RE: Schumacher at 50: Time For Tea
Discussion
Cold said:
BlackPrince said:
Augustus Windsock said:
deliberately skiing off-piste where he shouldn’t have
He was skiing off-piste Not exactly some sheer cliff or super gnarly rock face with a mere dusting of snow covering it.
I’m very familiar with the Les Trois Vallees area where the accident happened, I have skied there for years.
It isn’t even vaguely ‘off piste’ in the way you would imagine.
It’s fractionally off to the side of a couple of well groomed slopes.
He wasn’t doing anything dangerous at all in my opinion. Just staggeringly unlucky to fall over right where there was a rock to hit his head on.
Augustus Windsock said:
And the worst cheat; taking out Damon Hill, trying to take out Villeneuve, ‘parking’ his car in the middle of the track at Monaco
Not forgetting the time he claimed to be able to modulate the throttle just using his sensitive little foot TWELVE TIMES PER SECOND (think you’ll find that was the traction control you weren’t allowed to have Michael but which Ferraro managed to get around by getting FIA to say they couldn’t prove it was used even though it was fitted..)
Great driver?
Undoubtedly
Great cheat?
Indubitably.
Personally I really cant like or admire him, but that said, I sincerely hope that he makes a recovery from the injuries he received whilst skiing.
As an aside, I was musing over the greatest drivers of the last 40yrs, and came up with Lauda, Prost, Senna, Schumacher.
Of those, I’d guess Senna is loved the most, because whilst all of them were single-minded and arrogant, only Senna seemed to have the common touch and a sort of vulnerability that endeared him to fans.
I stand to be corrected, of course...
Please don't mention Damon Hill and MS in the same sentence. One, a multiple world champion, genuine team leader and pulled remarkable results never seen on a race track, the other, not. I lost all respect for Damon when he bottled it and signed for Arrows, then refused to race, that's not what champions are made of. I recall being in the minority supporting MS through the whole 'we love Damon era'. Not forgetting the time he claimed to be able to modulate the throttle just using his sensitive little foot TWELVE TIMES PER SECOND (think you’ll find that was the traction control you weren’t allowed to have Michael but which Ferraro managed to get around by getting FIA to say they couldn’t prove it was used even though it was fitted..)
Great driver?
Undoubtedly
Great cheat?
Indubitably.
Personally I really cant like or admire him, but that said, I sincerely hope that he makes a recovery from the injuries he received whilst skiing.
As an aside, I was musing over the greatest drivers of the last 40yrs, and came up with Lauda, Prost, Senna, Schumacher.
Of those, I’d guess Senna is loved the most, because whilst all of them were single-minded and arrogant, only Senna seemed to have the common touch and a sort of vulnerability that endeared him to fans.
I stand to be corrected, of course...
Gandahar said:
You seem to forget that man from the paved with gold streets of Stevenage....
Hamilton matched Alonso, one of the greatest drivers of his generation, in the same car in 2007.
Rosberg beat Schumacher whilst at Mercedes handily
Hamilton then beat Rosberg at Mercedes.
No Lewis in your list?
Of course what makes a great driver a great driver depends on your definition of great,
MS was not someone you could love as a champ, considering how he went about his business, but he made the most of a fantastic Ferrari team at the time.
All the best champ.
Schumacher was at the end of his career when Rosberg 'beat' him. Lewis is not someone you can like as a champ, for sure, it means nothing. I will say though that modern F1 is nowhere near the challenge that it was. So many advances in the cars and driver support, it's a different sport. For me, Schumacher will always be the king of what I consider to be the peak of F1.Hamilton matched Alonso, one of the greatest drivers of his generation, in the same car in 2007.
Rosberg beat Schumacher whilst at Mercedes handily
Hamilton then beat Rosberg at Mercedes.
No Lewis in your list?
Of course what makes a great driver a great driver depends on your definition of great,
MS was not someone you could love as a champ, considering how he went about his business, but he made the most of a fantastic Ferrari team at the time.
All the best champ.
Arguing over who's the best is rather pointless in a formula where all the cars are different, even between team mates. Put all the drivers in identical cars and see who comes out on top.
Oh, wait, they did that in the eighties (Mercedes 190 Cosworths, Senna won, ahead of the class of contemporary and past F1 drivers). And Procar before that: BMW M1s (Lauda and Piquet the stars, but many lesser-known F1 drivers also shone).
Jim Clark (double world champion, '63 & '65), who frustratingly died just months before I (and MS) was born, was quick in anything: Ford Cortina, Sportscars, Indy, F1.
It would be interesting to see how the likes of Hamilton got on in a real car.
But I'm getting away from the point: happy birthday Michael.
Oh, wait, they did that in the eighties (Mercedes 190 Cosworths, Senna won, ahead of the class of contemporary and past F1 drivers). And Procar before that: BMW M1s (Lauda and Piquet the stars, but many lesser-known F1 drivers also shone).
