quote from CarGurus on the deal (apologies if already posted):

"Commenting on the deal, which is expected to be completed in early 2019, CarGurus chief executive, Langley Steinert, said: “PistonHeads is one of the UK’s most trusted and influential digital motoring brands, and we see it as a perfect fit with our own consumer-centric model and pioneering ethos. We look forward to applying CarGurus’ engineering expertise to unleash the full potential of the platform, while staying true to what makes PistonHeads so special to millions of motoring enthusiasts and car-buyers in the UK.”

CarGurus intends to operate PistonHeads as an independent brand, maintaining the site’s popular community and content, while applying its technology to enhance the site experience for users. "

Full article here:

https://www.am-online.com/news/supplier-news/2018/...

[JB!]

Improve the Classifieds functionality. Bin featured ads, all it does is frustrate people searching.

Discount classifieds to those of us who missed the free classified cutoff (i'm still salty on that one).

Encourage reader's rides, SOTW etc... That's what makes PH tick.

PH Trackdays, Sunday Services, Black Tie and Pie???

PH is THE UK enthusiast's website, the last big one left, and is a broad church, there are times when P&P needs a bit of a looking at (you, NP&E) but the car builds, house threads, movie reviews, food recommendations all make the place tick.

Engage with the community, turn up to Sunday Service, see what it's all about, and keep in mind that there are more people that use PH as a community than post on here.

[aeropilot]

Lemming Train said:

It just won't work and I'll tell you why. It's pretty clear from reading the post content that the bulk of the forum users are around 40 years old, a large number in their 30s and 50s, less in their 20s and 60s and virtually non-existent in their teens and 70s, comparatively. People in their 40s generally don't do social media like Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, "apps" and certainly not Snapchat, because they grew up in an era when every site had an active user forum and Facebook et al didn't exist. People in this age group like forums, they are at home with the relative simplicity and chronological layout of the content.

Compare this to Facebook, Twitter, Reddit and they're completely alien to them in terms of layout and usage. Unless you're active all the time you miss half of the posts because of the way they're designed to only show you content that the poster's mate has upvoted 300 times with his numerous sockpuppet accounts. If a post doesn't get any 'likes' or upvotes then an algorithm makes sure you never see it (eg. Reddit). Some would argue that's a good thing but I reckon the majority of regular posters here would prefer things in a simple chronological order as they are now, hence why these forums are so incredibly popular and busy. Social media-style layouts are not liked by this age demographic and it's probably the reason why Drive Tribe died a death within weeks solely because of the layout as they misjudged the age demographic of their potential audience.

This creates a huge problem when the site owners are only 'in it' to make money because old forum formats don't generate money. It's all about the apps and social media in order to appeal to the widest possible audience to generate the most income, but if you change the site layout you alienate and ultimately lose half a million site users, but if you retain the existing forum layout you can't make any money from it because everyone is using ad blockers and all your shareholders start jumping up and down and get all shouty.

Rather than being glad to see the back of Haymarket you really should be thanking them (!) for keeping the forum lights on, even with their niggling problems. They could have pulled the plug on them at any time but they didn't. I very much doubt that CarGurus are going to afford us with the same 'luxury'. They've made their plans and intentions clear and these forums do not feature nor fit in with any of those plans once you cut away the PR spin.

[NickCQ]

Lemming Train said:

Rather than being glad to see the back of Haymarket you really should be thanking them (!) for keeping the forum lights on, even with their niggling problems. They could have pulled the plug on them at any time but they didn't. I very much doubt that CarGurus are going to afford us with the same 'luxury'. They've made their plans and intentions clear and these forums do not feature nor fit in with any of those plans once you cut away the PR spin.

If that's true then it should be possible to put together a 'community buyout' of the forum.
There is precedent of forums successfully doing this (e.g. LFGSS which is funded by a generous founder, affiliate marketing, member donations and occasional merch like t-shirs, stickers etc)

The question then is what's the cost to keep the PH lights on?

[ZOLLAR]

NickCQ said:

Lemming Train said:

Rather than being glad to see the back of Haymarket you really should be thanking them (!) for keeping the forum lights on, even with their niggling problems. They could have pulled the plug on them at any time but they didn't. I very much doubt that CarGurus are going to afford us with the same 'luxury'. They've made their plans and intentions clear and these forums do not feature nor fit in with any of those plans once you cut away the PR spin.

