RE: BMW M2 Competition vs. Porsche Cayman GT4

[fuchsiasteve]

Don Colione said:

** Awards and Recognition** Complete List for 86/FR-S/BRZ**

"People were calling for a compiled list of awards and recognition so here it is. If you have any I have left off please drop them in, I am a huge forum junkie so it will be updated in a timely manner." - https://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2...


New Read on our Awards Cabinet: http://www.torquenews.com/1084/subar...flowing-awa...

Best Sports Car for the Money -- U.S. News: http://usnews.rankingsandreviews.com...ks/Scion_FR...

Best of 2013 -- Cars.com http://blogs.cars.com/kickingtires/2...t-of-2013.h...

Car of the Year 2012 -- Pistonheads http://www.pistonheads.com/news/defa...?storyId=26...

Most Desired Car of 2012 -- Jaloponik http://jalopnik.com/5971244/the-ten-...e-cars-of-2...

Performance Car of 2012 -- Autoexpress http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/car-rev...-car-year-2...

Car of the Year -- New York Times http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24...

First Autoguide.com COTY http://www.torquenews.com/1084/2013-...nly-half-st...

Car of the Year 2013 -- Playboy http://www.playboy.com/playground/vi...-the-year-2...

Vehicle Dynamics International COTY http://viewer.zmags.com/publication/...d#/b41bd0bd...

Jeremy Clarkson/Top Gear Car of the Year 2012 http://www.topgear.com/uk/car-news/j...gt86-2012-1...

MEMA Award Best Sports Coupe 2012 http://www.ameinfo.com/toyota-86-bag...rd-2012-322...

People's Choice Awards Sports Car Under 100k http://www.motoring.com.au/news/2012...es-first-33...

IIHS Top Safety Pick http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-13746_7...-safety-awa...

Drive's Car of the Year and Best Performance car under 60k http://www.warwickdailynews.com.au/n...86-gt/16409...

SEMA Hottest Sports Compact http://www.autoweek.com/article/20121030/SEMA/1210...

Carsguide.com.au Car of the Year http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news...-1226536279...

"Best Coupe" -- Scottish Car of the Year Award 2012 http://www.gt86ownersclub.co.uk/foru...topic1329.h...

Jaloponik Top 10 New Cars We are Thankful For http://jalopnik.com/5962499/ten-new-...e-thankful-...

Car of the Year 2013 -- South African Guild of Motoring Journalists (SAGMJ) http://www.automobil.co.za/news/2013...sts-announc...

Best Affordable Sports Car 2012 -- US News http://usnews.rankingsandreviews.com.../grid/overa...

Autocar Britans Best Driver's Car 2012 http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showt...ght=Awards+...

Auto123.com Canadian Sports Car of the Year http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2...ards-roll.h...

Japan Car of the Year "Special" Award http://www.torquenews.com/1084/subar...-special-aw...

Japan Car of the Year Award http://carscoop.blogspot.com/2012/12...ubaru-brz.h...

10 Most Important Cars of 2012 http://jalopnik.com/5968200/the-ten-...ium=socialf...

Ward's 10 Best Engines of 2013 http://www.torquenews.com/106/wards-...t-engines-2...

Car & Driver's 10 Best for 2013 - http://www.caranddriver.com/features...ru-brz-page...

CNET's Most Worthy of the Hype - http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-13746_7...e-winner-is...

Brilliant reply and thanks for taking the time to list all that........ and what a list! Awesome car those GT86s. Perfect B road motor.

[SidewaysSi]

Don Colione said:

SidewaysSi said:

Are you shagging a GT86? It's an OK car but it ain't no Porsche. It's just a bit of cheap fun.

Lol, are your feelings hurt over some stupid cars, that ultimately mean nothing?

"It's just a bit of cheap fun" - That's the whole point.

What are you on about? Why don't we just copy and paste a hundred reviews of a Saxo VTS. That is a cheap fun car too. Or perhaps a Panda 100HP?

Back on topic...

[Don Colione]

fuchsiasteve said:

Brilliant reply and thanks for taking the time to list all that........ and what a list! Awesome car those GT86s. Perfect B road motor.

