Has my insurer stolen my car???
Discussion
Seeing as the party at faults insurance will be paying I thought you could almost insist it gets repaired. Your insurer should be working for you.
Have you read this? https://www.moneyadviceservice.org.uk/en/articles/...
Out of interest what car is it?
Have you read this? https://www.moneyadviceservice.org.uk/en/articles/...
Out of interest what car is it?
This situation has always confused me.
When does your property legally not become your property in this instance? If he'd recovered it to his drive, could he still be relieved of his car at some point, ie it could be take a settlement or keep the car as is, but no option/obligation by the insurers to offer, a keep the car and part settlement offer?
If you have anything remotely rare or interesting that you'd either repair or part out etc then I would never let it go anywhere third party at least to start with.
When does your property legally not become your property in this instance? If he'd recovered it to his drive, could he still be relieved of his car at some point, ie it could be take a settlement or keep the car as is, but no option/obligation by the insurers to offer, a keep the car and part settlement offer?
If you have anything remotely rare or interesting that you'd either repair or part out etc then I would never let it go anywhere third party at least to start with.
ALawson said:
Seeing as the party at faults insurance will be paying I thought you could almost insist it gets repaired. Your insurer should be working for you.
I thought that, but our insurer wouldn't hear of it. I knew it would be marginal, but thought the car could be repaired. One thing I heard was your own insurer will guarantee the repairs - in LV= case that's 5 yrs - so that tends to make them less keen to repair as the car gets older.Sheepshanks said:
I *think* when you kick a claim off you give them the right to deal with it as they think fit.
Anyway, before suing them or wahtever you'd presumably need to go through their complaints process and then the Ombudsman - I don't think Ciurts like it if yur miss out available steps in the process.
The recent write-off of one of my daughters car was a bit of an eye-opener for me - once the car is out of your hands it proved impossible to regain control of the process. A PHer wanted it but the repairer told it it had already gone to Copart. When we found that wasn't true the insurer evaded giving us the price to keep it. This was a well regarded insurance company too - I'd hate to think what a bad one is like.
I thought this might be the case but seems like a very poor deal for the consumer, though this doesn't mean I am surprised...Anyway, before suing them or wahtever you'd presumably need to go through their complaints process and then the Ombudsman - I don't think Ciurts like it if yur miss out available steps in the process.
The recent write-off of one of my daughters car was a bit of an eye-opener for me - once the car is out of your hands it proved impossible to regain control of the process. A PHer wanted it but the repairer told it it had already gone to Copart. When we found that wasn't true the insurer evaded giving us the price to keep it. This was a well regarded insurance company too - I'd hate to think what a bad one is like.
I must admit I don't think id ever hand one of my cars over to the insurance if at all possible though I know its not always possible. In this scenario I think id roll over and just cash the cheque in no matter how disgusted I may be about it. Yet another reason to hate insurance companies!
Michaelbailey said:
I thought this might be the case but seems like a very poor deal for the consumer, though this doesn't mean I am surprised...
The thing that most surprised me - it's obvious but we've never been in this position before - is even though it was non-fault, once they send the cheque out (which they did without consulting us at all) they want the courtesy car back 4 days later. OK, if you've got spare cars kicking around that's fine, but we haven't and where we live there's no realistic public transport etc. So you're under massive pressure to get something sorted. LV= did agree that'd messed up a little and extended the car for another week, but it was a bit vague who was paying for that.Take it to the ombudsman if they don't give you the fair market value. They don't own the car until you accept the settlement and therefore have no legal right to dispose of it.
Plenty of cases where ombudsman finds in drivers favour in cases like this on the ombudsmans past cases section. Same with the retain salvage issue.
Plenty of cases where ombudsman finds in drivers favour in cases like this on the ombudsmans past cases section. Same with the retain salvage issue.
Psycho Warren said:
Take it to the ombudsman if they don't give you the fair market value. They don't own the car until you accept the settlement and therefore have no legal right to dispose of it.
