RE: Volkswagen Passat R36: PH Used Buying Guide
Discussion
Krikkit said:
st4 said:
Meridius said:
the GT-nature of these cars.
That's what makes them so tempting. They offer a taste of something much more exotic in something you can use every day without standing out like a sore thumb and costing a bomb in buying and running. It'll be a pleasant car to drive but not demanding like an Elise or focused like a Porsche or BMW M product. Cars like this really punch above their price point IMHO. A passat in terms of comfort is not far off an E Class Merc,and with an engine like this is nicer than all of them bar the AMG's - all this at a price for a miserable 4 cylinder engined E/5/A6 hire car pilot PCP special.
Another 80 odd bhp and only 100 kilos heavier.
i would have said 3 to 6 grand for these
st4 said:
But they're not got remotely sensible running costs.
Diesel cars like the 320/350cdi have ruinous repair costs. I've had 3 V6 diesel mercs all of which with diesel related faults that ran into four figures on several occasions with each and every one - relating to swirl motors, manifolds, turbo seals, dpfs, adbue faults - given nothing else went wrong on the Mercs bar an airmatic fault it's safe to conclude the unreliability and high running costs stemmed from being diesel fueled.
That could have bought a lot of petrol and I'd have had the bonus of driving a car that was refined and sonorous and less hassle to actually own.
I have a Lexus 250 V6 and not one fault from the engine and it does nearly 40mpg when cruising and roars like a lion when you give it the beans. Ok The mercs would do 50mpg and go a bit faster, but who cares. The petrol is just nicer.
A diesel V6 Merc just shakes when idling, smells and gargles slightly unpleasantly when you rev it. The petrol is silent when idling, practically, doesn't stink and makes a great noise and is simpler to maintain and run. I'll never have another diesel car.
I've had & supplied a lot of Mercedes 3.0d engines & have suffered none of the issue you talk of & that's having put over 100k on them with no issues.Diesel cars like the 320/350cdi have ruinous repair costs. I've had 3 V6 diesel mercs all of which with diesel related faults that ran into four figures on several occasions with each and every one - relating to swirl motors, manifolds, turbo seals, dpfs, adbue faults - given nothing else went wrong on the Mercs bar an airmatic fault it's safe to conclude the unreliability and high running costs stemmed from being diesel fueled.
That could have bought a lot of petrol and I'd have had the bonus of driving a car that was refined and sonorous and less hassle to actually own.
I have a Lexus 250 V6 and not one fault from the engine and it does nearly 40mpg when cruising and roars like a lion when you give it the beans. Ok The mercs would do 50mpg and go a bit faster, but who cares. The petrol is just nicer.
A diesel V6 Merc just shakes when idling, smells and gargles slightly unpleasantly when you rev it. The petrol is silent when idling, practically, doesn't stink and makes a great noise and is simpler to maintain and run. I'll never have another diesel car.
Edited by st4 on Thursday 3rd January 10:34
Funnily enough two of the Lexus IS250's I've supplied have developed starting issues which is a fault that's been more common in the states but results in a 2k bill & the water pump is another thing to be aware of.
I've found all cars have issues no matter what the drivetrain, my personal view is it's a combination of cars being made more cheaply (as an example timing chains having to be replaced) & service intervals being to far apart.
ZX10R NIN said:
I've had & supplied a lot of Mercedes 3.0d engines & have suffered none of the issue you talk of & that's having put over 100k on them with no issues.
Funnily enough two of the Lexus IS250's I've supplied have developed starting issues which is a fault that's been more common in the states but results in a 2k bill & the water pump is another thing to be aware of.
I've found all cars have issues no matter what the drivetrain, my personal view is it's a combination of cars being made more cheaply (as an example timing chains having to be replaced) & service intervals being to far apart.
Everyone I know who's had an OM642 engined Merc has had serious issues. Some I've heard have stretched chains, there's the dreaded oil cooler seal fault which is a cheap part but expensive labour wise. I've had to change swirl flap motors, manifold all below 80k miles, injector faults, random sensor faults. I've had lots of cars and the only ones that gave trouble where the OM642 engined cars. The bluetech is particular bad at having issues with adblue. Funnily enough two of the Lexus IS250's I've supplied have developed starting issues which is a fault that's been more common in the states but results in a 2k bill & the water pump is another thing to be aware of.
I've found all cars have issues no matter what the drivetrain, my personal view is it's a combination of cars being made more cheaply (as an example timing chains having to be replaced) & service intervals being to far apart.
