RE: Schumacher at 50: Time For Tea
Discussion
Ah, the Brits still hating on the German who stuck it to them and their Williams team big time. What a surprise.
From a non-Brit/German perspective it was clear the BBC commentators were massively biased against Schumacher, as it could be observed when listening to the more objective narratives on Eurosport and on my country's national TV station. It made it all the sweeter when he drubbed the Brits: Patrick Head, Williams team, Newey, McLaren team, Dennis and Hill.
Schumacher is the greatest driver of the past 25 years without question. And definitely top 3 of all time. Defeating Hill and William's while driving the inferior Benetton and then having titanic battles to eventually overcome Hakkinen and McLaren later. He brought teams together and redefined the role of an F1 driver.
I salute you! Happy birthday, Schuey!
From a non-Brit/German perspective it was clear the BBC commentators were massively biased against Schumacher, as it could be observed when listening to the more objective narratives on Eurosport and on my country's national TV station. It made it all the sweeter when he drubbed the Brits: Patrick Head, Williams team, Newey, McLaren team, Dennis and Hill.
Schumacher is the greatest driver of the past 25 years without question. And definitely top 3 of all time. Defeating Hill and William's while driving the inferior Benetton and then having titanic battles to eventually overcome Hakkinen and McLaren later. He brought teams together and redefined the role of an F1 driver.
I salute you! Happy birthday, Schuey!
Don't assume all Brits fall into the same nationalistic tub thumping stereotype you portray- and perhaps even personify ? I have watched Formula 1 (and a lot of other motor sport )since before Herr Schumacher was even born and one or the reasons I loved it was its lack of nationalism when I first watched it. A few tifosi aside, all most of us wanted was a good race. Which is why the driver I admired most was Austrian , the one I found easier to admire than to like was British and the one who I'd most liked to have had dinner with was American..
I really don't give a damn who wins a GP , nor where the driver comes from - I might have savoured watching Mansell win at Silverstone 87 (it helped to be there) , reading about Gurney's Spa victory in 67 or watching the TV in disbelief as Panis won Monaco in 97 (I think ?) but it is an international sport, largely free of the idiot tribalism of ball games.
But it started to change in the Mansell/Senna era when I saw Sun reading knuckle draggers screaming abuse at Senna every lap and I really cannot be doing with all the flag waving nonsense which now so often infects the sport. I will make an exception for the tifosi- who are so theatrical and who welcomed this Brit with open arms when I went to Imola .
Schumacher then? A sublimely gifted driver , certainly in my top six, but whose talent was spoiled by his cynical tactics and whose results were flattered (like Hamilton and Vettel ) by crushingly superior cars .
I really don't give a damn who wins a GP , nor where the driver comes from - I might have savoured watching Mansell win at Silverstone 87 (it helped to be there) , reading about Gurney's Spa victory in 67 or watching the TV in disbelief as Panis won Monaco in 97 (I think ?) but it is an international sport, largely free of the idiot tribalism of ball games.
But it started to change in the Mansell/Senna era when I saw Sun reading knuckle draggers screaming abuse at Senna every lap and I really cannot be doing with all the flag waving nonsense which now so often infects the sport. I will make an exception for the tifosi- who are so theatrical and who welcomed this Brit with open arms when I went to Imola .
Schumacher then? A sublimely gifted driver , certainly in my top six, but whose talent was spoiled by his cynical tactics and whose results were flattered (like Hamilton and Vettel ) by crushingly superior cars .
Gandahar said:
The whole team revolved around him. Byrne, Todt, Brawn, etc were epic and went from cowboys to being the professionals.
I agree with Jackie on this one, and you. It's one thing being a great driver but another to be a great driver and be instrumental in developing the team at the same time."Schumacher, Ross Brawn, Rory Byrne, and Jean Todt (hired in 1993), have been credited as turning this once struggling team into the most successful team in Formula One history.Three-time World Champion Jackie Stewart believes the transformation of the Ferrari team was Schumacher's greatest feat."
Happy belated birthday, Michael.
