Smart motorway rollout to be stopped?

[swisstoni]

saaby93 said:

The A1 has the inside lane becoming the off slip and it comes back on again as a whole new lane.
If only people would stay in those lanes

You could have a 5 mile long slip and there would still be tools who will want to dive in at the top.
These cause braking ripples down the queue, leading to shunts way down the line.
Happens almost every day at the M4 eastbound junction with M25.

[jurbie]

I think that depends on the type of slip road, if it's a single lane then you'd be correct but if it's a double I don't see any issue with moving over later.

If I know the junction and I need to be in the right hand lane at the roundabout then I will often wait until the slip road is wide enough for two lanes before moving over.

The old M1/A14 junction was a great example where traffic would actually be queuing on the hard shoulder for a mile and more because everyone thought they could only use the left lane to join the roundabout at the bottom and then on to the A14. The signage was very clear that both lanes should be used for the A14 so I'd sail past the queue and at the point where the slip road was wide enough for two vehicles I'd move over into a totally clear lane without upsetting anyone.

[Spleen]

swisstoni said:

It’s been interesting to see what has happened on the stretch of M4 near me that has very recently become ‘smart’.

Very simply, L1 has expanded into L2. For instance some lorries sit on L2, with no intention of moving back to L1.
There is little to no useful speed differential between L1 and L2 so they are all basically flying in formation.

So L3 becomes the ‘middle lane’, about twice as busy as L1 and 2, and L4 is the rest.

Ultimately I suppose none of this matters. Except it’s cost the best part of a £billion.

I found exactly the same the other day, after the junction to Theale (eastbound) the M4 turns into a smart motorway at which point hardly anyone uses L1 so 2, 3 and 4 become the de facto motorway. I came off at A329 so have no idea what the rest of it was like. Bonkers.

[saaby93]

Spleen said:

swisstoni said:

It’s been interesting to see what has happened on the stretch of M4 near me that has very recently become ‘smart’.

Very simply, L1 has expanded into L2. For instance some lorries sit on L2, with no intention of moving back to L1.
There is little to no useful speed differential between L1 and L2 so they are all basically flying in formation.

So L3 becomes the ‘middle lane’, about twice as busy as L1 and 2, and L4 is the rest.

Ultimately I suppose none of this matters. Except it’s cost the best part of a £billion.

I found exactly the same the other day, after the junction to Theale (eastbound) the M4 turns into a smart motorway at which point hardly anyone uses L1 so 2, 3 and 4 become the de facto motorway. I came off at A329 so have no idea what the rest of it was like. Bonkers.

Arent most people avoiding L1 because they know it should be a hard shoulder.
If anything goes wrong you need to have L1 clear just in case

[Spleen]

saaby93 said:

Arent most people avoiding L1 because they know it should be a hard shoulder.
If anything goes wrong you need to have L1 clear just in case

I honestly don't know, I've never broken down on a motorway and the thought of doing so on a 'smart' motorway really makes me uneasy. If we are all unconsciously (or consciously) steering clear of L1 to create a hard shoulder I'm all for it.

[DonkeyApple]

I tend to avoid them because I cannot be arsed to fanny about keeping an eye on when you can use the lane and when you can't. Nor do I want to get involved with some poor bugger who has gone stationary. And I will in fact tend to keep a lane further out just to keep further away from what I tend to suspect is an unnecessary fiasco in waiting.

If I were to be using a particular stretch frequently I would invest in taking advantage but I don't and when I do end up where one is I will just keep a healthy distance from it so as to keep life simple.

[Blakewater]

Deranged Rover said:

saaby93 said:

It might be useful to bring back the old system of lane types
hard shoulder
slow lane
fast lane
over taking lane

I think you mean:

Hard Shoulder
Driving Lane
Overtaking Lane
Second overtaking Lane

There is no ‘fast’ or ‘slow’ lane. The speed limits for each type of vehicle are the same in each lane.

This is the Queensway Tunnel in Liverpool, 60s or earlier.

[VSKeith]

Bump.

