Driving standards...?
Discussion
MC Bodge said:
I don't know if driving standards are getting worse.
What I observe is that more people are driving fairly wide (by UK standards of recent decades) cars, very insulated from the outside, with little "feel" from the driving seat and often with tall rims/low profile tyres. Mobile phone use whilst driving is the norm,
You might be onto something here - modern cars make you feel incredibly safe. Cars from 20+ years ago (or less) let you really feel and hear the speeds you were doing and you were aware you'd end up with an engine on your lap in a crash, or someone's bumper in your face in a T-bone collisions. (I drive a TVR in the summer, so I still experience all those feelings :-) ). - perhaps that's it. People are so cocooned and protected they just dont' care. It would also explain why seemingly more than 25% of motorists just don't bother to indicate at all.What I observe is that more people are driving fairly wide (by UK standards of recent decades) cars, very insulated from the outside, with little "feel" from the driving seat and often with tall rims/low profile tyres. Mobile phone use whilst driving is the norm,
As for texting - I see so many lorry drivers doing it it makes me cringe, knowing what happens when they hit someone in a car. But like as been said, there are sod all police on the roads now. You can do what you like. I drove, inadvertently with no MOT for 6 months, all over the South of England.....
People are now so glued to their phones, people of all ages, that it is inevitable they won't put them down in the car.
Johnnytheboy said:
This was I was referring to above. Though I'm increasingly thinking that some drivers' drifting about is sending a "you won't get past me" message. A recent trend round me seems to be moving to the right after merging or coming off roundabouts, as if to prevent a non existent car getting past.
Also approaching roundabouts on the right and then getting to the left at the last moment, as if to prevent right turning cars getting next to you.
I find bad lane discipline on roundabouts a joke these days, it's almost a free for all scrum.Also approaching roundabouts on the right and then getting to the left at the last moment, as if to prevent right turning cars getting next to you.
I always try and position myself so that I don't have to make last moment manoeuvres, and people can see clearly what my intentions are early on. Trouble is, if you obey the road markings for your exit, you're probably in the minority, and will end up being cut up left right and centre.
My partner has been driving for 30 years, and she still gets confused at roundabouts! I've met some people who aern't even aware of basic rules like give way to the right.
It's a good point about cars being hermetically sealed little "living rooms" these days, with all sorts of warning devices and automatic gizmos, that IMO makes some people feel overly safe and invincible.
Edited by griff59 on Wednesday 12th December 19:16
Edited by griff59 on Wednesday 12th December 19:19
griff59 said:
My partner has been driving for 30 years, and she still gets confused at roundabouts!
That's pretty frightening - can't she get a bus, train or taxi?Edited by griff59 on Wednesday 12th December 19:19
If you can't get the hang of it in 30 years wouldn't it be better for everyone else if you accepted you just aren't up to it?
Johnnytheboy said:
This being PH, 50% of the first page will be people telling you either you are wrong or it's your fault somehow.
You are right though. Even the small subtleties of driving seem to be vanishing.
The thing I'm noticing is people no longer drive at a consistent distance from the kerb, but seem to veer towards the middle of the road and back, seemingly at random.
That’s what happens when the act of driving the car is number 3 or 4 on their list of what they’re currently doing. Normally on the phone, applying make up, getting the kids in the back to stop fighting. You are right though. Even the small subtleties of driving seem to be vanishing.
The thing I'm noticing is people no longer drive at a consistent distance from the kerb, but seem to veer towards the middle of the road and back, seemingly at random.
I just find people are more aggressive and in general don't plan at all and are "surprised" when something happens.
I mean I saw a driver drive straight into a boulder in a car park this week....she was driving a bit quick and turned straight into it.
I generally just give up now and am almost surprised when something stupid does not happen.
Oh and just to add Kent Police RPU caught 300 people not wearing seat belt Just in October...
I mean I saw a driver drive straight into a boulder in a car park this week....she was driving a bit quick and turned straight into it.
I generally just give up now and am almost surprised when something stupid does not happen.
Oh and just to add Kent Police RPU caught 300 people not wearing seat belt Just in October...
Edited by Ninja59 on Thursday 13th December 08:28
Pothole said:
I commmute between jcts 6 and 11 of the M6 daily and don't see that many accidents, considering.
It's difficult to crash, when you're stationary. 
In all seriousness though, I do agree that driving standards are falling. I blame it down to several factors:
- More vehicles on the road - less road space, busier commutes, less parking and so on.
- Less police - not only to enforce the law but to act as a visual deterrent.
- More and more cars distracting the driver,through connectivity - people faffing about with Apple CarPlay, faffing about with touchscreens finding a playlist or even those ones that can display text messages as you drive along.
- More and more cars "insulating" the driver, through vehicle design and driver assist aids - nice quiet cabin, radar cruise, lane assist, high driving position and so on. Because the car does everything for them and keeps them comfortable, they relax and switch off from the outside world, not really aware of their lane discipline or what's going on in their mirrors, who's around them and so on. I think it's drivers like these who end up across the front of HGVs being shunted along motorways, having spent a while casually sitting in their blindspots or having never even registered the fact that the trailer had a non UK plate, therefore is probably LHD and therefore sitting alongside is a poor idea.
