RE: BMW M2 Competition vs. Porsche Cayman GT4

[CABC]

Charlie_1 said:

fuchsiasteve said:

Honeywell said:

A Toyota GT86 or a Mazda MX5 are both more fun more of the time on most British roads and if you don’t measure your willy by the proxy of your sports car you can save an absolute fortune.

Just sayin’

Couldn’t agree more. Trying to enjoy 400 bhp on a great B road drive will either scare you silly, end in tears or result in a ban. Give me a good old school jap motor with 160 bhp any day of the week than these two penis extensions. Well said mate. Will always result in a flaming on here with all the Rodney’s and Nigel’s who need the “badge”. Just sleep safe in the knowledge others who read these nonsense articles feel the same.

Far more fun in a gt86.

One has to ask could possibly be that you chaps just cant drive properly ? , have driven an MX-5 and in context it seemed nice enough in context but not quite as anazing as people say , havent driven a gt86 so cant comment, sports cars and saving money isnt that an oxymoron

from what i see most drivers of fast cars can't drive and rely on the point and squirt abilities of their machines.
better drivers of Porsche/M series (or indeed any car) come from an enthusiastic background of lighter, simpler cars.

[GrahamAC]

schaeffs said:

Interesting - had my GT4 for 2 years now and i really don't think the suspension is stiff at all - in fact unless its on a very crappy B road I prefer it in the sport setting, due to the extra body control it gives. So I think its very much down to personal preference. I also have an M135i and the stiffer of the two settings (sport in adaptive) gives a "crashier" ride than the GT4 in sport. IMO - the GT4 suspension settings are beautifully judged and really suit the UK conditions - its one of the reasons why with "long" gearing and "just" the normal Carrera S engine its such a star in the real world.

On the multi-storey car parks - the car goes to Gatwick and a local multi and in both there's no issue. Having said that I do drive it "defensively" as having had a 340R which was properly low - learnt to get a left or right wheel up over the hump ASAP.

I went from a 997.2 Turbo PDK to the GT4 and have moved from the GT4 to an R8 V10+. Both the 997 Turbo and R8's suspension soak up bumps that would have you banging around in the GT4. It has the 918 Spyder seats and clubsport package (rear roll cage) - I wonder if both of these make a difference?

As for car parks, yes, it's the scratching of the plastic splitter that made me wince!

[GrahamAC]

Nimerino said:

My M2 really was a very stiff car, and the Comptetition, by all accounts, is even stiffer. There’s a qualitative difference here as well: although the GT4 is stiff, the quality of the damping makes even sharp oscillations feel like they’re being handled in a single, controlled movement. Even if the M2C is softer (which, again, I’m not sure it is) I’ve never driven a sporting BMW that combined that same feeling of ‘rolling’ over every bump rather than submitting to them with a shudder down your spine.

Well, my "get out of jail free" card here is that I did state I hadn't driven an M2 :-)

Ultimately it's a trade off. The GT4 felt absolutely glued to the road (Pilot Sport Cup 2 tyres) which helps hugely with cornering confidence but it is the stiffest sprung car I've owned (two 911 Turbos, a 911 Carrera, 2 M3s, an RS4, R400 etc etc).

[E65Ross]

QBee said:

The older I get, the less reason I see for all these 400+bhp cock-mobiles on the roads in the UK.

I think they'd be cock-mobiles if you were to drive it, by the sounds of it. I'm not condoning doing 130mph on a motorway with other people around, but to suggest you can never safely use the power in the UK is incorrect, in my opinion. I've driven faster cars than these and not had an issue exploiting the power, but you pick and choose where to do so.

[schaeffs]

GrahamAC said:

I went from a 997.2 Turbo PDK to the GT4 and have moved from the GT4 to an R8 V10+. Both the 997 Turbo and R8's suspension soak up bumps that would have you banging around in the GT4. It has the 918 Spyder seats and clubsport package (rear roll cage) - I wonder if both of these make a difference?

As for car parks, yes, it's the scratching of the plastic splitter that made me wince!

Must say I have had the opposite - I really don't find the car banging around at all, in fact it soaks up bumps that in other cars I've had didn't. The GT4 falls below the Scud, 340R, Focus RS and even M135i in Sport. Its stiff no doubt but never harsh. Interestingly I've driven a GT4 with roll cage and that made a racket - perhaps that added to the feeling of banging around? Both GT4s have 918 seats...