Thanks, but I really did nothing but cut and paste the whole page from the site below, their words and all... Who ever compiled this list took a lot of time and effort so I didn't want to take anything away from their work... https://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2...

Edited by Don Colione on Friday 28th December 23:50

[Don Colione]

SidewaysSi said:

What are you on about? Why don't we just copy and paste a hundred reviews of a Saxo VTS. That is a cheap fun car too. Or perhaps a Panda 100HP?

Back on topic...

When people don't have a logical argument or defense, they usually resort to name calling, personal attacks, and 'moving goalposts' to some other bullsh--it argument; to avoid the truth.

I understand you are still upset, but please take the time to understand that was a compiled list of AWARDS and ACCOMPLISHMENTS. If those other cars are that great, then put up the list!

Back on topic indeed....

[SidewaysSi]

Don Colione said:

SidewaysSi said:

What are you on about? Why don't we just copy and paste a hundred reviews of a Saxo VTS. That is a cheap fun car too. Or perhaps a Panda 100HP?

Back on topic...

When people don't have a logical argument or defense, they usually resort to name calling, personal attacks, and 'moving goalposts' to some other bullsh--it argument; to avoid the truth.

I understand you are still upset, but please take the time to understand that was a compiled list of AWARDS and ACCOMPLISHMENTS. If those other cars are that great, then put up the list!

Back on topic indeed....

Save me the psychology lesson.

How many people do you think cross shop a GT86 against a GT4/M2C? The square root of FA is probably the answer.

[blearyeyedboy]

Don Colione said:

SidewaysSi said:

What are you on about? Why don't we just copy and paste a hundred reviews of a Saxo VTS. That is a cheap fun car too. Or perhaps a Panda 100HP?

Back on topic...

When people don't have a logical argument or defense, they usually resort to name calling, personal attacks, and 'moving goalposts' to some other bullsh--it argument; to avoid the truth.

I understand you are still upset, but please take the time to understand that was a compiled list of AWARDS and ACCOMPLISHMENTS. If those other cars are that great, then put up the list!

Back on topic indeed....

Consider the following conversation:

Person A: "I like to cook steak rare."
Person B: "But don't you know that a cheesecake is nice? It's come out very well in a lot of surveys. Look at this list."
Person A: "So what? If you fancy a steak, you don't look at a cheesecake. I wouldn't look at a custard slice or an apple turnover if I wanted a steak, would I?
Person B: "You're calling me names to avoid the truth, because you know you're wrong. If you think those other deserts are really great, why don't you show me your own list?"

Person B might want to become more familiar with the concept of Straw Man fallacies. Person A has probably wandered somewhere else to find a decent steak.

Now, shall we get back to discussing steak the GT4 and M2?

[Don Colione]

blearyeyedboy said:

Consider the following conversation:

Person A: "I like to cook steak rare."
Person B: "But don't you know that a cheesecake is nice? It's come out very well in a lot of surveys. Look at this list."
Person A: "So what? If you fancy a steak, you don't look at a cheesecake. I wouldn't look at a custard slice or an apple turnover if I wanted a steak, would I?
Person B: "You're calling me names to avoid the truth, because you know you're wrong. If you think those other deserts are really great, why don't you show me your own list?"

Person B might want to become more familiar with the concept of Straw Man fallacies. Person A has probably wandered somewhere else to find a decent steak.

Now, shall we get back to discussing steak the GT4 and M2?

Lol, you guys are starting to border on pathetic....

If the GT4 and M2 are so great, you wouldn't have to be going to such lengths.

Please refer to my first comment on this thread if you are going to be in the market for some good "steak" next year, and afterwards (cross shoppers). We'll see the excuses then....

[peterpeter]

Don Colione said:

peterpeter said:

and driven a GT86.. fine for a bit of fun but painfully slow.

Don't forget that owning a car is a far different proposition than just a drive... Imagine that "bit of fun" multiplied by every drive, on the "painfully slow" normal roads we use everyday.... Lol I also think that you are exaggerating a bit when you say it is "painfully" slow...


The GT4 is better statistically, but not as FUN/exciting overall (on the road) because of those statistically unapproachable limits..

The couple of seconds you lose in time isn't worth the asking price of the faster cars. That is just what most are saying when they laud the GT-86.... It is punching way above its weight, on much lesser tires than its "competition".


