RE: Ford Focus RS (Mk1): Spotted
Discussion
Car-Matt said:
Last time I looked in any detail ie going to see them after finding the ad online there were a lot out there that weren’t quite as nice as the owners thought ( either known or unknown to the owner )
When these dropped to £6-7k they were accessible to people who couldn’t afford to look after them well and there’s also a lot of badly repaired and badly modded ( and subsequently badly unmodded) ones out there.
That’s not to say you won’t find a good one for less then £15k but you may have to do a fair bit of sifting first IMO
Too true.....and there in lies the rub with pretty much any 15 year old performance car be it a Saxo VTS or E46 M3.......you may have to kiss a lot of frogs before you find your prince!When these dropped to £6-7k they were accessible to people who couldn’t afford to look after them well and there’s also a lot of badly repaired and badly modded ( and subsequently badly unmodded) ones out there.
That’s not to say you won’t find a good one for less then £15k but you may have to do a fair bit of sifting first IMO
stargazer30 said:
I always wanted one of these or the mk4 Escort RS turbo! too young to afford to buy or insure either though.
Has anyone driven or owned the mk1 focus RS and driven or owned the mk7 fiesta ST. Both are similar weight and power, be interesting to know how close the fez is to the old focus RS.
I currently own both so can give a fairly un-biased review of them. They are quite similar but also different in key areas.Has anyone driven or owned the mk1 focus RS and driven or owned the mk7 fiesta ST. Both are similar weight and power, be interesting to know how close the fez is to the old focus RS.
I bought the RS 6 years ago and used it as my daily driver for a couple of years along with a 1.2 litre fiesta. when that fiesta came to the end of its life i traded up for a Mk7 ST which I now use as my daily with the RS a weekend / sunny day car, that I am currently refurbishing.
The ST is obviously newer so has more toys to play with, bluetooth and heated seats and front screen are probably the only ones I would add to the RS. The ST will do 45MPG on a nice long run, the RS will do single figures when driven like its meant to be and will struggle to get to mid 20s normally.
The ST is an absolute blast of a car but it has a couple of issues in comparison to the RS the first is the rev limit, the ST runs out of steam about 6.5K where as the RS seems to pull harder for longer and the five speeds are perfectly matched to the engine. I also don't really like how the traction control cuts in on the ST, yes you can turn it off but its a pain to remember everytime you jump in it, the RS just grips and goes, only traction control is from your own right foot!
Both will hang the arse out when asked, but the fiesta is easier and more playful in that perspective or it is until the electronics rein you back in. Ignoring the age difference the RS is the better car, yes it doesn't have the toys you get now but its noticeably faster in a straight line, it will corner faster, you can brake later and harder and you can be back on the power earlier and from an exterior point of view it is a stunning example of timeless car design it just fits its proportions brilliantly, whereas the fiesta I think will age eventually.
The ST is the easier car to drive quickly but when you get it right in the RS it rewards you, it also has the ability to save you when you push too hard as the grip is phenomenal and seemingly ridiculous angles of sideways can be caught by just burying the throttle into the carpet.
Running costs are not really comparable, parts are expensive for the RS but then it was a hand built limited edition model with something silly like 75% of parts different to the standard model, I think thats part of the reason it feels so special to drive is that it was built to be special.
The problem now is that they are heading out of reach of the target audience, its no longer a case of power for the people which is the RS ethos, if you are looking for a fun hot hatch that you can use every day then the ST would be the machine I would pick.
I don't think I will ever be selling my RS tho, I was lucky i got one at the right time
Car-Matt said:
Last time I looked in any detail ie going to see them after finding the ad online there were a lot out there that weren’t quite as nice as the owners thought ( either known or unknown to the owner )
When these dropped to £6-7k they were accessible to people who couldn’t afford to look after them well and there’s also a lot of badly repaired and badly modded ( and subsequently badly unmodded) ones out there.
That’s not to say you won’t find a good one for less then £15k but you may have to do a fair bit of sifting first IMO
The issue with most of them seems to be that regardless of mileage they will almost all have some sort of rot on the wings, sills or reach arches. New front wings were ridiculously expensive, they can't be had from ford now and the same applies to the rear quarters. However there are a lot of body shops now that can repair the existing panels to better than new, but thats not a cheap process. As for modified examples you really have to know what you are looking at and hope the previous owner knew what they were doing but then again its an iron blocked 2 litre turbo so its a strong engine too!When these dropped to £6-7k they were accessible to people who couldn’t afford to look after them well and there’s also a lot of badly repaired and badly modded ( and subsequently badly unmodded) ones out there.