[peterpeter]

QBee said:

The older I get, the less reason I see for all these 400+bhp cock-mobiles on the roads in the UK.
No driver with average skills can drive one safely while actually using the power properly, never mind legally.

And I am getting fed up with having Mr Superb-right-headlights 3 feet from my tail at 70 at night on any dual carrigeway you care to mention, just because i decided to use the German lane for more than 10 seconds and he has an M3/RS6/C63.

Suggest to them that they take their £60grand cock-mobile on a track to really enjoy it safely and they turn tail and run.
Yet, as said earlier in this thread, it is the only place where it is actually safe to use that power.
They should try it some time - my TVR comes alive on a track, it is what it was designed for.
130 on the Bentley Straight at Snetterton is fun. 130 on the M1 is just dangerous.

What utter crap. I own both, and track them both
You will see loads of M2s and Gt4s on track nowadays.. probably far more than TVRs,
I did about 6 track days this year and saw loads - I only saw 1 TVR -
TBH 400bhp is not a lot in 1300- 1500 kg car. and probably about right nowadays.

To the person who said get an MX 5 instead - Ive had one of those- no thanks and driven a GT86.. fine for a bit of fun but painfully slow.
and wont be swapping either one of those.

[chromosome]

Honeywell said:

A Toyota GT86 or a Mazda MX5 are both more fun more of the time on most British roads and if you don’t measure your willy by the proxy of your sports car you can save an absolute fortune.

Just sayin’

Driven all four cars on British roads have you? I mean ... you are going to say yes to this but I or anyone else reading this might raise an eyebrow.

[DoubleD]

QBee said:

The older I get, the less reason I see for all these 400+bhp cock-mobiles on the roads in the UK.
No driver with average skills can drive one safely while actually using the power properly, never mind legally.

And I am getting fed up with having Mr Superb-right-headlights 3 feet from my tail at 70 at night on any dual carrigeway you care to mention, just because i decided to use the German lane for more than 10 seconds and he has an M3/RS6/C63.

Suggest to them that they take their £60grand cock-mobile on a track to really enjoy it safely and they turn tail and run.
Yet, as said earlier in this thread, it is the only place where it is actually safe to use that power.
They should try it some time - my TVR comes alive on a track, it is what it was designed for.
130 on the Bentley Straight at Snetterton is fun. 130 on the M1 is just dangerous.

Posts like this make you sound like a bit of a tool

[SidewaysSi]

chromosome said:

Honeywell said:

A Toyota GT86 or a Mazda MX5 are both more fun more of the time on most British roads and if you don’t measure your willy by the proxy of your sports car you can save an absolute fortune.

Just sayin’

Driven all four cars on British roads have you? I mean ... you are going to say yes to this but I or anyone else reading this might raise an eyebrow.

To be fair, he may have a point.

Whilst I have not done a back-to-back comparison of all those cars, in terms of sheer fun, I would rate an Elise and Caterham way way above a M2 or GT4 on road in the UK. And I did swap between them on the same day and same roads.

[thiscocks]

peterpeter said:

QBee said:

The older I get, the less reason I see for all these 400+bhp cock-mobiles on the roads in the UK.
No driver with average skills can drive one safely while actually using the power properly, never mind legally.

And I am getting fed up with having Mr Superb-right-headlights 3 feet from my tail at 70 at night on any dual carrigeway you care to mention, just because i decided to use the German lane for more than 10 seconds and he has an M3/RS6/C63.

Suggest to them that they take their £60grand cock-mobile on a track to really enjoy it safely and they turn tail and run.
Yet, as said earlier in this thread, it is the only place where it is actually safe to use that power.
They should try it some time - my TVR comes alive on a track, it is what it was designed for.
130 on the Bentley Straight at Snetterton is fun. 130 on the M1 is just dangerous.

What utter crap. I own both, and track them both
You will see loads of M2s and Gt4s on track nowadays.. probably far more than TVRs,
I did about 6 track days this year and saw loads - I only saw 1 TVR -
TBH 400bhp is not a lot in 1300- 1500 kg car. and probably about right nowadays.

It’s true though. For the most part the owners of M2 type cars will have no interest in taking it on a track and will probably only open it up on a motorway.

[DoubleD]

thiscocks said:

It’s true though. For the most part the owners of M2 type cars will have no interest in taking it on a track and will probably only open it up on a motorway.

Is that a fact?

[SidewaysSi]

DoubleD said:

thiscocks said:

It’s true though. For the most part the owners of M2 type cars will have no interest in taking it on a track and will probably only open it up on a motorway.

