RE: BMW E46 M3 CSL: Spotted

[kars]

Chapppers said:

The above quote, I believe, was refferring to the V10 engine in the M5 but that's been lost in the quotes.

I've considered a manual conversion on mine a few times but never pulled the trigger, mainly because I think the manual M3 (and most BMW manuals I've tried) shift quality isn't very good. If I could figure out a decent upgrade to the shifter at the same time that didn't involve cutting holes in the centre console trim like the CAE one does, I'd certainly give it a lot more thought.
If you were to do it to any car, I think my high-miler would be the one since it's already at the bottom end of the value range, and a manual conversion could even improve its value by making it stand out a bit and appeal to those who never wanted one because of the SMG.

Agree, if you want a manual bmw, you need a CAE shifter, it's must have upgrade

[Matthew7711]

[redacted]

[Leon R]

[redacted]

[Chapppers]

kars said:

Agree, if you want a manual bmw, you need a CAE shifter, it's must have upgrade

I mean, if I were to convert mine I’d have to disagree because it looks so far from OEM. There must be a way to improve things without cutting pieces of trim out and having such a tall lever?

[neutral 3]

Matthew7711 said:

No offense, but no one cares about any of that.

You’re missing the point..nothing worse than seeing a standard model with the flippers on bumper and all the other bits and bobs that makes all CSL parts obsolete..it’s getting boring and as time goes by buyers want originality and not replicated parts.

We can all spend thousands on modding but the CSL is not a fast GTR type car..it’s about the corners and having fun.

I’m sure your car is great but BHP figures is not what I’m chasing.

I've never chased Hi Po figures, so what if the 996 Turbo that I regularly used to come up against ( unless I was on an R1 ) used to leave my M3 behind in a straight line.
Do you really think that every buyer wants originality, seriously, when an original can always be improved on, which is why so many E Types, Capris, Astons etc etc are modified.
And do you really think that every E46 M3 owner wants to own / drive an over weight barge, when with a few modifications the car can be vastly improved on. So why shouldn't they fit CSL parts if they can get them. The CSL is based on an M3 the same as the E9 3.0CSL was based on a E9 2800CS.

[Guvernator]

Matthew7711 said:

Unfortunately the E90 suffers in the looks department.

Plus points are the V8 and 4 doors but it’s not a weekend thrash type of car.

The E9 is comforting and fast but it’s not Raw..

The DCT is miles ahead of the SMG in smoothness etc but it’s missing the aggressive characteristics that make a car fun.

I would choose a manual E9 over a DCT E9 every time but the CSL has such a reduction in weight and all the special carbon fibre bits and bobs, airbox etc that make you want to cherish it.

Still a respectable time around the ring and that was 15 years ago!

Such a shame they didn't make a proper E9x CSL. The GTS was superb by all accounts but too expensive and the CRT didn't really do enough. I'd love to have seen what an E92 coupe with around 100kgs lopped of it and similar mods to the E46 CSL would have been like, could have been a stunning car IMO.

[Slippydiff]

Guvernator said:

Matthew7711 said:

Unfortunately the E90 suffers in the looks department.

Plus points are the V8 and 4 doors but it’s not a weekend thrash type of car.

The E9 is comforting and fast but it’s not Raw..

The DCT is miles ahead of the SMG in smoothness etc but it’s missing the aggressive characteristics that make a car fun.

I would choose a manual E9 over a DCT E9 every time but the CSL has such a reduction in weight and all the special carbon fibre bits and bobs, airbox etc that make you want to cherish it.

Still a respectable time around the ring and that was 15 years ago!

Such a shame they didn't make a proper E9x CSL. The GTS was superb by all accounts but too expensive and the CRT didn't really do enough. I'd love to have seen what an E92 coupe with around 100kgs lopped of it and similar mods to the E46 CSL would have been like, could have been a stunning car IMO.

Dear Mr Schirmer ....

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wBVYxp_kSSw

[Guvernator]

Slippydiff said:

Dear Mr Schirmer ....

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wBVYxp_kSSw

Nice though it is that's not really what I was on about either, that is more GTS\trackday racer than CSL. That has a roll cage and no rear seats for a start.

The CSL was an amazing achievement shedding 110kgs while still largely keeping the car everyday usable, it even kept the rear seats. I think losing the rear seats is bit of a cheat way to lose weight IMO, once you lose the seats it might as well be a different car completely.

[Leon R]

The M3 CRT was a fair bit lighter than the standard E90 saloon and kept the seats.

Prices are sky high though.

[Matthew7711]

Guvernator said:

Nice though it is that's not really what I was on about either, that is more GTS\trackday racer than CSL. That has a roll cage and no rear seats for a start.

The CSL was an amazing achievement shedding 110kgs while still largely keeping the car everyday usable, it even kept the rear seats. I think losing the rear seats is bit of a cheat way to lose weight IMO, once you lose the seats it might as well be a different car completely.

Completely agree.

[Guvernator]

Leon R said:

The M3 CRT was a fair bit lighter than the standard E90 saloon and kept the seats.

Prices are sky high though.

Think it was 40kg-70kg depending on spec which is OK but not CSL levels of lightness plus as you say prices are a bit silly as they only made 67 of them worldwide IIRC.

[MDL111]

GregorFuk said:

Matthew7711 said:

Getting rarer everyday..these will be worth megabucks when they get imported to America.

UK cars will need to form an orderly queue behind all the left hookers in mainland Europe. Plenty more of those than the 370 odd UK cars left and imminently preferable to a North American.