That’s not to say you won’t find a good one for less then £15k but you may have to do a fair bit of sifting first IMO
RyanTank said:
ZX10R NIN said:
SidewaysSi said:
For similarish money you are into 265/275 Cup territory which would slaughter the old Ford. If it is Ohlins equipped then even more so.
An R26 is about a third of the price of the Focus so in today's money not really a competitor.
You're not comparing apples with apples though are you, it's comparable competitor was the R26 R which was a better drivers car but didn't slaughter the FRS & also remember the FRS came out a fair bit before the R26.R take a look at the prices of those:An R26 is about a third of the price of the Focus so in today's money not really a competitor.
realistically any competitor that came out after the RS production ended should in theory be a better vehicle simply down to advancements etc.
As garish as the blue paneling is on the interior its still a great looking one compared to the lump on offer by Renault.
ZX10R NIN said:
SidewaysSi said:
I largely agree re. closest competitor. But if today you wanted a road and track hot hatch with your £15k and it was between this and the later Meg, I can't see why you would go for the Ford.
I set a budget then buy a car as opposed to the other way around.
They're two different markets though a ones a modern classic that'll be someone's garage queen the other (RS265/VXR/Giulietta TBI etc) are modern day hot hatches that will be most people's daily's. So while the prices are the same there usage will be very different.I set a budget then buy a car as opposed to the other way around.
I never really thought of the Mk1 RS as a car to get the back out on deliberately as it was all good and linear and then you went sailing right off the edge. Normally nice and solid but if conditions weren't quite right it could try to bite you hard, and I remember someone at what is now JLR getting killed when theirs did bite and they didn't catch it.
STs are benign by comparison.
STs are benign by comparison.
Jonesy23 said:
I never really thought of the Mk1 RS as a car to get the back out on deliberately as it was all good and linear and then you went sailing right off the edge. Normally nice and solid but if conditions weren't quite right it could try to bite you hard, and I remember someone at what is now JLR getting killed when theirs did bite and they didn't catch it.
STs are benign by comparison.
I would say the RS is fairly forgiving, in that it has a lot of ability once its passed the limit assuming the person behind the wheel has the ability. I certainly don't think they bite, but I will admit the original michelin PS1 tyres were lethal, mine has Michelin PSSs and its pretty immense. I wouldn't call it a linear car with the way the power is delivered and its fairly easy to get the back end to step out, it has so much front end grip that a little lift off on a roundabout will have it driving nicely.STs are benign by comparison.
MK1RS Bruce said:
stargazer30 said:
I always wanted one of these or the mk4 Escort RS turbo! too young to afford to buy or insure either though.
Has anyone driven or owned the mk1 focus RS and driven or owned the mk7 fiesta ST. Both are similar weight and power, be interesting to know how close the fez is to the old focus RS.
I currently own both so can give a fairly un-biased review of them. They are quite similar but also different in key areas.Has anyone driven or owned the mk1 focus RS and driven or owned the mk7 fiesta ST. Both are similar weight and power, be interesting to know how close the fez is to the old focus RS.
I bought the RS 6 years ago and used it as my daily driver for a couple of years along with a 1.2 litre fiesta. when that fiesta came to the end of its life i traded up for a Mk7 ST which I now use as my daily with the RS a weekend / sunny day car, that I am currently refurbishing.
The ST is obviously newer so has more toys to play with, bluetooth and heated seats and front screen are probably the only ones I would add to the RS. The ST will do 45MPG on a nice long run, the RS will do single figures when driven like its meant to be and will struggle to get to mid 20s normally.
The ST is an absolute blast of a car but it has a couple of issues in comparison to the RS the first is the rev limit, the ST runs out of steam about 6.5K where as the RS seems to pull harder for longer and the five speeds are perfectly matched to the engine. I also don't really like how the traction control cuts in on the ST, yes you can turn it off but its a pain to remember everytime you jump in it, the RS just grips and goes, only traction control is from your own right foot!