For those that need a 'proper education' on the GT-86 I suggest -

Chris Harris review 5' min mark... - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=romf-G6CZ7g
Chris Harris GT-86 VS. Nissan 370Z v Used Porsche Cayman S on a back road - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JUhLXvxlQR4
GT-86 VS. F12 Berlinetta on track - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uTDtUG-rVfA
GT-86(auto) Vs. 997 Carrera S backroad assessment - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r-LAKGtkri8


Time has moved on.... expensive, too-fast, "supercars" are becoming redundant for truly exciting driving that you can do at "pedestrian" speeds...

Small size is what ultimately matters in a true sports car, not "bigger" everything.


I personally started calling those mega-wide, super-expensive, heavy, and unusable super and hypercars - "Dinosaurs".... They might be super predators, but their environment (the public road) is quickly becoming more uninhabitable by the day, with all the speed cameras, police, deer, traffic, and other safety hazards that make their existence increasingly "pointless".....

If you notice on youtube, the new thing is "drag race" videos, on an empty runway or racetrack. That is the only way marketers can now demonstrate the capabilities most modern machinery. They cannot put that power down on the public road.


How many times in regular life do most flat out floor the throttle, as in a 0-60 situation; compared to regular sedated cruising, just enjoying the 'sensations' of driving?


All of this is keeping in mind that most can, and do, own multiple cars.... so just get and drive what you like; it is a great time to be alive with the new and used choices drivers have at their disposal!

Really ?

Are you saying I should sell my gt4 and get a gt86 because it will be more fun ?
I’m nearly 50 and have done those cars to death be they Subaru’s/ integras / mx5/ etc etc owned cars like this for years
I think not -

I can assure you the Gt4 is not a supercar and you certainly can floor it and have amazing fun on normal roads - it has amazing character and probably the best manual gearbox ever - all very apparent at low speeds
My M2 also is in that category - it is no hypercar
If a little more comfortable

Previous cars were 3 Nissan Gtrs which may well be too fast for the roads (I still had a lot of fun )

I’ve got a couple of cheap cars too and yes they are fun but driving something special is a little different and the gt86 while nice - is nothing special

[blearyeyedboy]

Don Colione said:

Lol, you guys are starting to border on pathetic....

Le sigh. Don Colione, meet Don Colione from your previous post:

Don Colione said:

When people don't have a logical argument or defense, they usually resort to name calling, personal attacks, and 'moving goalposts' to some other bullsh--it argument; to avoid the truth.

Pot, meet kettle.

As for your other point, I entirely agree about the Supra, which may well be a very likely tasty rival to the M2 and the GT4...

I have to say that I think the Supra certainly will set the cat among the pigeons, as long as they've not botched it in development.

[Don Colione]

peterpeter said:

Really ?

Are you saying I should sell my gt4 and get a gt86 because it will be more fun ?
I’m nearly 50 and have done those cars to death be they Subaru’s/ integras / mx5/ etc etc owned cars like this for years
I think not -

I can assure you the Gt4 is not a supercar and you certainly can floor it and have amazing fun on normal roads - it has amazing character and probably the best manual gearbox ever - all very apparent at low speeds
My M2 also is in that category - it is no hypercar
If a little more comfortable

Previous cars were 3 Nissan Gtrs which may well be too fast for the roads (I still had a lot of fun )

I’ve got a couple of cheap cars too and yes they are fun but driving something special is a little different and the gt86 while nice - is nothing special

"All of this is keeping in mind that most can, and do, own multiple cars.... so just get and drive what you like; it is a great time to be alive with the new and used choices drivers have at their disposal!"

[Cold]

Who was that poster who blathered on about something irrelevant on the recent New Defender thread?

[SidewaysSi]

Don Colione said:

blearyeyedboy said:

Consider the following conversation:

Person A: "I like to cook steak rare."
Person B: "But don't you know that a cheesecake is nice? It's come out very well in a lot of surveys. Look at this list."
Person A: "So what? If you fancy a steak, you don't look at a cheesecake. I wouldn't look at a custard slice or an apple turnover if I wanted a steak, would I?
Person B: "You're calling me names to avoid the truth, because you know you're wrong. If you think those other deserts are really great, why don't you show me your own list?"