Plenty of cases where ombudsman finds in drivers favour in cases like this on the ombudsmans past cases section. Same with the retain salvage issue.
You're generally talking about small amounts of money in reality. They won't accept that you think you could profit from the situation by repairing the car far cheaper than the insurer's estimate.Plenty of cases where ombudsman finds in drivers favour in cases like this on the ombudsmans past cases section. Same with the retain salvage issue.
Edited by Sheepshanks on Friday 14th December 14:34
dibblecorse said:
Also why would the garage offer you a quote less than 50% of the one issued to the insurers, surely that leaves them liable to all sorts of applications or did you ask for a lot less remedial work ?
Common practice.There was a small damage done to my car. I took it to the body shop that the main dealer uses and was quoted (for insurance) £4650. Took the car to the main dealer and talked to the body shop's rep who said "Ahh, this is a small job". Then I told him about the £4650 but he could not understand why this was the charge. Three weeks later the quote was reduced by £1000.
I talked with a friend who recommended a body shop not far from his home saying that he and some of his friends (all drive >£100K cars) have used this shop and with good results.
My access is £250.
The repair cost was £260.
Similar thing happened to me, insurer couldn't tell me where my car was, unwilling to return my car to me to a secure compound, unwilling to allow me to purchase my car back, all way to much hassle for them. In the end I got £1000 more than the car was worth back so I just bought a new car, the car needed about £1000 of other work doing to it anyway, servicing and repairs, so I came out ontop in the long run, but id imagine a lot don't.
But I feel for your situation, the way insurance companies behave with other peoples property is despicable IMHO. And the use of original parts is forcing perfectly repairable cars to be written off, the same way mine was.
But I feel for your situation, the way insurance companies behave with other peoples property is despicable IMHO. And the use of original parts is forcing perfectly repairable cars to be written off, the same way mine was.
I think insurance repair quotes are higher than the general public ones due to the aggressive nature in which insurers deal with repairers.
I know that similar to the supermarkets for example that once they know a repairer has a large % of its business reliant on insurance repairs then they can start reducing payments, query costs etc. all of which happens after the car is repaired. It stands to reason that a normal customer is less inclined to do this and has less clout over the repairer. Hence potentially inflated prices which they know a discount will be applied to.
I am still intrigued into what car it is!
I know that similar to the supermarkets for example that once they know a repairer has a large % of its business reliant on insurance repairs then they can start reducing payments, query costs etc. all of which happens after the car is repaired. It stands to reason that a normal customer is less inclined to do this and has less clout over the repairer. Hence potentially inflated prices which they know a discount will be applied to.
I am still intrigued into what car it is!
dibblecorse said:
Also why would the garage offer you a quote less than 50% of the one issued to the insurers, surely that leaves them liable to all sorts of applications or did you ask for a lot less remedial work ?
Common practice.There was a small damage done to my car. I took it to the body shop that the main dealer uses and was quoted (for insurance) £4650. Took the car to the main dealer and talked to the body shop's rep who said "Ahh, this is a small job". Then I told him about the £4650 but he could not understand why this was the charge. Three weeks later the quote was reduced by £1000.
I talked with a friend who recommended a body shop not far from his home saying that he and some of his friends (all drive >£100K cars) have used this shop and with good results.
My access is £250.
The repair cost was £260.
What do the terms & conditions of your insurer say?
No idea who you are with but a quick google of Churchill's T&cs say:
"What is covered
If your car is damaged, we have the option to:
pay to repair the damage or repair the damage ourselves;
replace what is lost or damaged, if this is more cost-effective
than repairing it; or
settle your claim by sending you a cheque or by bank transfer.
The most we will pay
We will not pay more than the market value of your car at the time
of the loss (less any excess that may apply)"
If your insurers T&cs are the same then they have decided the car is beyond economic repair - the price given to them by the repairer will be for replacement parts at MRRP & that will always be more expensive than alternative cheapie panels/used ones.