Jim Clark (double world champion, '63 & '65), who frustratingly died just months before I (and MS) was born, was quick in anything: Ford Cortina, Sportscars, Indy, F1.
It would be interesting to see how the likes of Hamilton got on in a real car.
But I'm getting away from the point: happy birthday Michael.
yonex said:
Schumacher was at the end of his career when Rosberg 'beat' him. Lewis is not someone you can like as a champ, for sure, it means nothing. I will say though that modern F1 is nowhere near the challenge that it was. So many advances in the cars and driver support, it's a different sport. For me, Schumacher will always be the king of what I consider to be the peak of F1.
It's your opinion so nobody can argue with it but have you ever noticed the everbody thinks that the music that was around when they were 17 was better than everything before and after?The 90s wasn't peak F1, it was peak you.
yonex said:
Schumacher was at the end of his career when Rosberg 'beat' him. Lewis is not someone you can like as a champ, for sure, it means nothing. I will say though that modern F1 is nowhere near the challenge that it was. So many advances in the cars and driver support, it's a different sport. For me, Schumacher will always be the king of what I consider to be the peak of F1.
Schumacher and Ferrari were allegedly cheats, and will always be known for that.Ferrari International Assistance were always there for him.
Lewis is the real deal. No need for FIA assistance.
Edited by lbc on Thursday 3rd January 22:47
I never really took to Schumacher or Ferrari for that matter but you can't argue with his racing achievements, dirty b
d comes to mind who would do anything to win,as would Ferrari a perfect partnership those two...I used to love it when he got beat I'd never seen such a sour face.
I really do hope he makes a recovery though him and his family must be going through hell.
d comes to mind who would do anything to win,as would Ferrari a perfect partnership those two...I used to love it when he got beat I'd never seen such a sour face.I really do hope he makes a recovery though him and his family must be going through hell.
Augustus Windsock said:
Wow, I am a dhead?
Hmmm, surely pot/kettle as you fail to recognise that it was him being a dhead that led to his accident, deliberately skiing off-piste where he shouldn’t have
I’d guess his sheer arrogance would have made him think that he was as bulletproof as when he was racing (and no, I wouldn’t wish such an accident on anyone)
Not quite sure how Senna would be classed the same other than his ‘incident’ with Prost.
Having said that, in the film ‘Senna’, Prost did say he thought Senna was dangerous because he thought he was immortal (or words to that effect)
While your original comment didn't really make you a dhead?Hmmm, surely pot/kettle as you fail to recognise that it was him being a d
head that led to his accident, deliberately skiing off-piste where he shouldn’t have I’d guess his sheer arrogance would have made him think that he was as bulletproof as when he was racing (and no, I wouldn’t wish such an accident on anyone)
Not quite sure how Senna would be classed the same other than his ‘incident’ with Prost.
Having said that, in the film ‘Senna’, Prost did say he thought Senna was dangerous because he thought he was immortal (or words to that effect)
head, this one proved that you indeed are one. Clearly showing your bias against Schumacher by somehow suggesting that he got what he deserved. You clearly don't have a clue what off piste skiing is. He was skiing through two on piste sections and probably didn't even realise he had gone off piste. God I hate know it all types when they don't have the foggiest notion what they are talking about.
Augustus Windsock said:
And the worst cheat; taking out Damon Hill, trying to take out Villeneuve, ‘parking’ his car in the middle of the track at Monaco
Not forgetting the time he claimed to be able to modulate the throttle just using his sensitive little foot TWELVE TIMES PER SECOND (think you’ll find that was the traction control you weren’t allowed to have Michael but which Ferraro managed to get around by getting FIA to say they couldn’t prove it was used even though it was fitted..)
Great driver?
Undoubtedly
Great cheat?
Indubitably.
Personally I really cant like or admire him, but that said, I sincerely hope that he makes a recovery from the injuries he received whilst skiing.
As an aside, I was musing over the greatest drivers of the last 40yrs, and came up with Lauda, Prost, Senna, Schumacher.
Of those, I’d guess Senna is loved the most, because whilst all of them were single-minded and arrogant, only Senna seemed to have the common touch and a sort of vulnerability that endeared him to fans.
I stand to be corrected, of course...
I agree with all of the above bar none of it.Not forgetting the time he claimed to be able to modulate the throttle just using his sensitive little foot TWELVE TIMES PER SECOND (think you’ll find that was the traction control you weren’t allowed to have Michael but which Ferraro managed to get around by getting FIA to say they couldn’t prove it was used even though it was fitted..)
Great driver?
Undoubtedly
Great cheat?
Indubitably.
Personally I really cant like or admire him, but that said, I sincerely hope that he makes a recovery from the injuries he received whilst skiing.
As an aside, I was musing over the greatest drivers of the last 40yrs, and came up with Lauda, Prost, Senna, Schumacher.
