RE: Cupra Ateca vs. Alfa Romeo Stelvio Quadrifoglio

[ghost83]

Don’t like either and anyone who puts 60-70k into an Alfa is mental

Much rather have a macan or the x3 m40

[samoht]

firebird350 said:

Are all these SUV's such great powerhouses? ... the surprise was that a 154 BHP, 1250kg, 5-cylinder 20 year-old coupe could live, under those particular road conditions, with a 310 BHP, V10, Twin Turbo THING like that with twice the horsepower and twice the no. of cylinders...

It was great fun though!

These kind of impromptu matchups can be great fun indeed.

However, the V10 Touareg comes from the previous generation of SUVs, and is much clumsier on the road than something like a Stelvio would be - I think engineers have made big strides in the last decade in making big, heavy, tall cars go fast across country.

[DeltonaS]

Nerdherder said:

Love love love the Stelvio and Giulia. Went to the dealer to select my spec of Giulia Super, left the place horrified because of the orange peel FACTORY paintjob. Ended up with a 3 series instead. If Alfa could get their sh£t together quality wise they would be killing it with the current rwd models.

Orange peel, o my dear, you sound like a little girl not getting her manicure.

Who cares. I'd say nothing better than orange, but hey, that might be me.

The new 3 series by the way looks like a Lexus. How are you going to peel that off...;)

[Helicopter123]

DeltonaS said:

Nerdherder said:

Love love love the Stelvio and Giulia. Went to the dealer to select my spec of Giulia Super, left the place horrified because of the orange peel FACTORY paintjob. Ended up with a 3 series instead. If Alfa could get their sh£t together quality wise they would be killing it with the current rwd models.

Orange peel, o my dear, you sound like a little girl not getting her manicure.

Who cares. I'd say nothing better than orange, but hey, that might be me.

The new 3 series by the way looks like a Lexus. How are you going to peel that off...;)

3 series always a very competent performer, but hardly one you choose with the heart.

[Phil Dicky]

Robert-nszl1 said:

The Prof said:

I’m one of those nutters that sunk 70k + into a stelvio quad and don’t regret it for a single moment.

What an epic machine.

Well done that man! SUVs get a lot of stick on here, but this seems to have character by the bucket load

Would be the SUV I would buy.

[silentbrown]

samoht said:

However, the V10 Touareg comes from the previous generation of SUVs, and is much clumsier on the road than something like a Stelvio would be - I think engineers have made big strides in the last decade in making big, heavy, tall cars go fast across country.

The V10 Touareg has a kerb weight of 2600KG, vs "just" 1800Kg for the Stelvio.... Touareg would need well over 700BHP for the same power/weight ratio, rather than a piffling 300.

[Uncle John]

Helicopter123 said:

DeltonaS said:

Nerdherder said:

Love love love the Stelvio and Giulia. Went to the dealer to select my spec of Giulia Super, left the place horrified because of the orange peel FACTORY paintjob. Ended up with a 3 series instead. If Alfa could get their sh£t together quality wise they would be killing it with the current rwd models.

Orange peel, o my dear, you sound like a little girl not getting her manicure.

Who cares. I'd say nothing better than orange, but hey, that might be me.

The new 3 series by the way looks like a Lexus. How are you going to peel that off...;)

3 series always a very competent performer, but hardly one you choose with the heart.

& orange peel is a standard BMW option, has been for years.

[Panjy]

I find it hard to be surprised or impressed that a £70k 510hp car is faster / better than a £35k 300hp car.
However, if i was going to spend £70k on an Alfa i’d go for that same engine in a much better looking and significantly lighter package, the Giulia Quadrifoglio.

[PhilboSE]

big_rob_sydney said:

firebird350 said:

Are all these SUV's such great powerhouses? I happened to follow a VW Touareg up Porlock Hill leading onto Exmoor one rainy day early on in 2018 and bearing in mind I was behind the wheel of a normally-aspirated Fiat Coupe 20V I was fully expecting to be left for dead by the Touareg, sporting as it did its proud V10 badge on the rear, especially as the VW seemed to be in a fair old hurry.

