RE: Schumacher at 50: Time For Tea
Discussion
I used to play 5-a-side football with an ex-Mercedes engineer (2011-2014 if I remember rightly). His memories of Schumacher were very positive, he said that he was always present and interested in what was going on behind the scenes, ego left at home, enthusiastic about the abilities of the men and women putting the machine together and did a lot to emphasise the importance of everyone's input. Whether that is on account of being more 'mellow Michael' in his comeback years I'm not sure, but how he described him he sounded like a proper team player and a positive influence on those around him.
His account of Hamilton's presence at the team is markedly different.
Although his actions were sometimes dubious, morality aside there is no doubt Schumacher is one of the all time greats. A talent to be remembered and treasured forever even if his will to win drove him to blow below the belt occassionally. I hope that wherever and however he is these days he's found a way to live happily.
His account of Hamilton's presence at the team is markedly different.
Although his actions were sometimes dubious, morality aside there is no doubt Schumacher is one of the all time greats. A talent to be remembered and treasured forever even if his will to win drove him to blow below the belt occassionally. I hope that wherever and however he is these days he's found a way to live happily.
lbc said:
Schumacher was never in the same league as Senna or Prost, or Mansell.
Really, I'd debate all of those claims. Care to back it up with facts......I can remember him being booed at the British GP and people applauding when he crashed at the British GP, he broke his leg IIRC. Left there pretty disgusted.
Of all of above, never in the same league as Mansell, really?
yonex said:
lbc said:
Schumacher was never in the same league as Senna or Prost, or Mansell.
Really, I'd debate all of those claims. Care to back it up with facts......I can remember him being booed at the British GP and people applauding when he crashed at the British GP, he broke his leg IIRC. Left there pretty disgusted.
Of all of above, never in the same league as Mansell, really?
I must admit I was a fan of Schumacher in his Benetton days though, and I still have official Benetton Schumacher memorobillia that was given to me by team members.
CSK1 said:
+1. In fact Michael went off-piste to help a friend's daughter who got into trouble.
Very unfair and hateful comment which has no place on this forum.
Well put. Very unfair and hateful comment which has no place on this forum.
I was never really into F1 but it's hard not to admire Schumi's achievements. As a keen skier I see absolutely nothing wrong with what he did, and he was a very experienced skier. His injuries really hit home for me as I would go 'off piste' regularly and often without a helmet. Happy birthday Michael and for what it's worth I hope he has the best quality of life possible given his injuries. The general lack of publicity does not really indicate any meaningful recovery.
To those commenting on his driving tactics, in the words of Senna 'if there is a gap and you do not go for it, you are no longer a racing driver'. It's easy for us mere mortals to muse on the drivers decisions after the fact, not so easy when you're actually driving a bit of fancy scaffolding round a track at 200mph trying to go faster than everyone else.
OpulentBob said:
Lord Marylebone said:
BlackPrince said:
Although I think you're a d
head for saying such negative things about someone who has suffered what for most of us would be considered a worse fate than death...
I completely fail to see how a person’s condition should influence a discussion about them?head for saying such negative things about someone who has suffered what for most of us would be considered a worse fate than death...Bumblebee7 said:
I was never really into F1
To those commenting on his driving tactics, in the words of Senna 'if there is a gap and you do not go for it, you are no longer a racing driver'. It's easy for us mere mortals to muse on the drivers decisions after the fact, not so easy when you're actually driving a bit of fancy scaffolding round a track at 200mph trying to go faster than everyone else.
I think your first sentence rather sums up why this last part is wrong. Schumacher wasn't just "going for a gap". He deliberately drove into Hill, with his own car already fatally crippled, to win the 94 title (not to mention Benetton breaking multiple rules that season with modified fuel rigs and "option 13"). He tried the same against Villeneuve in 97. He parked his car across the road to stop Alonso taking pole in Monaco.To those commenting on his driving tactics, in the words of Senna 'if there is a gap and you do not go for it, you are no longer a racing driver'. It's easy for us mere mortals to muse on the drivers decisions after the fact, not so easy when you're actually driving a bit of fancy scaffolding round a track at 200mph trying to go faster than everyone else.
He invented the swerve off the start line (which others have since copied) and tried to run Barrichello into the pitwall during his comeback. He is more responsible than any driver I can remember for it becoming acceptable to edge a driver towards the grass if they try to pass around the outside, a tactic which I still do not believe to be sporting or acceptable despite what Martin Brundle might think. IMO his 94 title should be viewed in the same light as Lance Armstrong's TdF wins, and struck from the record books.