- More and more people addicted to social media, having to check their phone at every set of lights or stop start traffic.
- Poor driver education - Look how many drivers creep past a Highways England patrol car thinking they're police, or stomp on the brakes as they pass under VOSA Galaxy parked on a bridge. Look how many drive along in L2/L3 under a gantry which has an asbolutely huge sign on it saying "USE HARD SHOULDER". Look how many can't even change a wheel. Mandatory retest anyone? Or at least some form of online theory retest every few years.
280E said:
Two bugbears that seem on the rise:
Cutting corners at junctions or on bends
An inability to keep close to the kerb on narrow roads - and general lack of positional accuracy regarding the car's width
This is so true, one of my big frustrations is people drive down the middle of the road leaving a massive gap on there left , especially when passing parked cars, no need for this the road is well wide enough , poor driving Cutting corners at junctions or on bends
An inability to keep close to the kerb on narrow roads - and general lack of positional accuracy regarding the car's width
I wouldn't say I see many accidents, because I haven't seen an accident in over 3 months now and I commute around 50 miles a day. However I do see a lot of lazy, dangerous driving usually to jump in front of 1 or 2 cars or to beat a red light. It seems people don't really care too much about surroundings these days, all we can do is drive sensibly and hope no one hits us!
Try riding a bicycle! It seems it is my responsibility to take evasive action to avoid being hit by drivers that are either too distracted (by their phones) or simply can't be bothered to see what's in front of their cars or give me any space on the road.
Planning, anticipation, caution, common sense, observation - what's that??
Any attempt to point out that they've just nearly killed me are generally met with a barrage of foul mouthed abuse, threats of violence, 'you don't pay road tax', etc.
When did the majority of Brits become such arrogant, ignorant, aggressive, self-centred pricks?
Planning, anticipation, caution, common sense, observation - what's that??
Any attempt to point out that they've just nearly killed me are generally met with a barrage of foul mouthed abuse, threats of violence, 'you don't pay road tax', etc.
When did the majority of Brits become such arrogant, ignorant, aggressive, self-centred pricks?
BGarside said:
Try riding a bicycle! It seems it is my responsibility to take evasive action to avoid being hit by drivers that are either too distracted (by their phones) or simply can't be bothered to see what's in front of their cars or give me any space on the road.
Planning, anticipation, caution, common sense, observation - what's that??
Any attempt to point out that they've just nearly killed me are generally met with a barrage of foul mouthed abuse, threats of violence, 'you don't pay road tax', etc.
When did the majority of Brits become such arrogant, ignorant, aggressive, self-centred pricks?
Noticing this too, albeit not to such an extreme as you in that I haven't been abused that much - maybe due to most of my journey being on cycle paths.Planning, anticipation, caution, common sense, observation - what's that??
Any attempt to point out that they've just nearly killed me are generally met with a barrage of foul mouthed abuse, threats of violence, 'you don't pay road tax', etc.
When did the majority of Brits become such arrogant, ignorant, aggressive, self-centred pricks?
Drivers going through red lights is a daily observation, at both junctions and crossings. Seems to pointless to me, as I inevitably come across the same car sat at the next red light.
Almost every day I see drivers on their mobile phones (presumably, given they're looking down into their lap instead of at the road).
Cars blocking pedestrians crossings whilst stationary is a frequent occurrence. How hard is it to wait until there is a gap ahead before moving past the green light?
Absent-minded behaviour, like trying to overtake me whilst turning left at a junction not anticipating that I'm going straight on.
Many cyclists are equally dim, riding with no lights at all despite it being pitch black.
I don't let it bother me but it's quite bemusing at times. Switching to a bike for my commute has definitely reduced my stress levels.
Edited by nmd87 on Thursday 13th December 15:03
griff59 said:
The driver of the Audi was in shock and couldn't move, the front of the car was smoking and I just gently lifted him out and propped him up on the grass verge out of harms way in case the car burst into flames.
That's a tough call - often the emergency services will cut people out of cars in that sort of situation to ensure that they can get them out without worsening any spinal injuries.280E said:
Two bugbears that seem on the rise:
Cutting corners at junctions or on bends
An inability to keep close to the kerb on narrow roads - and general lack of positional accuracy regarding the car's width
I see no problem 'straightening' bends when road is clear & there's no double-white lines, makes for a smoother transition.Cutting corners at junctions or on bends
An inability to keep close to the kerb on narrow roads - and general lack of positional accuracy regarding the car's width
No way do I hug kerbs when road ahead is clear, it's pothole territory & I value my alloys & tyres. In fact most journeys are more of a slalom course & I'm constantly having to swerve about, less so with a passenger(s) on board. Probably worrying for a following vehicle but then it's my wheels at risk not theirs.
otolith said:
That's a tough call - often the emergency services will cut people out of cars in that sort of situation to ensure that they can get them out without worsening any spinal injuries.