Grew up watching MS, used to go over my grandads every F1 weekend to watch it, Grandad was a Mclaren man and supported the brits. I was about 3 at the time of his debut, he was the only driver I could remember week in week out as I thought his name was "Shoe Maker" so he stuck with me.
Favourite colour was also red so when he joined the red team that was it for me, followed him till 2006.
I then supported Massa but followed Vettel closely, MS made his return in 2010 and for the first time ever found myself supporting Mercedes GP/MS and Red Bull/Vettel (local team to me).
These days I'm back in the Tifosi with Vettel.
Schui shares a birthday with my mum, His accident happend on my birthday.
Hoping to make it out to the museum in Koln this year. Happy belated birthday MS.
Favourite colour was also red so when he joined the red team that was it for me, followed him till 2006.
I then supported Massa but followed Vettel closely, MS made his return in 2010 and for the first time ever found myself supporting Mercedes GP/MS and Red Bull/Vettel (local team to me).
These days I'm back in the Tifosi with Vettel.
Schui shares a birthday with my mum, His accident happend on my birthday.
Hoping to make it out to the museum in Koln this year. Happy belated birthday MS.
oilit said:
I realise I am going to get mobbed for the following comment - but here goes anyway:
For me, Schumacher and Ferrari winning every race is what stopped me watching F1 when I was a teenager and haven't watched it since.
It's also a little strange to me that his family rightly want to secure privacy for him in what must be a very sad state of affairs for them and him - if he even knows it. YET, they are happy to monetize on the back of his past with new apps etc (https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article.schumacher-50th-birthday-new-app.3mrSlKcPksUoiSsKuoSG8C.html) which I am afraid I see as pure exploitation and somewhat contradictory to their desire for privacy.
His accident was a tragedy - regardless of his personality - as the saying goes : I wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy.
But his family need to stop talking out of both sides of their head and either go 100% private and stop all the apps etc or be prepared to open up completely. I would suggest the former rather than the latter please.
Quite right.For me, Schumacher and Ferrari winning every race is what stopped me watching F1 when I was a teenager and haven't watched it since.
It's also a little strange to me that his family rightly want to secure privacy for him in what must be a very sad state of affairs for them and him - if he even knows it. YET, they are happy to monetize on the back of his past with new apps etc (https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article.schumacher-50th-birthday-new-app.3mrSlKcPksUoiSsKuoSG8C.html) which I am afraid I see as pure exploitation and somewhat contradictory to their desire for privacy.
His accident was a tragedy - regardless of his personality - as the saying goes : I wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy.
But his family need to stop talking out of both sides of their head and either go 100% private and stop all the apps etc or be prepared to open up completely. I would suggest the former rather than the latter please.
Edited by oilit on Friday 4th January 21:05
Now go on the Schumi thread in NP+E and post that and you’ll have the usual suspects frothing at the mouth telling you how it’s none of your god damn business
blasos said:
Schumacher is the greatest driver of the past 25 years without question. And definitely top 3 of all time. Defeating Hill and William's while driving the inferior Benetton and then having titanic battles to eventually overcome Hakkinen and McLaren later. He brought teams together and redefined the role of an F1 driver.
I salute you! Happy birthday, Schuey!
Inferior Benetton? That's rather re-writing history.I salute you! Happy birthday, Schuey!
In 94, the Williams had an aerodynamic flaw so significant that they were forced to introduce a new car mid-season (and which probably contributed to Senna's death). The Benetton featured an illegal traction control system, which despite their claims to not be using it, Senna had realised before it was publicly known that Option 13 was hidden in their software. Benetton had also illegally modified their fuel rigs, and were being led by Pat "crashgate" Symonds - who knows what other dishonesty they were up to.
In 95, Benetton had the same engine as Williams. Aerodynamically, Williams were persisting with the outdated low nose concept. They were, at most, roughly equal - it's possible the Benetton was slightly ahead.
I don't see how you can claim a driver is the best of the last 25 years when he never had a top-line team-mate to compare against. Just as Schumacher himself was not his former self in his Mercedes years, neither was Piquet in his latter Benetton years. I maintain that Schumacher's era is one of the weakest that I can remember in terms of the level of his opponents.