They have sent you a cheque for a figure they consider to be 'market value' at the time of the claim in accordance with the T&Cs which you accepted when you used them as your insurer & no doubt considered the matter closed & the vehicle theirs to dispose of.
An allegation of theft is going nowhere.
If you are unhappy with the figure offered then you need to take that up with them - get copies of autotrader trade ads as identical to your car as possible - & if that doesn't bear fruit then the Ombudsman would be your next step.
Going the ombudsman route is the long game. Been there.
No idea who you are with but a quick google of Churchill's T&cs say:
"What is covered
If your car is damaged, we have the option to:
pay to repair the damage or repair the damage ourselves;
replace what is lost or damaged, if this is more cost-effective
than repairing it; or
settle your claim by sending you a cheque or by bank transfer.
The most we will pay
We will not pay more than the market value of your car at the time
of the loss (less any excess that may apply)"
If your insurers T&cs are the same then they have decided the car is beyond economic repair - the price given to them by the repairer will be for replacement parts at MRRP & that will always be more expensive than alternative cheapie panels/used ones.
They have sent you a cheque for a figure they consider to be 'market value' at the time of the claim in accordance with the T&Cs which you accepted when you used them as your insurer & no doubt considered the matter closed & the vehicle theirs to dispose of.
An allegation of theft is going nowhere.
If you are unhappy with the figure offered then you need to take that up with them - get copies of autotrader trade ads as identical to your car as possible - & if that doesn't bear fruit then the Ombudsman would be your next step.
Going the ombudsman route is the long game. Been there.
I was knocked off my motorbike last year, no fault to me it was taken to a recovery yard and the insurers third party representative didn't go and recover it for 4 weeks, then declared it a write off and scrapped it, without telling me, without the V5, without the claim being paid out.
In fact I spent 6 months chasing Ageas over the claim as they were particularly slow because they insured both parties and had already repaired the other vehicle within 2 weeks. It was 3 months before I found out they'd scrapped my vehicle without my agreement etc.
I took it all through the ombudsman, over three months to do that, waste of time, it got me £100 inconvenience fee as they found the company had acted inappropriately.
In fact I spent 6 months chasing Ageas over the claim as they were particularly slow because they insured both parties and had already repaired the other vehicle within 2 weeks. It was 3 months before I found out they'd scrapped my vehicle without my agreement etc.
I took it all through the ombudsman, over three months to do that, waste of time, it got me £100 inconvenience fee as they found the company had acted inappropriately.
GrazedNConfudsed said:
So at what point do the insurers take legal title to the car? Without which, how can they legally sell that title to someone else?
Given it is a 3rd party at fault it is when you agree to it as them crashing into your car does not enter you into a contract with their insurers. The position is that they are responsible for compensating you for the loss caused to you by their client.... Worth pointing this out to the 3rd partys insurers, explain what you have lost, give them a break down of the costs and tell them their response will determine your next steps.Black_S3 said:
GrazedNConfudsed said:
So at what point do the insurers take legal title to the car? Without which, how can they legally sell that title to someone else?
Given it is a 3rd party at fault it is when you agree to it as them crashing into your car does not enter you into a contract with their insurers. The position is that they are responsible for compensating you for the loss caused to you by their client.... Worth pointing this out to the 3rd partys insurers, explain what you have lost, give them a break down of the costs and tell them their response will determine your next steps.Henzy said:
What car is it?
Did you get a chance to remove all personal possessions?
Did you own it outright or is there any finance or contract on it?
All possessions were removed, no finance. Did you get a chance to remove all personal possessions?
Did you own it outright or is there any finance or contract on it?
Don't want to put any identifiable info, but it's a small car, quite old, but with rediculously low mileage for its age, and very high spec list for its size/model. Hence the undervalued payout, you just can't get another like it for any money. And hence why I want it back and planned on keeping it for many years.
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