If that's true then it should be possible to put together a 'community buyout' of the forum.
There is precedent of forums successfully doing this (e.g. LFGSS which is funded by a generous founder, affiliate marketing, member donations and occasional merch like t-shirs, stickers etc)

The question then is what's the cost to keep the PH lights on?

If there was a community buyout I'd be happy to chip in a small bit and a monthly subscription.

[Tyre Smoke]

Hmm, like it or not, without the forums there would effectively be no Pistonheads.

The majority of visits here are to read the forums in their current format. The fact that they aren't overly moderated is a further attraction.

To hive off the forums to a separate entity would be the end of Pistonheads. Petrol Ted started PetrolHeads as a forum for TVR owners and enthusiasts, it morphed into what it is today because of the people reading the forums.

[citizensm1th]

So said:

citizensm1th said:

So said:

Hub said:

Glassman said:

andy_s said:

PurpleMoonlight said:

Remove the 'quote all' function please.

Here here,

+1

-1

Agh, I hate tricky maths.

How was lunch at the cosey club?, it looks like i am being dragged to leicester for our annual traipse through the gutter.

Is it still ok for lunch?

btw the answer you're looking for is zero

There's a risk of appearing ungrateful here, and I don't want to do that because I value recommendations from PHers, which as a rule are very good. But there are exceptions to every rule.

It wasn't cosy and it isn't a club. They allowed me in without hesitation, which evidences entry requirements too low for any genuine club.

It was staffed by butch looking, nose ring wearing, waitresses in dungarees, for whom smiling was just too big a deal.

I ordered steak which may have been an error because I can imagine the staff holds the view that, "meat is murder". They had certainly murdered my steak, having prepared it only by removing the polythene and throwing it briefly into a flat pan. I could more easily have used it to re-sole my shoes than eat it, and the soles of my shoes would probably have tasted better.

My wife ordered something veggie, which was also oddly lacklustre.

The other diners comprised a sad-looking early Christmas party, who had long since given up on life.

Only the wine got me through the ordeal, which I had to fetch myself from the bar. Even once there, I had to wait for the barman to finish his conversation with a waitress before I was served.

We went to Carluccios for a second lunch about an hour and a half later.

It i probably entirely different at the weekend, when semi-naked ex-models serve haute cuisine. Probably.

But thank you for the maths tuition - do you do home tutoring?

Well its gone down hill from a year ago, sorry to hear your lunch was rubbish.
The maths answer my fault I forgot the smiley

[eybic]

Tyre Smoke said:

Hmm, like it or not, without the forums there would effectively be no Pistonheads.

The majority of visits here are to read the forums in their current format. The fact that they aren't overly moderated is a further attraction.

To hive off the forums to a separate entity would be the end of Pistonheads. Petrol Ted started PetrolHeads as a forum for TVR owners and enthusiasts, it morphed into what it is today because of the people reading the forums.

Sooooooo many people that use the classifieds/ read the news don't even know the forum exists. PH as we know it wouldn't exist without the forums but it would certainly exist as a classifieds platform. A lot of users will only register for Sunday services (I bet that at least 50% of the BMW attendees will have less than 6 months membership and zero posts)

[jon-]

woollyjoe said:

Lemming Train said:

People in their 40s generally don't do social media

Promise I'm not picking on you...More 35 to 44 year olds use Facebook than 18 to 24 year olds.





Edited to add that this is just UK users.

Edited by woollyjoe on Wednesday 5th December 15:13

Because facebook as lost its young audience to instagram (facebook owned) and snap.

I'm in my 30s and barely use facebook anymore, it's a dying social network (much like pistonheads)

[citizensm1th]

Shuvi McTupya said:

So said:

citizensm1th said:

So said:

Hub said:

Glassman said:

andy_s said:

PurpleMoonlight said:

Remove the 'quote all' function please.

Here here,

+1

-1

Agh, I hate tricky maths.

the answer you're looking for is zero

thank you for the maths tuition - do you do home tutoring?

I hope not because he is wrong
The answer is two.

Normally I would insert a parrot by it is my fault I forgot the smiley

[Lemming Train]

woollyjoe said:

Apologies in advance for shortening our posts... I think you explain the point well, but not maybe the way you expected.

Piston Heads (as supported by Google data) is already not working. In fact the data suggests it's dying. I stand by the feedback based upon PH keeping audiences and attracting new ones.