To my surprise, although I had to work at it over that twisty ten miles of moorland A39, the Fiat held onto the VW all ten miles to Lynton & Lynmouth. The Touareg was, I must admit, spectacular to watch as the driver (who obviously knew the road as well as I do) used every available inch to manhandle his behemoth across the roof of Exmoor as if it were a galloping rhinoceros which had had (to quote a certain Mr.Clarkson) "some mustard stuck up its bottom". These things can certainly be made to dance though from the view I had dead astern.

However, the surprise was that a 154 BHP, 1250kg, 5-cylinder 20 year-old coupe could live, under those particular road conditions, with a 310 BHP, V10, Twin Turbo THING like that with twice the horsepower and twice the no. of cylinders. Don't get me wrong as I'm sure in a straight-line dash the Fiat wouldn't see which way the VW went but somehow up there on Exmoor that day all the relevant figures just went out the window.

It was great fun though!

And if you'd had a rally rep with 1250 kg and 300-400 bhp? Power to weight shouldn't be dismissed. I get that the big VW has an enormous engine, but it also has a lot of weight to lug around, negatively accelerate, and store energy into its braking system, along with coping with the additional weight penalty through the corners. I don't imagine for a moment that it could hold a candle to even a normal rally rep on a circuit, let alone one where an owner might be interested to optimise handling.

And what if you wanted to ferry 4 people around in comfort? The rally rep or 2 seater coupe would be hopeless...

I just don't understand why people try to compare an SUV with a sports car. No-one is suggesting that an SUV with fancy suspension and a big engine is a sports car. They have entirely different purposes. There is simply no point asserting that SUVs aren't as good/fun as sports cars - they're not supposed to be.

Seems that some people just can't get past that fact. It's all about compromises - any car is specific set of compromises - and each market segment makes different choices.

[Pica-Pica]

firebird350 said:

Are all these SUV's such great powerhouses? I happened to follow a VW Touareg up Porlock Hill leading onto Exmoor one rainy day early on in 2018 and bearing in mind I was behind the wheel of a normally-aspirated Fiat Coupe 20V I was fully expecting to be left for dead by the Touareg, sporting as it did its proud V10 badge on the rear, especially as the VW seemed to be in a fair old hurry.

To my surprise, although I had to work at it over that twisty ten miles of moorland A39, the Fiat held onto the VW all ten miles to Lynton & Lynmouth. The Touareg was, I must admit, spectacular to watch as the driver (who obviously knew the road as well as I do) used every available inch to manhandle his behemoth across the roof of Exmoor as if it were a galloping rhinoceros which had had (to quote a certain Mr.Clarkson) "some mustard stuck up its bottom". These things can certainly be made to dance though from the view I had dead astern.

However, the surprise was that a 154 BHP, 1250kg, 5-cylinder 20 year-old coupe could live, under those particular road conditions, with a 310 BHP, V10, Twin Turbo THING like that with twice the horsepower and twice the no. of cylinders. Don't get me wrong as I'm sure in a straight-line dash the Fiat wouldn't see which way the VW went but somehow up there on Exmoor that day all the relevant figures just went out the window.

It was great fun though!

Easy to keep up with big cars cross-country. A non-story.

[evenflow]

Am I alone in liking the Ateca? Probably, but I don't care.

Yes I know I could get an equivalent lower riding, lighter, better-centre-of-gravity hatchback for the same money, but I'm not trying to knock two-tenths off my commute in the morning or pull 2g round the Tesco roundabout.

I want something that's not going to rip it's arse out over potholes and speed bumps but has some poke when I'm in the mood.

Should funds allow, I'd have a Macan Turbo for example.

[samoht]

PhilboSE said:

And what if you wanted to ferry 4 people around in comfort? The rally rep or 2 seater coupe would be hopeless...

A previous colleague of mine had an Evo V. He drove myself and two other colleagues (so 4 up) for an hour each way - no complaints were heard, and the point-blank overtaking ability came in handy to nip past a couple of dawdlers. I mean, it basically *is* a minicab bodyshell, and the normal-car level of practicality is part of the appeal.