As for his (and Ferrari's) dominance - that's not very difficult to achieve if you're the only team to have your own test track next to your factory and are driving around testing all day, 5 days a week. From 1999 through 2004 they had undoubtedly the fastest (by a far greater margin than Red Bull/Mercedes' recent 'dominance') and most reliable car in F1; Eddie Irvine almost won the 1999 title despite being an overt number 2 for the first few races and receiving precious little help from Schumacher after his return from injury.
I saw another comment on Schumacher's era being peak F1, and I couldn't disagree more. Very few drivers of that era would be viewed highly in a historical context. Hill was pretty average (except in Hungary), Villeneuve was little better. Hakkinen will be remembered as Schumacher's opponent rather than a true great in his own right. And into the 2000s, who was there? Raikkonen was always wildly inconsistent, same for Montoya.
Misty eyed Nostalgia.
Unbelievable some of have not included Lewis Hamilton in the lists of greatest drivers.
Remember growing up watching Schuey. What a legend...... The battles with Damon on the track. It was palpable and just felt so connected and real to the viewing public.
Hope you many more birthdays warrior. Keep battling as we all know you do.
Unbelievable some of have not included Lewis Hamilton in the lists of greatest drivers.
Remember growing up watching Schuey. What a legend...... The battles with Damon on the track. It was palpable and just felt so connected and real to the viewing public.
Hope you many more birthdays warrior. Keep battling as we all know you do.
Edited by HannsG on Friday 4th January 07:52
Something about how good he was, is being forgotten because of his success. People are forgetting in the Benetton he was in a manual transmission car and if I remember an article (vaguely) in Motorsport magazine where in that car he was only 0.3 secs slower than the semi-auto later around Spa, thats how quick and good he was.
When he went to Ferrari, the car wasa pig, we all know that, what is forgotten is why Berger and Alesi who went the other way, could not get the results out of the Benetton. I think it was Berger that said that he car Schumacher had left was so nervous and pointy, just looking at the steering would make it turn in, that it took a year to re-engineer the car for their styles. The thing is, that is how MS had the car set up.
There are so many things you can list why he was one of the greatest drivers the world has known, I actually put him at the top, and that's from someone who is Damon Hill fan.
When he went to Ferrari, the car wasa pig, we all know that, what is forgotten is why Berger and Alesi who went the other way, could not get the results out of the Benetton. I think it was Berger that said that he car Schumacher had left was so nervous and pointy, just looking at the steering would make it turn in, that it took a year to re-engineer the car for their styles. The thing is, that is how MS had the car set up.
There are so many things you can list why he was one of the greatest drivers the world has known, I actually put him at the top, and that's from someone who is Damon Hill fan.
I was never a schumi fan when he was racing first time round. Always cheered on his rivals, hakkinen, hill, Villeneuve and Alonso mainly. Who else won 7 world titles with such strong opposition.
However was strangely routing for him on his return to F1. No idea why?
His accident was terrible and such a shame, he had so much to tell us all and deserved to be enjoying his achievements.
I think he was the best ever simply because in my time watching F1 he is the only driver who won the title in not the best car.
However was strangely routing for him on his return to F1. No idea why?
His accident was terrible and such a shame, he had so much to tell us all and deserved to be enjoying his achievements.
I think he was the best ever simply because in my time watching F1 he is the only driver who won the title in not the best car.
Buzypea said:
The Dick Dasterdly of F1. I loved to hate him but in a pantomime kind of way. Loved watching him battle against Mika Hakkinen in the late 90’s, it was probably one of my favourite eras in F1 history. Ultimately I think Schumacher was overrated, 7 world titles definitely flatters his actual ability. Some of the stunts he pulled over the years were absolutely disgraceful and his team mates would always come to Ferrari on the understanding they would be a no.2 driver and help him win.
When he returned to F1 at Mercedes and wasn’t given the number 1 treatment, Rosberg outpaced him easily. Though to be fair, Rosberg was actually a very good driver.
I wish Schumacher well as he’s provided years of entertainment in F1 and hope he eventually makes a good recovery.
Do you really think and believe Schumacher's wins and pole positions over his also very talented team mates were all been given? And I don't think it's fair to compare someone who's in his retirement to someone who's on top of his form, either.When he returned to F1 at Mercedes and wasn’t given the number 1 treatment, Rosberg outpaced him easily. Though to be fair, Rosberg was actually a very good driver.
I wish Schumacher well as he’s provided years of entertainment in F1 and hope he eventually makes a good recovery.
Schumacher's race craft was second to none. What was that race where he kept going off the racing line deliberately to dry off the track so he could overtake? Most of the top racers either had the natural skill or racing brain. Prost vs Senna for example or Jenson vs Lewis in 11. Schumacher had both in spades. Lewis will more than likely beat Schumacher's wins although I do not think he will get his fastest laps but that is inevitable when you are doing 5 extra races a year.