Yes, I hear you JPE , but stats aren't everything. My observations as a regular reader and (more recently) actual contributor here show me that the forums are plenty busy enough and I am not seeing any decline in the number of posts, contrary to what the graph says. Does anyone else feel that the post levels are declining? GG, SPL and most of the Pie & Piston sub-forums are my 'go to' places and I've not noticed any decline in the post numbers over the recent years and they seem busier than ever to me? Barely a minute or two passes until there's a fresh post to read.

But why should the stats matter anyway? If enough members wish to keep the forums as they are because they get a lot of pleasure and enjoyment reading and participating in the wild range of discussions then who cares what some trend graph says? A member buyout would be done purely to maintain the forums and community, not to turn into it an advertisement/revenue generating platform that every other media company wants to do.

[wolfracesonic]

Why is there all the hate for Haymarket around here, from my point of view I don't think the site could be improved really, click on Gassing station select sub-forum and join in the witty banter and erudition, all for free; granted the search function isn't the best, typing in 'cheap, reliable, economical runabout' led to me owning an M5 Touring but I'd be sad to see the place go or alter significantly. Does it look dated? dunno, seems ok to me, I'd be interested to see some specific gripes people have.

[Lemming Train]

NickCQ said:

Lemming Train said:

Rather than being glad to see the back of Haymarket you really should be thanking them (!) for keeping the forum lights on, even with their niggling problems. They could have pulled the plug on them at any time but they didn't. I very much doubt that CarGurus are going to afford us with the same 'luxury'. They've made their plans and intentions clear and these forums do not feature nor fit in with any of those plans once you cut away the PR spin.

If that's true then it should be possible to put together a 'community buyout' of the forum.
There is precedent of forums successfully doing this (e.g. LFGSS which is funded by a generous founder, affiliate marketing, member donations and occasional merch like t-shirs, stickers etc)

The question then is what's the cost to keep the PH lights on?

I really don't have a clue, Nick. It was why I put the question to akirk (as a techie sort) asking what the realistic costs of running a forum of this size would be to gauge the feasibility. I'm perhaps being unduly cynical here but I doubt that CG would release the forums and the database behind it for a member buyout without a very hefty price tag attached which would be beyond the reach of the person(s) wishing to do it.

[ferrisbueller]

In hindsight it looks lie Ted had his timing about right and Haymarket failed to fully unleash the potential of PH. Blatters was a decent concept but didn't get the engagement to take off - not least due to the fact PH still existed.

I hope Ted, or a like minded individual, is looking at this and sees the potential opportunity. I can't see it being left as is, if it is left at all. There would be a migrating population looking for a new home. With the right timing that could be captured and re-homed.

I don't know how many regular posters there are on PH - is it even enough to make that migration viable. I'd guess it would involve a four-figure number of people, but that is a guess, and I have no idea whether that drives the revenues to make a business work.

Ted?



Ted?



Ted?







Ted?

[Lemming Train]

ferrisbueller said:

In hindsight it looks lie Ted had his timing about right and Haymarket failed to fully unleash the potential of PH. Blatters was a decent concept but didn't get the engagement to take off - not least due to the fact PH still existed.

I hope Ted, or a like minded individual, is looking at this and sees the potential opportunity. I can't see it being left as is, if it is left at all. There would be a migrating population looking for a new home. With the right timing that could be captured and re-homed.

I don't know how many regular posters there are on PH - is it even enough to make that migration viable. I'd guess it would involve a four-figure number of people, but that is a guess, and I have no idea whether that drives the revenues to make a business work.

Ted?

Why do you (and others) want to Ted to start somewhere new? He sold out to Haymarket when it become worth something (and fair play to him) but history often repeats itself gentlemen.......

[PixelpeepS3]

ferrisbueller said:

In hindsight it looks lie Ted had his timing about right and Haymarket failed to fully unleash the potential of PH. Blatters was a decent concept but didn't get the engagement to take off - not least due to the fact PH still existed.

I hope Ted, or a like minded individual, is looking at this and sees the potential opportunity. I can't see it being left as is, if it is left at all. There would be a migrating population looking for a new home. With the right timing that could be captured and re-homed.

I don't know how many regular posters there are on PH - is it even enough to make that migration viable. I'd guess it would involve a four-figure number of people, but that is a guess, and I have no idea whether that drives the revenues to make a business work.

bueller?



bueller?



bueller?

My best friend’s sister’s boyfriend’s brother’s girlfriend heard from this guy who knows this kid who’s going with a girl who saw Ferris pass-out at 31 Flavors last night. I guess it’s pretty serious.

fixed that for you

[So]

citizensm1th said:

So said:

citizensm1th said:

So said:

Hub said:

Glassman said:

andy_s said:

PurpleMoonlight said:

Remove the 'quote all' function please.