I understood that the rollout was paused for 5yrs, as per:
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/smart-motorway-rollout-to-be-paused-as-government-responds-to-transport-committee-report

Does anyone know why they're continuing with the rollout on the M3 around Winchester?

[ruggedscotty]

VSKeith said:

Bump.

I understood that the rollout was paused for 5yrs, as per:
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/smart-motorway-rollout-to-be-paused-as-government-responds-to-transport-committee-report

Does anyone know why they're continuing with the rollout on the M3 around Winchester?

its in progression - penalty to great to back out.... that sort of thing They wont award contracts or set start dates now etc.

[SteveR1979]

VSKeith said:

Bump.

I understood that the rollout was paused for 5yrs, as per:
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/smart-motorway-rollout-to-be-paused-as-government-responds-to-transport-committee-report

Does anyone know why they're continuing with the rollout on the M3 around Winchester?

While further data is being collected, National Highways will continue work to complete schemes that are currently in construction, which will all open with technology in place to detect stopped vehicles. These schemes are all more than 50% completed and halting progress on them now would cause significant disruption for drivers.

[VSKeith]

ruggedscotty said:

its in progression - penalty to great to back out.... that sort of thing They wont award contracts or set start dates now etc.

SteveR1979 said:

While further data is being collected, National Highways will continue work to complete schemes that are currently in construction, which will all open with technology in place to detect stopped vehicles. These schemes are all more than 50% completed and halting progress on them now would cause significant disruption for drivers.

Thanks both, makes sense when you view it as part of the M27 project, just seemed separate with the large works area being created nearby on Badger Farm Road.

Update: As I googled about the works area, found this:

https://nationalhighways.co.uk/our-roads/south-eas...

So it seems it's just upgrading the central reservation for now

[DonkeyApple]

Slightly depressing. £140m in spend. £billions lost in commuter hours and in the end, just to upgrade a central reservation that in all fairness was absolutely fine as it was.

[anonymous-user]

The (fking) M4 smart motorway upgrade is anything but.

For a few years now, coming out of London one comes down off the two lane elevated section, past the last average speed cam, then hit the NSL three lane section. That lasted only a few miles before average speed cams and a 50mph limit took you all the way to J12 at Thatcham while a “smart” [sic] motorway was installed by way of “upgrade” [sic]. Very boring.

The first section has now been completed. There are gantries and hadecs 3 cameras mounted on some of them out at least as far as Windsor.

However.

You come off the elevated two lane section and hit the three lane derestricted sign, so 70mph.

Then within a couple of miles you come to a 50mph advisory. That’s been on for about a month now. With a 1/4 you pass an average speed cam. No signage to say “camera not in use”. Within another 1/4 you go under a large screen on an arm with a “60” in a red circle. So a 60 limit.

Thereafter the smart overhead gantries show 60. Some of them have hadecs 3 cameras on them. But there are also average speed cams along the side of the carriageway.

Those 60mph mandatory limits have been in place every time I’ve used the M4 in the last month.

So it appears that the M4 has been “upgraded” with a permanent temporary 60mph limit, irrespective of traffics conditions. And is policed by both hadecs 3 and average cams (something I’ve not seen anywhere else) over quite a considerable chunk of its length.

Smart upgrade my arse.

[Gweeds]

DonkeyApple said:

Slightly depressing. £140m in spend. £billions lost in commuter hours and in the end, just to upgrade a central reservation that in all fairness was absolutely fine as it was.

I drive this part a fair amount and that central reservation was absolutely fine. Now it’s just more miles of 50mph drones.

[ingenieur]

BlackWidow13 said:

The (fking) M4 smart motorway upgrade is anything but.

For a few years now, coming out of London one comes down off the two lane elevated section, past the last average speed cam, then hit the NSL three lane section. That lasted only a few miles before average speed cams and a 50mph limit took you all the way to J12 at Thatcham while a “smart” [sic] motorway was installed by way of “upgrade” [sic]. Very boring.

The first section has now been completed. There are gantries and hadecs 3 cameras mounted on some of them out at least as far as Windsor.