Person B might want to become more familiar with the concept of Straw Man fallacies. Person A has probably wandered somewhere else to find a decent steak.

Now, shall we get back to discussing steak the GT4 and M2?

Lol, you guys are starting to border on pathetic....

If the GT4 and M2 are so great, you wouldn't have to be going to such lengths.

Please refer to my first comment on this thread if you are going to be in the market for some good "steak" next year, and afterwards (cross shoppers). We'll see the excuses then....

It does look a mess. Hopefully they put a proper engine in this one.

The main problem I have with the GT86 is the rear seats are bloody useless. A M2 in a Phantom in comparison. Quite why Toyota didn't sort that, God only knows.

[anonymous-user]

I don't think that Supra knows whether it's a sports car or tourer. Also, engine is BMW. Which is a nice unit, but brings nothing new to market.

Would I consider one ahead of an M2/Cayman GTS? Nope.

At that end of the market, the new cars would be competing with more juicy stuff for me, such as a used 911/Aston.

[deltashad]

Good to see some movement away from a GT86/MX5 Just ridiculous comparisons.
The Supra could be interesting, especially with the amount of track testing it's receiving, if it's any good there's no reason a special couldn't be produced to become more inline with the two cars in the original post.
But this is pure speculation and we are along way from that. For now, we'll have to wait for the z4 based m140 powered car to asses how good it really is.
The GT86 was a disappointment, the Supras show piece was the 2jz tt engine. So my hopes are not too high.

[Simon Owen]

Side by side for a Sunday morning drive on the road there would be only one choice to try for me (I've driven neither) the GT4.

If I needed more of a daily that you could occasionally get kids in the back but still go out on a Sunday morning then the M2 I'm sure would be a cracking choice.

It seems both cars have a few flaws, out of interest do owners really find the gearing an issue in the GT4 ? Coming from a 6 speed Caterham gearing in modern cars is something that does pi** me off sometimes, I couldn't care less about 0-60 and top speed trump's.

For road driving a lower final drive and closer set of gears would surely be better ?

[greenarrow]

s m said:

greenarrow said:

Another fun article would be the Cayman R vs the BMW 1M. They were both rivals in 2011 and I think the Cayman is the cheaper car now...

I think that would just reinforce the Porsche victories over the 1M from 2011 in EVO and Autocar ( unless you need 4 seats )


https://www.autocar.co.uk/opinion/tester-s-notes/1...

Good point

Ok then, what about Cayman R and GT4.... " is the GT4 really twice the car for twice the price?" The answer may well be yes, but I'd love to read a Pistonheads comparison test.

I watched a BMW 1M v M2 track comparison not long ago, cant remember who was the driver, think it was Steve Sutcliffe or Jethro Bovington and the M2 was very slightly quicker. It really was a very close contest. So I reckon the Porsche comparison would be interesting.

(Just trying to drag the discussion back to the cars tested, as its veered off into a slanging match between Toyota GT86 fans and the rest!!!)

Edited by greenarrow on Saturday 29th December 15:49

[anonymous-user]

greenarrow said:

(Just trying to drag the discussion back to the cars tested, as its veered off into a slanging match between Toyota GT86 fans and the rest!!!)

What? Both of them are here?

[CABC]

greenarrow said:

Good point

Ok then, what about Cayman R and GT4.... " is the GT4 really twice the car for twice the price?"

Edited by greenarrow on Saturday 29th December 15:49

GT4 isn't twice price of an R.
would still be an interesting read to put several Cayster models together.

[deltashad]

Both cars are affordable and special, the Porsche does trump the M2 on performance but lacks with everyday useability. If the M2 was built in limited numbers and space wasn't an issue then maybe it could be in for a shout. The 1M held its value and was really quite a special car. My money would go to a nice used 1M or the GT4

[s m]

greenarrow said:

I watched a BMW 1M v M2 track comparison not long ago, cant remember who was the driver, think it was Steve Sutcliffe or Jethro Bovington and the M2 was very slightly quicker. It really was a very close contest.

Chris Harris did a nice one too

https://youtu.be/-xkv4PiD0To