On the owners forum re the Lexus none have had an issue, very few issues with them until the gearbox gets on a bit but with a cast iron warranty these Lexus are truly painless to own, and nicer to drive.
st4 said:
Krikkit said:
Not true, you could get a mint V6 or V8-engined non-AMG W211 in any shape of this age with change. Just as fast, if not faster, more comfortable. It's also knocking on the price of the W211 E55's as well, which is a whole different ballgame.
They're proper rust buckets - and I've owned w 211 E Classes. They all have scabby arches, even the 07 onwards ones. Nice cars otherwise I will give you that. The V6 petrol (350) munches balancer shafts, the older 320 is bomb proof but comes with SBC brakes and even more rust. Even if you ignore the V6, would you say no to a V8 for a chunk less than these? That's not to mention the mechatronic and other VAG-issues the Passat will have.
Krikkit said:
I really like the R36, but I think you'd be mad to buy one at their current prices - the ones I've seen are about £10k, which gets you a minty B7 S4 with a V8, and a smidge under the leggy B8 S4 with the supercharged V6.
I nearly bought one in August but for £10k I got a much newer, lower mileage and better specced petrol XF than the VW's on the market. Not the same thing, granted, but running costs aren't much different.st4 said:
I have a Lexus 250 V6 and not one fault from the engine and it does nearly 40mpg when cruising and roars like a lion when you give it the beans. Ok The mercs would do 50mpg and go a bit faster, but who cares. The petrol is just nicer.
A diesel V6 Merc just shakes when idling, smells and gargles slightly unpleasantly when you rev it. The petrol is silent when idling, practically, doesn't stink and makes a great noise and is simpler to maintain and run.
I've stuck with V8 Merc's for the last 15 years and 120k miles. They sound great, are turbine smooth and are pretty much bullet proof. A diesel V6 Merc just shakes when idling, smells and gargles slightly unpleasantly when you rev it. The petrol is silent when idling, practically, doesn't stink and makes a great noise and is simpler to maintain and run.
In terms of what goes wrong they all eventually need a crank sensor - but that's not a Merc-specific thing. And I had some minor ignition issues with one of the 4.3's - but again it was a couple of third party leads and a coil pack. The crankshaft pulley went on the 5.0 at about 130k - that's a known issue.
As long as you throw petrol at them and occasionally a large number of spark plugs you're fine ;-)
AC43 said:
I've stuck with V8 Merc's for the last 15 years and 120k miles. They sound great, are turbine smooth and are pretty much bullet proof.
In terms of what goes wrong they all eventually need a crank sensor - but that's not a Merc-specific thing. And I had some minor ignition issues with one of the 4.3's - but again it was a couple of third party leads and a coil pack. The crankshaft pulley went on the 5.0 at about 130k - that's a known issue.
As long as you throw petrol at them and occasionally a large number of spark plugs you're fine ;-)
The older V8 Mercs are amazing but the diesels are crap, not BMW unreliably bad, but still bad.In terms of what goes wrong they all eventually need a crank sensor - but that's not a Merc-specific thing. And I had some minor ignition issues with one of the 4.3's - but again it was a couple of third party leads and a coil pack. The crankshaft pulley went on the 5.0 at about 130k - that's a known issue.
As long as you throw petrol at them and occasionally a large number of spark plugs you're fine ;-)
The newer post 2006 engines starting with M272 and M273 are ok if you get the balancer shaft thing fixed. Leaking coolant from radiator can cause havoc in some 5spd boxes but a new radiator fixes that. it's the rust, man these things rust in a way modern cars just don't.
st4 said:
AC43 said:
I've stuck with V8 Merc's for the last 15 years and 120k miles. They sound great, are turbine smooth and are pretty much bullet proof.
In terms of what goes wrong they all eventually need a crank sensor - but that's not a Merc-specific thing. And I had some minor ignition issues with one of the 4.3's - but again it was a couple of third party leads and a coil pack. The crankshaft pulley went on the 5.0 at about 130k - that's a known issue.
As long as you throw petrol at them and occasionally a large number of spark plugs you're fine ;-)
The older V8 Mercs are amazing but the diesels are crap, not BMW unreliably bad, but still bad.In terms of what goes wrong they all eventually need a crank sensor - but that's not a Merc-specific thing. And I had some minor ignition issues with one of the 4.3's - but again it was a couple of third party leads and a coil pack. The crankshaft pulley went on the 5.0 at about 130k - that's a known issue.
As long as you throw petrol at them and occasionally a large number of spark plugs you're fine ;-)
The newer post 2006 engines starting with M272 and M273 are ok if you get the balancer shaft thing fixed. Leaking coolant from radiator can cause havoc in some 5spd boxes but a new radiator fixes that. it's the rust, man these things rust in a way modern cars just don't.