You will never be bored with a Schumacher thread, from past to present. That in itself speaks volumes.
1. I don't think we can be too harsh on him doing that less boring bit of that route when he hit his head, it's not exactly extreme skiing and was just unlucky.
2. Mansell is still under-rated even though as a person he bores me to tears. The Anti-Schumacher particle !
3. Damon Hill had a difficult job after Senna died and also had a difficult job following in his fathers footsteps, so not sure why people think he is a tosspot driver? People also think Nico Rosberg is a tosspot driver also, but he wasn't.
It is a shame Michael either wants no publicity or his wife wants no publicity because currently he is like Schrodinger's Cat. But that is their wish and that must be respected.
1. I don't think we can be too harsh on him doing that less boring bit of that route when he hit his head, it's not exactly extreme skiing and was just unlucky.
2. Mansell is still under-rated even though as a person he bores me to tears. The Anti-Schumacher particle !
3. Damon Hill had a difficult job after Senna died and also had a difficult job following in his fathers footsteps, so not sure why people think he is a tosspot driver? People also think Nico Rosberg is a tosspot driver also, but he wasn't.
It is a shame Michael either wants no publicity or his wife wants no publicity because currently he is like Schrodinger's Cat. But that is their wish and that must be respected.
yonex said:
Please don't mention Damon Hill and MS in the same sentence. One, a multiple world champion, genuine team leader and pulled remarkable results never seen on a race track, the other, not. I lost all respect for Damon when he bottled it and signed for Arrows, then refused to race, that's not what champions are made of. I recall being in the minority supporting MS through the whole 'we love Damon era'.
" I lost all respect for Damon when he bottled it and signed for Arrows, then refused to race, that's not what champions are made of."Hold on, but what about 1999 when Michael Schumacher broke his leg at Silverstone? He then could not easily win the championship due to lost rounds so when Ferrari rang him up at his home to see how he was doing on his recovery and when he would be back his son answered the phone and said he was outside playing football! Not exactly racing back to the car to come 2nd or 3rd .....
That's not what champions are made of ....
More comments from you
"Schumacher was at the end of his career when Rosberg 'beat' him.
Not sure why you put beat in " " he did spank him, no quotes needed. Interestingly Alonso at end of his F1 career did not need quotes around beat because he was still "beating" his team mate. Something MS did not do.
"Schumacher will always be the king of what I consider to be the peak of F1"
He didn't really have a team mate to challenge him though did he, like Prost and Senna or Hamilton or Alonso. The whole team revolved around him. Byrne, Todt, Brawn, etc were epic and went from cowboys to being the professionals.
Gandahar said:
" I lost all respect for Damon when he bottled it and signed for Arrows, then refused to race, that's not what champions are made of."
Hold on, but what about 1999 when Michael Schumacher broke his leg at Silverstone? He then could not easily win the championship due to lost rounds so when Ferrari rang him up at his home to see how he was doing on his recovery and when he would be back his son answered the phone and said he was outside playing football! Not exactly racing back to the car to come 2nd or 3rd .....
That's not what champions are made of ....
More comments from you
"Schumacher was at the end of his career when Rosberg 'beat' him.
Not sure why you put beat in " " he did spank him, no quotes needed. Interestingly Alonso at end of his F1 career did not need quotes around beat because he was still "beating" his team mate. Something MS did not do.
"Schumacher will always be the king of what I consider to be the peak of F1"
He didn't really have a team mate to challenge him though did he, like Prost and Senna or Hamilton or Alonso. The whole team revolved around him. Byrne, Todt, Brawn, etc were epic and went from cowboys to being the professionals.
It's fairly obvious you don't have any respect for what MS achieved, which is your right, but please stop using hearsay as facts! Hold on, but what about 1999 when Michael Schumacher broke his leg at Silverstone? He then could not easily win the championship due to lost rounds so when Ferrari rang him up at his home to see how he was doing on his recovery and when he would be back his son answered the phone and said he was outside playing football! Not exactly racing back to the car to come 2nd or 3rd .....
That's not what champions are made of ....
More comments from you
"Schumacher was at the end of his career when Rosberg 'beat' him.
Not sure why you put beat in " " he did spank him, no quotes needed. Interestingly Alonso at end of his F1 career did not need quotes around beat because he was still "beating" his team mate. Something MS did not do.
"Schumacher will always be the king of what I consider to be the peak of F1"
He didn't really have a team mate to challenge him though did he, like Prost and Senna or Hamilton or Alonso. The whole team revolved around him. Byrne, Todt, Brawn, etc were epic and went from cowboys to being the professionals.