Is that a fact?

Pure fact of course

An M2 may not be a natural track car but I have certainly seen a good number on track. As for TVRs, I'm not convinced they would make decent track cars out of the box..

[CABC]

DoubleD said:

Is that a fact?

beyond reasonable doubt.
and those that do venture out will find their cars melting by end of the morning session.

[xjay1337]

CABC said:

beyond reasonable doubt.
and those that do venture out will find their cars melting by end of the morning session.

Really?
Can't see them being a problem. I have an m135i which has basically the same engine, same brakes etc. Some upgraded pads and it's done me fine for many trackdays ! :-)

[Gorbyrev]

Great read, many thanks and merry Christmas. As to the thought that 400hp is too much it reminds me of the debate when BMW released a 200hp S1000RR. Too much power without traction control for most of us mere mortals but manageable with modern driver aids and a little care.

[CABC]

xjay1337 said:

Really?
Can't see them being a problem. I have an m135i which has basically the same engine, same brakes etc. Some upgraded pads and it's done me fine for many trackdays ! :-)

then i shall bow to your real world knowledge
whenever i see newish M cars on track they do seem to melt tyres and brakes, and often have to leave after lunch. this maybe because they're inexperienced drivers over-driving the car and even leaving esc on to exacerbate wear?

[SidewaysSi]

I can say that 385 bhp in the GT4 is really dull so no, it's not enough!

[406dogvan]

My boss had an older Cayman S when the GT4 launched - he drooled over the power/accessories/fancy flat-bottomed wheel etc. but prices were silly/premiums were sillier and everyone was talking about it being a halo 'GT' car.

Last time I looked, the arse had fallen-out of prices - almost every dealer had 1 or 2 cars for-sale, some with "taken to your house and back" miles and all at about half the crazy premium prices which once were posted (I saw cars listed upto £140K - plenty over £100K)

Still not a cheap car (I saw an "actually been used" one dip under £70K last week) but clearly not holding the premium people might have hoped then?

I parked next to one recently - in that lovely blue - it's a nice thing, the spoiler is a BIT mad - it's not a GT2/3 in presence terms perhaps - still nice, but not £80K nice perhaps

[Don Colione]

peterpeter said:

and driven a GT86.. fine for a bit of fun but painfully slow.

Don't forget that owning a car is a far different proposition than just a drive... Imagine that "bit of fun" multiplied by every drive, on the "painfully slow" normal roads we use everyday.... Lol I also think that you are exaggerating a bit when you say it is "painfully" slow...


The GT4 is better statistically, but not as FUN/exciting overall (on the road) because of those statistically unapproachable limits..

The couple of seconds you lose in time isn't worth the asking price of the faster cars. That is just what most are saying when they laud the GT-86.... It is punching way above its weight, on much lesser tires than its "competition".


For those that need a 'proper education' on the GT-86 I suggest -

Chris Harris review 5' min mark... - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=romf-G6CZ7g
Chris Harris GT-86 VS. Nissan 370Z v Used Porsche Cayman S on a back road - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JUhLXvxlQR4
GT-86 VS. F12 Berlinetta on track - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uTDtUG-rVfA
GT-86(auto) Vs. 997 Carrera S backroad assessment - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r-LAKGtkri8


Time has moved on.... expensive, too-fast, "supercars" are becoming redundant for truly exciting driving that you can do at "pedestrian" speeds...

Small size is what ultimately matters in a true sports car, not "bigger" everything.


I personally started calling those mega-wide, super-expensive, heavy, and unusable super and hypercars - "Dinosaurs".... They might be super predators, but their environment (the public road) is quickly becoming more uninhabitable by the day, with all the speed cameras, police, deer, traffic, and other safety hazards that make their existence increasingly "pointless".....

If you notice on youtube, the new thing is "drag race" videos, on an empty runway or racetrack. That is the only way marketers can now demonstrate the capabilities most modern machinery. They cannot put that power down on the public road.


How many times in regular life do most flat out floor the throttle, as in a 0-60 situation; compared to regular sedated cruising, just enjoying the 'sensations' of driving?


All of this is keeping in mind that most can, and do, own multiple cars.... so just get and drive what you like; it is a great time to be alive with the new and used choices drivers have at their disposal!

[anonymous-user]

Oh, for god's sake. The GT86 is a cut price white elephant. It's slow, cheap and, well, not very popular for a reason.

Comparing it to a GT4 is like saying Pat Butcher is better than Camaron Diaz, once the lights are off.