EDIT; confirmed. I had a great trip up to Applecross just over a year ago which spurred a return trip for a week last Easter in Achnashellach. Amazing weather and views. Kept having to stop every 100 yard to take it all in.
Edited by AC43 on Thursday 3rd January 13:51
Bought mine a couple of years ago for a steal around $9k AUD (5kGBP). It's been a cracking car.
Fuel economy not great and servicing expensive. Only issues so far are one headlight blown and the fuel sensors fail.
It still ticks so many boxes for me however and will be my daily for a while.
Fuel economy not great and servicing expensive. Only issues so far are one headlight blown and the fuel sensors fail.
It still ticks so many boxes for me however and will be my daily for a while.
AC43 said:
Hey - I've just noticed I'm talking to ST4 - haven't seen you around for quite a while. You're the fellah who used to be on the other forum that does all the cool landscape photography?
EDIT; confirmed. I had a great trip up to Applecross just over a year ago which spurred a return trip for a week last Easter in Achnashellach. Amazing weather and views. Kept having to stop every 100 yard to take it all in.
Thats's now my full time work EDIT; confirmed. I had a great trip up to Applecross just over a year ago which spurred a return trip for a week last Easter in Achnashellach. Amazing weather and views. Kept having to stop every 100 yard to take it all in.
Edited by AC43 on Thursday 3rd January 13:51
Sure is nice up there - been a long time since I've actually been. Guiding people round Glencoe and Skye seems my bread and butter...
www.sftphotography.co.uk
Check the blog if you liked my old touring threads. It is on the same vein.
st4 said:
AC43 said:
Hey - I've just noticed I'm talking to ST4 - haven't seen you around for quite a while. You're the fellah who used to be on the other forum that does all the cool landscape photography?
EDIT; confirmed. I had a great trip up to Applecross just over a year ago which spurred a return trip for a week last Easter in Achnashellach. Amazing weather and views. Kept having to stop every 100 yard to take it all in.
Thats's now my full time work EDIT; confirmed. I had a great trip up to Applecross just over a year ago which spurred a return trip for a week last Easter in Achnashellach. Amazing weather and views. Kept having to stop every 100 yard to take it all in.
Edited by AC43 on Thursday 3rd January 13:51
Sure is nice up there - been a long time since I've actually been. Guiding people round Glencoe and Skye seems my bread and butter...
www.sftphotography.co.uk
Check the blog if you liked my old touring threads. It is on the same vein.
donkmeister said:
They did a Skoda version too - same 3.6 hardware but with 260bhp firmware. Same 4wd, same transmission, same inexplicably high cost-badge ratio etc.
Rare as hens teeth but a delightful car I imagine.The Superb now comes with the engine out of the Golf R. Not a powerplant that's as nice as a 6 pot, but still a decent engine for the car.
I had a black R36 estate for a while after selling our much loved SQ5 , never really gelled that well with the R36 to be honest as it was a great mile muncher but for it doing the same fuel economy wise as our old B8 S4 I know which car I would have rather been in .
The R36 still is a very rare sight on the roads and I do still have that eBay search alert set up ( but don’t know why tbh ) , just nice too see the odd one come up now and again
Bernie_78 said:
This article makes me sad, such wierdly obscure "lets take this engine and chuck it in that family car" will die out I'm sure.
Agreed. Why on earth they can't make a current Passat R, would surely be a piece of p**s to hook up.Clearly the market has spoken..... sadly
I had a Passat W8 which had to go due to the high mileage in the new job.
I've also owned a 156GTA, Saab 9-3 TurboX, Golf R Wagon and looked at an R36 Passat (when I plumped for the Saab instead)
There's a lot to be said for a car that looks subtle but carries a big stick..... and has an engine bay you can't squeeze a rizla into.
Edited by Hackney on Thursday 3rd January 17:11
V8RX7 said:
So it's not fun to drive, it's not that fast, it has no image, it's not cheap t buy or run... no wonder they didn't sell many.
Just like the W8
It is quite fast, and cheap to buy (new at the time) and running costs aren't Porsche/BMW/Mercedes dealer prices. It's also more discrete, more conspicuous which matters a lot to a lot of people. Just like the W8
Edited by st4 on Thursday 3rd January 17:42
Robmarriott said:
Volkswagen also put the 3.6 in the EOS as a front wheel drive only 260bhp model.
I thought they used the 3.2 in the Eos.Anyway, I had the choice between an R36 and a Saab Turbo X, I went with the Saab. Similar stats as the Passat but IMHO a better looking car (especially with the Turbo X wheels) and Saab set-up the Haldex 4WD to be rear biased.
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