Here here,

+1

-1

Agh, I hate tricky maths.

How was lunch at the cosey club?, it looks like i am being dragged to leicester for our annual traipse through the gutter.

Is it still ok for lunch?

btw the answer you're looking for is zero

There's a risk of appearing ungrateful here, and I don't want to do that because I value recommendations from PHers, which as a rule are very good. But there are exceptions to every rule.

It wasn't cosy and it isn't a club. They allowed me in without hesitation, which evidences entry requirements too low for any genuine club.

It was staffed by butch looking, nose ring wearing, waitresses in dungarees, for whom smiling was just too big a deal.

I ordered steak which may have been an error because I can imagine the staff holds the view that, "meat is murder". They had certainly murdered my steak, having prepared it only by removing the polythene and throwing it briefly into a flat pan. I could more easily have used it to re-sole my shoes than eat it, and the soles of my shoes would probably have tasted better.

My wife ordered something veggie, which was also oddly lacklustre.

The other diners comprised a sad-looking early Christmas party, who had long since given up on life.

Only the wine got me through the ordeal, which I had to fetch myself from the bar. Even once there, I had to wait for the barman to finish his conversation with a waitress before I was served.

We went to Carluccios for a second lunch about an hour and a half later.

It i probably entirely different at the weekend, when semi-naked ex-models serve haute cuisine. Probably.

But thank you for the maths tuition - do you do home tutoring?

Well its gone down hill from a year ago, sorry to hear your lunch was rubbish.
The maths answer my fault I forgot the smiley

As I said, I don’t mean to appear ungrateful. Suggestions are always appreciated.

For what it is worth the other place suggested was next door. There were two elderly people in there, one of whom might have been dismantling his hearing aid on the table.

I think the key learning point was, if you’re in Leicester midweek go for a chain and as near to the Highcross as possible.

The shops were also empty. In fact it was a bleak day.

[SpeckledJim]

woollyjoe said:

Apologies in advance for shortening our posts... I think you explain the point well, but not maybe the way you expected.

Piston Heads (as supported by Google data) is already not working. In fact the data suggests it's dying. I stand by the feedback based upon PH keeping audiences and attracting new ones.

Whatever that chart is actually measuring, it's halving every two years, with a pretty high degree of consistency.

Crumbs. Not long left.

(ok pedants, an eternity left)

[ferrisbueller]

PixelpeepS3 said:

ferrisbueller said:

In hindsight it looks lie Ted had his timing about right and Haymarket failed to fully unleash the potential of PH. Blatters was a decent concept but didn't get the engagement to take off - not least due to the fact PH still existed.

I hope Ted, or a like minded individual, is looking at this and sees the potential opportunity. I can't see it being left as is, if it is left at all. There would be a migrating population looking for a new home. With the right timing that could be captured and re-homed.

I don't know how many regular posters there are on PH - is it even enough to make that migration viable. I'd guess it would involve a four-figure number of people, but that is a guess, and I have no idea whether that drives the revenues to make a business work.

bueller?



bueller?



bueller?

My best friend’s sister’s boyfriend’s brother’s girlfriend heard from this guy who knows this kid who’s going with a girl who saw Ferris pass-out at 31 Flavors last night. I guess it’s pretty serious.

fixed that for you

It's all in the licking of the palms.

Or something.

[PixelpeepS3]

ferrisbueller said:

PixelpeepS3 said:

ferrisbueller said:

In hindsight it looks lie Ted had his timing about right and Haymarket failed to fully unleash the potential of PH. Blatters was a decent concept but didn't get the engagement to take off - not least due to the fact PH still existed.

I hope Ted, or a like minded individual, is looking at this and sees the potential opportunity. I can't see it being left as is, if it is left at all. There would be a migrating population looking for a new home. With the right timing that could be captured and re-homed.

I don't know how many regular posters there are on PH - is it even enough to make that migration viable. I'd guess it would involve a four-figure number of people, but that is a guess, and I have no idea whether that drives the revenues to make a business work.

bueller?



bueller?



bueller?

My best friend’s sister’s boyfriend’s brother’s girlfriend heard from this guy who knows this kid who’s going with a girl who saw Ferris pass-out at 31 Flavors last night. I guess it’s pretty serious.

fixed that for you

It's all in the licking of the palms.

Or something.

That's a little childish and stupid, but then, so is piston heads.