For many people he is, and was the defining driver of his generation. Damon Hill, as good as he, and every F1 driver is, wasn't in the same league, that's not my opinion it's a fact, backed up by the record books.
Gandahar said:
He didn't really have a team mate to challenge him though did he
He out qualified his team mate Andrea DiC in his first F1 race? He out qualified double world champion Piquet at Benneton in his first season there?Gandahar said:
The whole team revolved around him. Byrne, Todt, Brawn, etc were epic and went from cowboys to being the professionals.
What would you have done, set the team up around the number two driver 
7 World Championships and 91 wins. There is no argument really. Whether you like him or not he was a fantastic racing driver and is widely respected by most, if not all of the paddock today.
As for Damon, I bet that big Arrows contract makes up for missing out on a title or two.....
Wow, the hatred and spite on here is breathtaking. I just hope none of the haters ever suffer a life changing injury. People mentioning Schumacher in the same breath as rapists and murderers. Take a look at yourselves you’re a disgrace.
Michael was one of the greats. He helped build Ferrari up from also ran to world beater. Yes he was ruthless but so was senna. The tragedy is that two of the modern greats have been hit by tragedy like this.
If you can’t say anything nice on a tribute thread maybe best you stay quiet. I’m a month younger than Michael so his birthday resonates with me. Happy birthday Michael, keep fighting.
Michael was one of the greats. He helped build Ferrari up from also ran to world beater. Yes he was ruthless but so was senna. The tragedy is that two of the modern greats have been hit by tragedy like this.
If you can’t say anything nice on a tribute thread maybe best you stay quiet. I’m a month younger than Michael so his birthday resonates with me. Happy birthday Michael, keep fighting.
Gandahar said:
" I lost all respect for Damon when he bottled it and signed for Arrows, then refused to race, that's not what champions are made of."
Hold on, but what about 1999 when Michael Schumacher broke his leg at Silverstone? He then could not easily win the championship due to lost rounds so when Ferrari rang him up at his home to see how he was doing on his recovery and when he would be back his son answered the phone and said he was outside playing football! Not exactly racing back to the car to come 2nd or 3rd .....
That's not what champions are made of ....
More comments from you
"Schumacher was at the end of his career when Rosberg 'beat' him.
Not sure why you put beat in " " he did spank him, no quotes needed. Interestingly Alonso at end of his F1 career did not need quotes around beat because he was still "beating" his team mate. Something MS did not do.
"Schumacher will always be the king of what I consider to be the peak of F1"
He didn't really have a team mate to challenge him though did he, like Prost and Senna or Hamilton or Alonso. The whole team revolved around him. Byrne, Todt, Brawn, etc were epic and went from cowboys to being the professionals.
You misunderstand injuries, I had a fractured foot , bent sideways actually, but I could walk with a plaster on after a while. I broken leg can be surface break, but either way, you and I don't understand how the injury would affect him driving a car, but not other activities. Which brings me to the point of a story that seems like bullsHold on, but what about 1999 when Michael Schumacher broke his leg at Silverstone? He then could not easily win the championship due to lost rounds so when Ferrari rang him up at his home to see how he was doing on his recovery and when he would be back his son answered the phone and said he was outside playing football! Not exactly racing back to the car to come 2nd or 3rd .....
That's not what champions are made of ....
More comments from you
"Schumacher was at the end of his career when Rosberg 'beat' him.
Not sure why you put beat in " " he did spank him, no quotes needed. Interestingly Alonso at end of his F1 career did not need quotes around beat because he was still "beating" his team mate. Something MS did not do.
"Schumacher will always be the king of what I consider to be the peak of F1"
He didn't really have a team mate to challenge him though did he, like Prost and Senna or Hamilton or Alonso. The whole team revolved around him. Byrne, Todt, Brawn, etc were epic and went from cowboys to being the professionals.
t and something you takes as fact, that his young son answered a phone and said that - and yet look at MS's career, work ethic and results, that is completely out of character. To galvanise a team takes hard work and commitment, that seems to have bypassed you. Many drivers have failed, Mansell only did it with semi-active suspension , everyone else hated him as the Williams documentary will tell you.
So he didn't have a top class teammate, how many drivers in his era were driving for teams that could win the world championship? There was Mikka at Mclaren , Montoya at Williams, Villeneuve at WIlliams, Hill at Williams, Coulthard had a championship winning car, Alonso, and thats off the top of my head, he put in the effort and miles to get the Ferrari team from being a dog to the top, in that situation, I could understand the need for a clear No1 and No2, but hey Mikka wasn't really knocking at Ferrari's door because he had a fantastic car and was number 1 in his team.
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