Both will hang the arse out when asked, but the fiesta is easier and more playful in that perspective or it is until the electronics rein you back in. Ignoring the age difference the RS is the better car, yes it doesn't have the toys you get now but its noticeably faster in a straight line, it will corner faster, you can brake later and harder and you can be back on the power earlier and from an exterior point of view it is a stunning example of timeless car design it just fits its proportions brilliantly, whereas the fiesta I think will age eventually.
The ST is the easier car to drive quickly but when you get it right in the RS it rewards you, it also has the ability to save you when you push too hard as the grip is phenomenal and seemingly ridiculous angles of sideways can be caught by just burying the throttle into the carpet.
Running costs are not really comparable, parts are expensive for the RS but then it was a hand built limited edition model with something silly like 75% of parts different to the standard model, I think thats part of the reason it feels so special to drive is that it was built to be special.
The problem now is that they are heading out of reach of the target audience, its no longer a case of power for the people which is the RS ethos, if you are looking for a fun hot hatch that you can use every day then the ST would be the machine I would pick.
I don't think I will ever be selling my RS tho, I was lucky i got one at the right time
blade7 said:
Car-Matt said:
Comprehending what you wrote yourself appears not to be yours.
I'll make it clear as you seem to be hard of understanding......
Car-Matt said:
You show me someone who doesn’t consider price/depreciation/appreciation when buying/selling/running a car and I’ll show you a liar ;-)
blade7 said:
As I'm not currently selling the weekend toy that I bought 10 years ago, I don't really give a toss that it's apparently worth around 3 times what I paid for it. I bought it because it was one the fastest, best built,best handling cars for the money at the time.
So you're currently running the car.... and you know the market value.......therefore you have considered the price whilst running the car, exactly as I said.HTH
Edited by Car-Matt on Monday 17th December 12:34
Edited by Car-Matt on Monday 17th December 12:35
Seems like a good place to park 15K to me. Don't care whether it's better or worse than a Megane or anything else. 15K here will do better than in a house, or most other 15K cars, incl. the Megane.
I think it looks nice too, from the outside. Interior is a pig however. How does it drive? good enough I'm sure.
I'd buy one if I didn't need the money for other things.
I think it looks nice too, from the outside. Interior is a pig however. How does it drive? good enough I'm sure.
I'd buy one if I didn't need the money for other things.
MK1RS Bruce said:
stargazer30 said:
I always wanted one of these or the mk4 Escort RS turbo! too young to afford to buy or insure either though.
Has anyone driven or owned the mk1 focus RS and driven or owned the mk7 fiesta ST. Both are similar weight and power, be interesting to know how close the fez is to the old focus RS.
I currently own both so can give a fairly un-biased review of them. They are quite similar but also different in key areas.Has anyone driven or owned the mk1 focus RS and driven or owned the mk7 fiesta ST. Both are similar weight and power, be interesting to know how close the fez is to the old focus RS.
I bought the RS 6 years ago and used it as my daily driver for a couple of years along with a 1.2 litre fiesta. when that fiesta came to the end of its life i traded up for a Mk7 ST which I now use as my daily with the RS a weekend / sunny day car, that I am currently refurbishing.
The ST is obviously newer so has more toys to play with, bluetooth and heated seats and front screen are probably the only ones I would add to the RS. The ST will do 45MPG on a nice long run, the RS will do single figures when driven like its meant to be and will struggle to get to mid 20s normally.
The ST is an absolute blast of a car but it has a couple of issues in comparison to the RS the first is the rev limit, the ST runs out of steam about 6.5K where as the RS seems to pull harder for longer and the five speeds are perfectly matched to the engine. I also don't really like how the traction control cuts in on the ST, yes you can turn it off but its a pain to remember everytime you jump in it, the RS just grips and goes, only traction control is from your own right foot!
Both will hang the arse out when asked, but the fiesta is easier and more playful in that perspective or it is until the electronics rein you back in. Ignoring the age difference the RS is the better car, yes it doesn't have the toys you get now but its noticeably faster in a straight line, it will corner faster, you can brake later and harder and you can be back on the power earlier and from an exterior point of view it is a stunning example of timeless car design it just fits its proportions brilliantly, whereas the fiesta I think will age eventually.
