RE: M5 (E39) vs. M5 (E60) vs. M5 (F90)
Discussion
TheAngryDog said:
Welshbeef said:
Reality is today only the F10 could be considered a daily driver the E60 at its newest is a 9 year old car the E39 18 years ish. So the older era M5’s are for maybe a ring % of daily drivers the rest are 2nd cars/dream cars whereas the F10 can be run day in day out and appearently if drive it as you would on a flowing A/b /M way not congested driving 30mpg is possible whereas the older versions you’d be looking at maybe high teens if lucky.
I've had low 20's from my E60 and mid 20's from my E39. If only you knew what you were talking about. 
J4CKO said:
Its seems a strange omission but I dont think it was because its a bad car.
Personally I think the F10 is too close to the latest one - inside, outside and under the bonnet - to merit inclusion.I suspect the three that were selected were because they are easier to compare and contrast editorially (v8 manual vs v10 auto vs v8 4wd). Personally, i'd rather have seen an E34 in there too.
Incidentally, I drove an F10 M5 for the first time last week and came away truly disappointed. For me, an M-car needs to feel special at normal speeds, whereas the F10 just felt very heavy, cumbersome and far too quiet. In flowing traffic it may as well have been a 535d.
Talk about "never meet your heroes".
J4CKO said:
bmwmike said:
Is the f10 M5 really that bad to have not been included?
Its seems a strange omission but I dont think it was because its a bad car.Choice between including the F10 or F90. No point in excluding the new car people want to read about to include an old one people are bored of, if both bring the same comparative qualities.
A word in praise of the F10.
I have owned an e39 M5 for nearly 10 years (2001 facelift car, 80k) and after owning maybe 30 other cars in that time it’s - like everyone else says - ‘the one I would sell last’. They are expensive to run and maintain and I spend at least a couple of grand a year on mine. I’ve definitely spent more on it than it’s gone up in value! But it’s fantastic and brings a sense of occasion to every drive.
A few friends had owned E60’s and one had sent two back to BMW broken and another guy lived in terror of it going wrong (it didn’t) but it put me off - despite the F1 soundtrack. Gearbox blah blah blah.
I had always liked the F10 though and my plan was to keep the E39 until the values of E39 going up and F10 coming down met in the middle, then swap them.
Two years ago I managed one better and picked up a Main dealer F10 M5 with 25k and pretty much every single option, to run as a daily and keep the miles off the E39.
I ran it for 8 months as a daily and could not get on with it. Too refined, deprecating hand over fist and to be honest - dull. Amazing place to sit with all the toys but it never inspired you to wring it’s neck.
Then in a last ditch attempt to get on with it I took it round the north coast 500. It was MAGNIFICENT. So much power, and cliche alert ‘it did shrink around me’. So much grip, monster torque. I thrashed it for 700 miles (100 miles to the start each way) and after 4 days and 10 hours a day in it on great, sweeping and often challenging roads, I loved it. The group I went with took some tasty machinery but the M5 was colossal, leagues faster everywhere than anything else. I was having more fun too.
So yes, as a commuter it’s less special, but challenge an F10 and let it stretch it’s legs and it will show you that it is monstrously capable.
It pained me to sell it earlier this year. When they’re 10k I’ll have another.
I have owned an e39 M5 for nearly 10 years (2001 facelift car, 80k) and after owning maybe 30 other cars in that time it’s - like everyone else says - ‘the one I would sell last’. They are expensive to run and maintain and I spend at least a couple of grand a year on mine. I’ve definitely spent more on it than it’s gone up in value! But it’s fantastic and brings a sense of occasion to every drive.
A few friends had owned E60’s and one had sent two back to BMW broken and another guy lived in terror of it going wrong (it didn’t) but it put me off - despite the F1 soundtrack. Gearbox blah blah blah.
I had always liked the F10 though and my plan was to keep the E39 until the values of E39 going up and F10 coming down met in the middle, then swap them.
Two years ago I managed one better and picked up a Main dealer F10 M5 with 25k and pretty much every single option, to run as a daily and keep the miles off the E39.
I ran it for 8 months as a daily and could not get on with it. Too refined, deprecating hand over fist and to be honest - dull. Amazing place to sit with all the toys but it never inspired you to wring it’s neck.
Then in a last ditch attempt to get on with it I took it round the north coast 500. It was MAGNIFICENT. So much power, and cliche alert ‘it did shrink around me’. So much grip, monster torque. I thrashed it for 700 miles (100 miles to the start each way) and after 4 days and 10 hours a day in it on great, sweeping and often challenging roads, I loved it. The group I went with took some tasty machinery but the M5 was colossal, leagues faster everywhere than anything else. I was having more fun too.
So yes, as a commuter it’s less special, but challenge an F10 and let it stretch it’s legs and it will show you that it is monstrously capable.
It pained me to sell it earlier this year. When they’re 10k I’ll have another.
KPB1973 said:
Personally I think the F10 is too close to the latest one - inside, outside and under the bonnet - to merit inclusion.
I suspect the three that were selected were because they are easier to compare and contrast editorially (v8 manual vs v10 auto vs v8 4wd). Personally, i'd rather have seen an E34 in there too.
Incidentally, I drove an F10 M5 for the first time last week and came away truly disappointed. For me, an M-car needs to feel special at normal speeds, whereas the F10 just felt very heavy, cumbersome and far too quiet. In flowing traffic it may as well have been a 535d.
Talk about "never meet your heroes".