LHD quite a bit more expensive though (probably due to the disproportionate number of RHD cars as percentage of total production

Edit: obviously agree re US - doubt they would buy a RHD car that exists as LHD version

Edited by MDL111 on Friday 11th January 11:04

[Court_S]

I love the CSL - it looks and sounds fantastic. The induction noise is intoxicating. The E46 for me is the best looking 3 series that BMW have made. Prices now are crazy and that's a shame because I guess it means more and more of them will be wrapped up in cotton wool on collections and not used.

If I remember correctly, when they were released a lot of people didn't get them because you were paying more for less if you spec'd them as intended (no A/C or radio).

I'm a big fan of the E9x though - the V8 with the DCT gearbox is a lovely combination. It's also a car that I like more with age - it actually looks dinky compared to the F series and sounds about a million times better. My E90 (sadly not an M car) was so much better than the E46 I had previously in terms of build quality and issues. I can't help thinking that if it were my money, I'd buy the newer E9x and keep the change.

[Alpinestars]

Guvernator said:

Such a shame they didn't make a proper E9x CSL. The GTS was superb by all accounts but too expensive and the CRT didn't really do enough. I'd love to have seen what an E92 coupe with around 100kgs lopped of it and similar mods to the E46 CSL would have been like, could have been a stunning car IMO.

The GTS is one of the best drivers’ cars around imv. It’s got more power than the CSL, a fantastic engine, beautifully playful chassis, beautiful steering and damping. The only area it doesn’t quite compete in, is the screaming engine and induction noise of the CSL.

[Guvernator]

Alpinestars said:

The GTS is one of the best drivers’ cars around imv. It’s got more power than the CSL, a beautifully playful chassis, beautiful steering and damping. The only area it doesn’t quite compete in, is the screaming engine and induction noise of the CSL.

The GTS has a V8 that screams to 8500rpm, I'm sure it won't be lacking in the aural department.

The only thing going against is that compared to a CSL it's a bit too hard core (no rear seats, roll cage) and the price was well into 6 figures too so it's not really a fair comparison. I still think the CSL was perfectly judged, hard core enough to make it feel special but still usable enough to potter down to the shops in with your family\mates.

[MDL111]

am now back to looking at the classifieds... still tempted to buy one of the cheap RHD ones to keep (one of the ones in the 35-45k bracket) and use as a trackday/mountain road car.

I assume the seating position is fine in RHD given no clutch pedal?
Any stories re engine rebuild requirements at high mileage (would buy one with 80k plus miles on the clock already)?

[Alpinestars]

Guvernator said:

Alpinestars said:

The GTS is one of the best drivers’ cars around imv. It’s got more power than the CSL, a beautifully playful chassis, beautiful steering and damping. The only area it doesn’t quite compete in, is the screaming engine and induction noise of the CSL.

The GTS has a V8 that screams to 8500rpm, I'm sure it won't be lacking in the aural department.

The only thing going against is that compared to a CSL it's a bit too hard core (no rear seats, roll cage) and the price was well into 6 figures too so it's not really a fair comparison. I still think the CSL was perfectly judged, hard core enough to make it feel special but still usable enough to potter down to the shops in with your family\mates.

Obviously it’s a fair point about price, but the GTS is a better drivers’ car. Aurally it’s very good, but the CSL is better.

[cerb4.5lee]

Alpinestars said:

Guvernator said:

Alpinestars said:

The GTS is one of the best drivers’ cars around imv. It’s got more power than the CSL, a beautifully playful chassis, beautiful steering and damping. The only area it doesn’t quite compete in, is the screaming engine and induction noise of the CSL.

The GTS has a V8 that screams to 8500rpm, I'm sure it won't be lacking in the aural department.

The only thing going against is that compared to a CSL it's a bit too hard core (no rear seats, roll cage) and the price was well into 6 figures too so it's not really a fair comparison. I still think the CSL was perfectly judged, hard core enough to make it feel special but still usable enough to potter down to the shops in with your family\mates.

Obviously it’s a fair point about price, but the GTS is a better drivers’ car. Aurally it’s very good, but the CSL is better.

I never thought that my E92 M3 sounded that great(induction noise was nice/exhaust silent though). I much preferred the noise of the S65 V8 over the S54 in my Z4M though. The S54 is too much of a screamer(tinny and like a Honda VTEC) for me, and I much prefer engines with a much deeper tone. An American V8 is more to my taste...l think I must be old fashioned!

[Alpinestars]

cerb4.5lee said:

I never thought that my E92 M3 sounded that great(induction noise was nice/exhaust silent though). I much preferred the noise of the S65 V8 over the S54 in my Z4M though. The S54 is too much of a screamer(tinny and like a Honda VTEC) for me, and I much prefer engines with a much deeper tone. An American V8 is more to my taste...l think I must be old fashioned!

The GTS has a more purposeful noise than a standard 92. Deeper and louder, probably more to your liking from the above.

[Guvernator]

cerb4.5lee said:

I never thought that my E92 M3 sounded that great(induction noise was nice/exhaust silent though). I much preferred the noise of the S65 V8 over the S54 in my Z4M though. The S54 is too much of a screamer(tinny and like a Honda VTEC) for me, and I much prefer engines with a much deeper tone. An American V8 is more to my taste...l think I must be old fashioned!

Agree the E92 is far too quite as standard but nothing some breathing\exhaust mods can't fix. Listen to one with a carbon box and Akrapovic exhaust, I'd rate it better than the noise a CSL makes, lovely as that is too.