I think the car smoking is the problem here though and does make the actions more "sensible". That said whether I necessarily would in the first place go to a smoking car that looks like it could potentially explode/burst in to flames in itself is debatable that is why all track marshalls are told to wait for incidents to be over and equally not put themselves in harms way, the same goes for first aiders where putting yourself at risk is simply not worth as then emergency services could/would have more casualties to treat (DRABC/Primary Survey ....)
Ninja59 said:
otolith said:
That's a tough call - often the emergency services will cut people out of cars in that sort of situation to ensure that they can get them out without worsening any spinal injuries.
I think the car smoking is the problem here though and does make the actions more "sensible". neil-1323bolts said:
This is so true, one of my big frustrations is people drive down the middle of the road leaving a massive gap on there left , especially when passing parked cars, no need for this the road is well wide enough , poor driving
Except that it does offer some protection against people who throw their door open without looking, or pedestrians coming out between high vehicles. Defensive driving. If the road is wide enough, why not? If encroaching on the opposing traffic space, then I agree.
king arthur said:
Something I'm also seeing a lot of is people in lane one of a motorway using the on-slip at a junction to undertake a few cars, regardless of a) the legality of it and b) the traffic already using the slip road to join the motorway.
Saw a t
t in an A class do this yesterday afternoon on the Thanet Way, along the on slip at the Dargate services. 2 lanes of congested traffic with this idiot weaving from one lane to the next, and then he/she just got stuck in the queue at the Whitstable turn off. Must have saved all of 10 seconds on their journey. Had an interesting conversation with a colleague this afternoon and in summary he drove to London and back yesterday down and back up the M1, he recalled two incidents:
1- He was in traffic where lanes filtered from 3 into 1 due to road works, he told me how he queued in lane 1 while others were passing him in lanes 2 and 3 and filtering further down, he was incensed at how these people used the open lanes fully and didn't join the queue he was in.
2- He was driving up the outside lane at 70mph and was furious that a car behind him flashed headlights to request he move as he was driving at the speed limit, said car eventually passed him on the inside, he then had another car behind him who also flashed lights at him, he states he refused to move as he was driving at 70, unfortunately for him the said car behind turned out to be a Police car who turned blue lights on, he then moved and the Police car passed him.
He has argued with me all afternoon that he is in the right and everyone else is wrong
1- He was in traffic where lanes filtered from 3 into 1 due to road works, he told me how he queued in lane 1 while others were passing him in lanes 2 and 3 and filtering further down, he was incensed at how these people used the open lanes fully and didn't join the queue he was in.
2- He was driving up the outside lane at 70mph and was furious that a car behind him flashed headlights to request he move as he was driving at the speed limit, said car eventually passed him on the inside, he then had another car behind him who also flashed lights at him, he states he refused to move as he was driving at 70, unfortunately for him the said car behind turned out to be a Police car who turned blue lights on, he then moved and the Police car passed him.
He has argued with me all afternoon that he is in the right and everyone else is wrong
Difficult to say if driving standards are falling, in some ways no, in other ways yes definitely.
There always were numpties who drove around not paying attention, not signalling, and generally not looking properly. And there still are.
On the other hand I do see some drivers pulling stunts that you just wouldn't have seen years back. For example most evenings a set of traffic lights backs up and the queue extends past a right turn junction into a supermarket and continues over a pedestrian crossing.
It's now common practice for those held up in the queue to just blast past on the wrong side of the road, overtaking on the zig zags, and I do mean blast past. Presumably they don't realise it's potentially a disqualification offence.
However it gets worse, twice in the last month have seen someone blast past on the crossing, then instead of turning into the supermarket they've taken advantage of a no entry junction on the left to push through the traffic keeping that junction clear, through a small car park, and then drive down the pavement weaving in and out of the street furniture until the gap between a lamppost and BT junction box makes it too narrow to proceed further, at which point they jam back into the queue. Behaviour at those extreme levels does appear to be getting worse.
There always were numpties who drove around not paying attention, not signalling, and generally not looking properly. And there still are.
On the other hand I do see some drivers pulling stunts that you just wouldn't have seen years back. For example most evenings a set of traffic lights backs up and the queue extends past a right turn junction into a supermarket and continues over a pedestrian crossing.
It's now common practice for those held up in the queue to just blast past on the wrong side of the road, overtaking on the zig zags, and I do mean blast past. Presumably they don't realise it's potentially a disqualification offence.
However it gets worse, twice in the last month have seen someone blast past on the crossing, then instead of turning into the supermarket they've taken advantage of a no entry junction on the left to push through the traffic keeping that junction clear, through a small car park, and then drive down the pavement weaving in and out of the street furniture until the gap between a lamppost and BT junction box makes it too narrow to proceed further, at which point they jam back into the queue. Behaviour at those extreme levels does appear to be getting worse.
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