However.

You come off the elevated two lane section and hit the three lane derestricted sign, so 70mph.

Then within a couple of miles you come to a 50mph advisory. That’s been on for about a month now. With a 1/4 you pass an average speed cam. No signage to say “camera not in use”. Within another 1/4 you go under a large screen on an arm with a “60” in a red circle. So a 60 limit.

Thereafter the smart overhead gantries show 60. Some of them have hadecs 3 cameras on them. But there are also average speed cams along the side of the carriageway.

Those 60mph mandatory limits have been in place every time I’ve used the M4 in the last month.

So it appears that the M4 has been “upgraded” with a permanent temporary 60mph limit, irrespective of traffics conditions. And is policed by both hadecs 3 and average cams (something I’ve not seen anywhere else) over quite a considerable chunk of its length.

Smart upgrade my arse.

Yeah I did the M4 today. Nailed it coming out of London and then almost straight away you're into 'smart' territory and even at 8am it was set at 50mph.

I think if a political party were to stand promising an end to speed limit erosion they'd get a fair hearing. It's getting effing ridiculous.

[DonkeyApple]

ingenieur said:

Yeah I did the M4 today. Nailed it coming out of London and then almost straight away you're into 'smart' territory and even at 8am it was set at 50mph.

I think if a political party were to stand promising an end to speed limit erosion they'd get a fair hearing. It's getting effing ridiculous.

You were lucky. The other Sunday evening, I nailed it at the NSL and then came to a halt as the motorway was actually closed several miles up ahead but they were putting the signage up working back from the closure!! Sat there for over an hour at 2am.

[ingenieur]

DonkeyApple said:

ingenieur said:

Yeah I did the M4 today. Nailed it coming out of London and then almost straight away you're into 'smart' territory and even at 8am it was set at 50mph.

I think if a political party were to stand promising an end to speed limit erosion they'd get a fair hearing. It's getting effing ridiculous.

You were lucky. The other Sunday evening, I nailed it at the NSL and then came to a halt as the motorway was actually closed several miles up ahead but they were putting the signage up working back from the closure!! Sat there for over an hour at 2am.

Unlucky. I've had it before on the A55 when a car was on fire. We were 1/4 of a mile past the exit and the police had a fit and closed the road. The car was in a layby... they could have done something to get us moving one way or another.

[Pica-Pica]

ingenieur said:

DonkeyApple said:

ingenieur said:

Yeah I did the M4 today. Nailed it coming out of London and then almost straight away you're into 'smart' territory and even at 8am it was set at 50mph.

I think if a political party were to stand promising an end to speed limit erosion they'd get a fair hearing. It's getting effing ridiculous.

You were lucky. The other Sunday evening, I nailed it at the NSL and then came to a halt as the motorway was actually closed several miles up ahead but they were putting the signage up working back from the closure!! Sat there for over an hour at 2am.

Unlucky. I've had it before on the A55 when a car was on fire. We were 1/4 of a mile past the exit and the police had a fit and closed the road. The car was in a layby... they could have done something to get us moving one way or another.

I have seen both A55 carriageways closed, to land a helicopter on the opposite carriageway. They may have closed one side to prevent other vehicles passing, and getting the fire engines accessing from the other side.
I’ve been stopped on the QE2 bridge at Dartford for two hours, while the police tried to talk someone down from jumping.

[911hope]

Seems they don't really change anything until the congestion is sufficient to force all lanes to do the same speed.

When moderate traffic, often see 3 lanes of lorry blockage and inside one is usually quite sparsely occupied.

Frequently when getting busy, they don't bring the limit down low enough to damp the oscillations. 30MPH constant is faster than 0-40-0-40.
Also obvious that enforcement is too weak. Regulars know where the cameras are so ignore when they choose.

[jamei303]

saaby93 said:

Arent most people avoiding L1 because they know it should be a hard shoulder.
If anything goes wrong you need to have L1 clear just in case

This, plus also on some sections of smart motorway it's narrower and bumpier.