I can see the appeal of SUVs, but and there is a narrow practicality benefit, but you can perfectly well transport four adults in a rally homologation special.

[just passing by]

I suspect that most PHers don't "get" SUVs. I certainly don't. I admire the RR SVR's theoretical victory over the laws of physics, but couldn't imagine buying one even if I had 100k to burn. So while I enjoyed this article, I just don't think that most of us lot are the target audience for either the Stelvio QF or the Ateca..

[MellowshipSlinky]

ghost83 said:

Don’t like either and anyone who puts 60-70k into an Alfa is mental

Much rather have a macan or the x3 m40

Mental, or perhaps just don’t want to follow the herd and have a mind of their own?

If I had that much money to sink into an SUV it’d be the Alfa, with the Macan (such a boring looking car if ever there was one) as a runner up.
The BMW wouldn’t even get a thought.

[el romeral]

The Seat looks bogging from every angle. Love the Alfa but not the wheels - they just look way too open in their design. All you notice is the brakes, can't really see the point of that?

[BVB]

The ALFA is in a totally different league! Wolf Vs Sheep, Zeus Vs Achilles, Positive Vs Negative etc etc

[Chestrockwell]

MellowshipSlinky said:

ghost83 said:

Don’t like either and anyone who puts 60-70k into an Alfa is mental

Much rather have a macan or the x3 m40

Mental, or perhaps just don’t want to follow the herd and have a mind of their own?

If I had that much money to sink into an SUV it’d be the Alfa, with the Macan (such a boring looking car if ever there was one) as a runner up.
The BMW wouldn’t even get a thought.

To me it’s more about the dealer network and the terrible reviews you hear of the aftersales.

All cars depreciate but I get a feeling a 3 year old X3 M40i would be a lot easier to shift than a 3 year old stelvio and retain a lot more money, hence, I’d never sink 60-70k into one. I guess if you can afford the hit or not worry about part ex values, then yeah.

Who would want a 3 year old 510 bhp complicated Alfa out of warranty?

[DoubleD]

kambites said:

Hmm, the one thing which struck me was just how similar they look overall. The Alfa has a few interesting design details, but by and large they're both incredibly bland looking vehicles. I was expecting the Alfa to look fabulous next to the Seat but no my eyes it just doesn't.

Mind you I've found that with a few recent Alfas. Many people seem to think they look great but to me they look almost exactly the same as the competition, just with a different corporate awkwardly face grafted on; the exception being the 4C which is just ugly to my eyes.

Someone just down the road from me has recently replaced an XF-R with a Giulia QF and the Alfa is astonishingly anonymous looking (not helped by the fact that it's white).

Edited by kambites on Friday 28th December 08:45

This

[MellowshipSlinky]

Chestrockwell said:

MellowshipSlinky said:

ghost83 said:

Don’t like either and anyone who puts 60-70k into an Alfa is mental

Much rather have a macan or the x3 m40

Mental, or perhaps just don’t want to follow the herd and have a mind of their own?

If I had that much money to sink into an SUV it’d be the Alfa, with the Macan (such a boring looking car if ever there was one) as a runner up.
The BMW wouldn’t even get a thought.

To me it’s more about the dealer network and the terrible reviews you hear of the aftersales.

All cars depreciate but I get a feeling a 3 year old X3 M40i would be a lot easier to shift than a 3 year old stelvio and retain a lot more money, hence, I’d never sink 60-70k into one. I guess if you can afford the hit or not worry about part ex values, then yeah.

Who would want a 3 year old 510 bhp complicated Alfa out of warranty?

I’ve had far better dealings with Alfa than I have with BMW dealers.... but I take your point re resale.
I wouldn’t want to run any BMW without a warranty either - they break just as much as any other car.

The Stelvio probably isn’t a car you buy with your head, or one you buy to keep up with the Jones’s.

[DoubleD]

MellowshipSlinky said:

The Stelvio probably isn’t a car you buy with your head, or one you buy to keep up with the Jones’s.

Its just another SUV. I have no issue with them if thats what people want. They are bought by the same sort of people for the same sorts of reasons as every other SUV.