Don't agree with this. I did around 40K miles in my F10 M5 including many miles on twisty Devon/ Cornish roads and it didn't feel overweight. Incidentally I went from a 535D and there was no comparison to be made. I have an F90 now as my daily and it is similar to the F10 but really benefits with the new 4WD system and added bhp. I suspect the three that were selected were because they are easier to compare and contrast editorially (v8 manual vs v10 auto vs v8 4wd). Personally, i'd rather have seen an E34 in there too.
Incidentally, I drove an F10 M5 for the first time last week and came away truly disappointed. For me, an M-car needs to feel special at normal speeds, whereas the F10 just felt very heavy, cumbersome and far too quiet. In flowing traffic it may as well have been a 535d.
Talk about "never meet your heroes".
Jonny TVR said:
Don't agree with this. I did around 40K miles in my F10 M5 including many miles on twisty Devon/ Cornish roads and it didn't feel overweight. Incidentally I went from a 535D and there was no comparison to be made. I have an F90 now as my daily and it is similar to the F10 but really benefits with the new 4WD system and added bhp.
Fair enough, you have more experience of them than I do. Perhaps 'overweight' is the wrong term as it certainly didn't struggle for performance. But likewise the 2012 one I tried didn't feel light on its feet and the front end rolled a fair bit even in Sports+. It certainly couldn't hide it's mass in the corners.Similarly, I put 30k on an F10 530D, but my point was when you're not 'on it' the M5 didn't give me any real 'M-car' vibe. It was too quiet and isolating. I appreciate that a lot of people like that duality, but for me personally, I like a car that gives you a constant reminder that you're driving something special. When you're in the car, that has to include some visual and aural cues - none of which I really got from the M5.
I was hoping to try a Competition Pack car to see if it had a bit more of an 'edge' to it, but decided to go back down the E92 route instead.
greenarrow said:
What a great article to illuminate yet another ghastly wet and miserable Saturday morning!
Totally agree with the outcome, as an armchair enthusiast who has never driven any M5, but has experience of the wonderful E39 5 series, which just nailed the sweet spot for luxury saloons.
One question though, would the outcome have been any different if you had included a late 3.8 litre six speed E34? I only ask because many of the positive points noted on the e39 model if anything seem even more relevant with the E34, given that its even lighter, slightly smaller and with a more rev happy straight six.
Maybe a feature for 2019 PH? e34 vs e39 M5s?
Cheers! An E34 would be cool, problem for this one that BMW doesn't have one on its heritage fleet. Might be cool to revisit it soon as the 3.8 will be 25 next year... Totally agree with the outcome, as an armchair enthusiast who has never driven any M5, but has experience of the wonderful E39 5 series, which just nailed the sweet spot for luxury saloons.
One question though, would the outcome have been any different if you had included a late 3.8 litre six speed E34? I only ask because many of the positive points noted on the e39 model if anything seem even more relevant with the E34, given that its even lighter, slightly smaller and with a more rev happy straight six.
Maybe a feature for 2019 PH? e34 vs e39 M5s?
![](https://thumbsnap.com/sc/wlbhrU0c.jpg[/img]</a> <a href="https://thumbsnap.com/OYcMqCND" Target="_blank" rel="nofollow">[img]https://thumbsnap.com/sc/OYcMqCND.jpg)
ArmaghMan said:
My 2 in the above images.
Avus blue and Imola red.
Did over 100,000 miles in them.
Fantastic cars, but an itch that has been well and truly scratched. No desire to have them back, or to have another.
Mmm that sounds rather contradictory from my point of view.Avus blue and Imola red.
Did over 100,000 miles in them.
Fantastic cars, but an itch that has been well and truly scratched. No desire to have them back, or to have another.
I'd have another if I won the euromillions.
Absolutely love my E39 M5. I have had a few cars over the years. but hands down, it's the best all-rounder I have had.
Also have an E34 M5 3.6 in Macau, which is also a brilliant car, but light years behind the E39 in terms of performance and handling.
Mine has the AC Schnitzer short shift, Eibach suspension kit and a supersprint exhaust which livens up the V8 noise a little bit.
They aren't cheap to run - one bill back in 2017 was almost £5k, but many major components were overhauled and the csar now drives as it should.
People often get these on the cheap then expect to run it on a shoe string - they forget these are a £60k+ super saloon, and as such, will have running costs to match (think £1k+ for brakes all round, £700 for a water pump).
It's done 176k miles, but you woudln't tell, given the solid build quality of the interior.
Currently for sale (at a bargain price compared to other dreamers out there), only as I need to pump funds into my E34 M5 and 8 Series:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BMW-E39-M5-400-BHP-SILV...
f:0
Also have an E34 M5 3.6 in Macau, which is also a brilliant car, but light years behind the E39 in terms of performance and handling.
Mine has the AC Schnitzer short shift, Eibach suspension kit and a supersprint exhaust which livens up the V8 noise a little bit.
They aren't cheap to run - one bill back in 2017 was almost £5k, but many major components were overhauled and the csar now drives as it should.
People often get these on the cheap then expect to run it on a shoe string - they forget these are a £60k+ super saloon, and as such, will have running costs to match (think £1k+ for brakes all round, £700 for a water pump).
It's done 176k miles, but you woudln't tell, given the solid build quality of the interior.
Currently for sale (at a bargain price compared to other dreamers out there), only as I need to pump funds into my E34 M5 and 8 Series:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BMW-E39-M5-400-BHP-SILV...
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