Schumacher was a good driver, no doubt, but 7 titles is no more than Hamilton, Alonso, or Vettel would have achieved in the same cars. And they would've done so without needing gifted victories.
spikyone said:
Inferior Benetton? That's rather re-writing history.
In 94, the Williams had an aerodynamic flaw so significant that they were forced to introduce a new car mid-season (and which probably contributed to Senna's death). The Benetton featured an illegal traction control system, which despite their claims to not be using it, Senna had realised before it was publicly known that Option 13 was hidden in their software. Benetton had also illegally modified their fuel rigs, and were being led by Pat "crashgate" Symonds - who knows what other dishonesty they were up to.
In 95, Benetton had the same engine as Williams. Aerodynamically, Williams were persisting with the outdated low nose concept. They were, at most, roughly equal - it's possible the Benetton was slightly ahead.
I don't see how you can claim a driver is the best of the last 25 years when he never had a top-line team-mate to compare against. Just as Schumacher himself was not his former self in his Mercedes years, neither was Piquet in his latter Benetton years. I maintain that Schumacher's era is one of the weakest that I can remember in terms of the level of his opponents.
Schumacher was a good driver, no doubt, but 7 titles is no more than Hamilton, Alonso, or Vettel would have achieved in the same cars. And they would've done so without needing gifted victories.
Could of, would of, should of.In 94, the Williams had an aerodynamic flaw so significant that they were forced to introduce a new car mid-season (and which probably contributed to Senna's death). The Benetton featured an illegal traction control system, which despite their claims to not be using it, Senna had realised before it was publicly known that Option 13 was hidden in their software. Benetton had also illegally modified their fuel rigs, and were being led by Pat "crashgate" Symonds - who knows what other dishonesty they were up to.
In 95, Benetton had the same engine as Williams. Aerodynamically, Williams were persisting with the outdated low nose concept. They were, at most, roughly equal - it's possible the Benetton was slightly ahead.
I don't see how you can claim a driver is the best of the last 25 years when he never had a top-line team-mate to compare against. Just as Schumacher himself was not his former self in his Mercedes years, neither was Piquet in his latter Benetton years. I maintain that Schumacher's era is one of the weakest that I can remember in terms of the level of his opponents.
Schumacher was a good driver, no doubt, but 7 titles is no more than Hamilton, Alonso, or Vettel would have achieved in the same cars. And they would've done so without needing gifted victories.
But didn't.
yonex said:
Could of, would of, should of.
But didn't.
It’s “could HAVE, would HAVE, should HAVE”, for crying out loud. What has gone wrong in the British education system in the past 25 years that people don’t realise “of” makes no bloody sense?!But didn't.
I’m not really sure what your point is anyway, but Hamilton might well match or even beat Schumacher’s records. If he does, he will have achieved it with less of a car advantage, without an explicit number 2 as a team-mate, and with a higher standard of opposition than Schumacher faced.
spikyone said:
It’s “could HAVE, would HAVE, should HAVE”, for crying out loud. What has gone wrong in the British education system in the past 25 years that people don’t realise “of” makes no bloody sense?!
I’m not really sure what your point is anyway, but Hamilton might well match or even beat Schumacher’s records. If he does, he will have achieved it with less of a car advantage, without an explicit number 2 as a team-mate, and with a higher standard of opposition than Schumacher faced.
My point is the record books don’t lie. It just seems like a bunch of angry little Englanders moaning about nothing in this thread. I’m not really sure what your point is anyway, but Hamilton might well match or even beat Schumacher’s records. If he does, he will have achieved it with less of a car advantage, without an explicit number 2 as a team-mate, and with a higher standard of opposition than Schumacher faced.
Anyone else finding the Schumacher:50 bootlicking circus a bit weird? He's hit 50, like so what, doesn't seem like much of a reason to have this peculiar popup little w@nkfest, yet anyone and everyone seems compelled to make some sort of statement practically canonizing him.
Mind I find everything about the Schumacher situation a wee bit odd.
Mind I find everything about the Schumacher situation a wee bit odd.
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