Of those, I’d guess Senna is loved the most, because whilst all of them were single-minded and arrogant, only Senna seemed to have the common touch and a sort of vulnerability that endeared him to fans.
I stand to be corrected, of course...
IMO Senna was the best ever, so much talent, heart and emotion.
He was always fair even when in Japan when Balestre put him on the dirty side of the grid so his friend, Prost got the upper hand, BTW, I was old enough to watch it live and remember it well. I'd have done the same if I had the balls to total an F1 car live on TV on purpose!!!!
I admired Schumacher but there are a few major tints to that all mentioned above, he was too ruthless in his career and in that I believe he flaunted the rules a few times...…………………. the passion that Senna had was missing and I don't believe Senna would have flaunted the rules, that wasn't fair racing and that's all he did it for.
The emotion and everything else is that makes them great is why the like of Senna, Rossi and Doohan are my hero's.
The Vambo said:
It's your opinion so nobody can argue with it but have you ever noticed the everbody thinks that the music that was around when they were 17 was better than everything before and after?
The 90s wasn't peak F1, it was peak you.
I don't think I started the post with 'this is how it is', but all power to you. I was very lucky to watch the era in which Schumacher was dominant, he did things which were quite extraordinary. Spanish GP 1996 in the wet he was 2-3s a lap faster than anyone, it defied belief. For me though, stuck in 5th gear to finish the race at Barcelona was just amazing. He took different lines and drove around all the issues.The 90s wasn't peak F1, it was peak you.
Sorry, but you can't discuss the pinnacle of F1 driver talent without MS. Senna. Prost, Schumacher. That's F1 history.
Lord Marylebone said:
BlackPrince said:
Although I think you're a dhead for saying such negative things about someone who has suffered what for most of us would be considered a worse fate than death...
I completely fail to see how a person’s condition should influence a discussion about them?head for saying such negative things about someone who has suffered what for most of us would be considered a worse fate than death...llcoolmac said:
Augustus Windsock said:
Wow, I am a dhead?
Hmmm, surely pot/kettle as you fail to recognise that it was him being a dhead that led to his accident, deliberately skiing off-piste where he shouldn’t have
I’d guess his sheer arrogance would have made him think that he was as bulletproof as when he was racing (and no, I wouldn’t wish such an accident on anyone)
Not quite sure how Senna would be classed the same other than his ‘incident’ with Prost.
Having said that, in the film ‘Senna’, Prost did say he thought Senna was dangerous because he thought he was immortal (or words to that effect)
While your original comment didn't really make you a dhead?Hmmm, surely pot/kettle as you fail to recognise that it was him being a d
head that led to his accident, deliberately skiing off-piste where he shouldn’t have I’d guess his sheer arrogance would have made him think that he was as bulletproof as when he was racing (and no, I wouldn’t wish such an accident on anyone)
Not quite sure how Senna would be classed the same other than his ‘incident’ with Prost.
Having said that, in the film ‘Senna’, Prost did say he thought Senna was dangerous because he thought he was immortal (or words to that effect)
head, this one proved that you indeed are one. Clearly showing your bias against Schumacher by somehow suggesting that he got what he deserved. You clearly don't have a clue what off piste skiing is. He was skiing through two on piste sections and probably didn't even realise he had gone off piste. God I hate know it all types when they don't have the foggiest notion what they are talking about.
Very unfair and hateful comment which has no place on this forum.
mike150 said:
I agree with all of the above bar none of it.
IMO Senna was the best ever, so much talent, heart and emotion.
He was always fair even when in Japan when Balestre put him on the dirty side of the grid so his friend, Prost got the upper hand, BTW, I was old enough to watch it live and remember it well. I'd have done the same if I had the balls to total an F1 car live on TV on purpose!!!!
I admired Schumacher but there are a few major tints to that all mentioned above, he was too ruthless in his career and in that I believe he flaunted the rules a few times...…………………. the passion that Senna had was missing and I don't believe Senna would have flaunted the rules, that wasn't fair racing and that's all he did it for.
The emotion and everything else is that makes them great is why the like of Senna, Rossi and Doohan are my hero's.
Senna always fair? That's stretching things tbh. He was absolutely focused on winning, you need to go back and read some quotes from Prost...IMO Senna was the best ever, so much talent, heart and emotion.
He was always fair even when in Japan when Balestre put him on the dirty side of the grid so his friend, Prost got the upper hand, BTW, I was old enough to watch it live and remember it well. I'd have done the same if I had the balls to total an F1 car live on TV on purpose!!!!
I admired Schumacher but there are a few major tints to that all mentioned above, he was too ruthless in his career and in that I believe he flaunted the rules a few times...…………………. the passion that Senna had was missing and I don't believe Senna would have flaunted the rules, that wasn't fair racing and that's all he did it for.
The emotion and everything else is that makes them great is why the like of Senna, Rossi and Doohan are my hero's.
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