The ST is the easier car to drive quickly but when you get it right in the RS it rewards you, it also has the ability to save you when you push too hard as the grip is phenomenal and seemingly ridiculous angles of sideways can be caught by just burying the throttle into the carpet.
Running costs are not really comparable, parts are expensive for the RS but then it was a hand built limited edition model with something silly like 75% of parts different to the standard model, I think thats part of the reason it feels so special to drive is that it was built to be special.
The problem now is that they are heading out of reach of the target audience, its no longer a case of power for the people which is the RS ethos, if you are looking for a fun hot hatch that you can use every day then the ST would be the machine I would pick.
I don't think I will ever be selling my RS tho, I was lucky i got one at the right time
1430 said:
I always thought these were crap, how did the RS go from a 4wd homologation car to this?
I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong...The full bifta homologation rules / cars stopped after Group B? Although there were 4WD road going versions of the previous Escort Cossie as there was with other Group A cars , I'm not sure there were any road cars specifics required from a homologation rule perspective.
The Focus rally car was 4WD (as was the successful Citreon Xsara) and I can remember thinking, particularly with the Citreon, why there was no road / rally spin off - no halo model to capitalise on. Ford at least had the Forcus RS spin off even if it wasn't 4WD.
Nors said:
I'm not sure there were any road cars specifics required from a homologation rule perspective.
The only 'homologation' car I can remember was the silver SVT Focus based one for the WRC03, which I think was mostly about getting to use the fat US spec bumpers as a baseline. All the visible exterior kit but mechanically standard apart from a widened track. Not sure what happened to that in the end, some Czech (?) MSport customer bought it? (Note not the same car as the silver replica someone built later which was easy to spot from the non vented replica bumper)
Jonesy23 said:
Nors said:
I'm not sure there were any road cars specifics required from a homologation rule perspective.
The only 'homologation' car I can remember was the silver SVT Focus based one for the WRC03, which I think was mostly about getting to use the fat US spec bumpers as a baseline. All the visible exterior kit but mechanically standard apart from a widened track. Not sure what happened to that in the end, some Czech (?) MSport customer bought it? (Note not the same car as the silver replica someone built later which was easy to spot from the non vented replica bumper)
lee_erm said:
The ST170 is a bargain in my opinion. OK it doesn't have the most engaging engine but it does still has one of the best FWD chassis ever. One can be had for a 15th of the cost of the RS too.
Couldn't agree more, and I think the engine is actually a good unit. Paid £500 for one with a new clutch, 5 door, 2 owner car in magnum grey with the rear spoiler. It was faultless, it showed up a few mates in their FR's and Zetec S'. Sold it on for £750 after cleaning it up, the guy who bought it put £2k into it as a family car, it's a serious bit of kit now. Id say they're one of the best buys around at that price. Of course I'm biased...https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
gigglebug said:
DoubleD said:
Renault interiors arent very good, but the interior of that focus is plain nasty. I dont know if I want to laugh, or be sick.
It's not aged well has it!Externally it's one of those car that just look right to me though. It's got subtle aggression. Not overly flashy. The M3 CSL had it in spades too.
Nors said:
1430 said:
I always thought these were crap, how did the RS go from a 4wd homologation car to this?
I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong...The full bifta homologation rules / cars stopped after Group B?
"Between 1997 and 2010, the regulations mandated that World Rally Cars must have been built upon a production car with a minimum production run of 2500 units. A number of modifications could be made including increasing the engine displacement up to 2.0L, forced induction (including an anti-lag system), addition of four wheel drive, fitment of a sequential gearbox, modified suspension layout and attachment points, aerodynamic body modifications, weight reduction to a minimum of 1230 kg and chassis strengthening for greater rigidity. The maximum width was set at 1770 mm while front and rear tracks shouldn't exceed 1550 mm.
Unlike the requirements for the preceding Group A cars, manufacturers were no longer required to build "homologation specials" in order to meet approval. The base model did not need to have all the characteristics of the WRC car, as evidenced from cars such the Peugeot 206, 307, Citroën Xsara and Škoda Fabia, which during this period had no road car variant with a turbocharged petrol engine or four wheel drive. One of the requirements was a minimum length of 4000 mm; the standard Peugeot 206 had an overall length of 3835 mm and Peugeot had to produce at least 2500 units featuring extended bumpers to comply with the required dimensions."
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