RE: Jaguar Land Rover facing "perfect storm"
Discussion
anonymous said:
[redacted]
No you are quite correct they can't. Which was even more of a reason they should have not played "safe" and just done what they have already done!I think in some ways, mass market EVs will be a great leveller, because the powertrain is fundamentally very simple, and because actually, even rubbish electric motors are really efficient!
B17NNS said:
Things like this are starting to make JLR's product range (I-PACE aside) look like dinosaurs.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QMfxJEfb4lw
765bhp, 826lb ft torque, 0-60 3 seconds, 420 mile range. Starts at $65k. Available end of 2020.
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
Can ijust say i'll be absolutely amazing if that gets to market at the price they are suggesting! The investors have been bankrolling Rivian for just about 10 years now, call it 11 by the time they get to first series production, and those investors are going to smell money, especially if the product is as well received as it looks like being! Those costs also require their battery supply chain to be absolutely world class and reliable, given the amount of cells in those trucks (up to 180 kW.hr )https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QMfxJEfb4lw
765bhp, 826lb ft torque, 0-60 3 seconds, 420 mile range. Starts at $65k. Available end of 2020.
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
Max_Torque said:
Can ijust say i'll be absolutely amazing if that gets to market at the price they are suggesting! The investors have been bankrolling Rivian for just about 10 years now, call it 11 by the time they get to first series production, and those investors are going to smell money, especially if the product is as well received as it looks like being! Those costs also require their battery supply chain to be absolutely world class and reliable, given the amount of cells in those trucks (up to 180 kW.hr )
Quite a few ex McLaren guys behind it I believe. The pickup looks deeply impressive too. Similar stats to the SUV. Isn't the F150 Ford's biggest money spinner?
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=17...
k all a month, they poke fun at the person driving and create stereo types. Further proof it’s a premium car.
So we've seen record sales in the US but falling sales in China. Everybody expects the Chinese to suck up every western product/brand, they don't and will not. There's only so much kit you can sell out there. Whereas other brands are producing hybrids (Volvo, Merc, Audi, Porsche) JLR seem to be standing still in this respect, over reliant on big diesels. LR makes a great luxury car but the quality/reliability is not great, fuel economy is woeful and depreciation is horrendous. Have you tried tp spec up an F-Pace? By the time you add a few essentials suddenly the price is £60K!
B17NNS said:
Quite a few ex McLaren guys behind it I believe. The pickup looks deeply impressive too. Similar stats to the SUV. Isn't the F150 Ford's biggest money spinner?
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=17...
They look a serious outfit with all their i's dotted I doubt they will lack for funding. https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=17...
I also think it makes everyone else's current 2020 concepts look stupid and way behind. I'm guessing a few sleepless nights at big auto hq over that beast.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
That wasn't the point I was trying to make. A cheap smart phone is what, £350? Apple have an iPhone in that region and it costs no more to run than any other smart phone give or take.Anyone who can afford a Range Rover product or one relatively new, either has a large disposable income or cash savings to achieve it.
Or to put it another way, anyone on an average wage can probably make a sacrifice they feel is worth it to blow £50 a month on a life tool that is pretty much part of life these days.
Finding monthlies of up to a grand is vastly different.
Here’s a thought.
Perhaps Jaguars sales are down because of the XE and XF not being updated, along with the XJ (facelifted very recently).
The German 3 facelift their cars every 3 years give or take, add more deriatives such as Shadow Edition or Night Edition with lots of kit etc. The XE looks quite dated now, along with the XF, the XF looked dated the day it was launched, the XJ is even older.
Maybe people refrain from buying them for that reason? Sure reliability is a worry but for most people who buy cars new, I’m sure 80% of them replace them after 3 years.
Maybe people are reluctant to spend money on a car that doesn’t look very fresh compared to its rivals? The back of an XE looks like an early 2009 A5!
Perhaps Jaguars sales are down because of the XE and XF not being updated, along with the XJ (facelifted very recently).
The German 3 facelift their cars every 3 years give or take, add more deriatives such as Shadow Edition or Night Edition with lots of kit etc. The XE looks quite dated now, along with the XF, the XF looked dated the day it was launched, the XJ is even older.
Maybe people refrain from buying them for that reason? Sure reliability is a worry but for most people who buy cars new, I’m sure 80% of them replace them after 3 years.
Maybe people are reluctant to spend money on a car that doesn’t look very fresh compared to its rivals? The back of an XE looks like an early 2009 A5!
Chestrockwell said:
Maybe people refrain from buying them for that reason? Sure reliability is a worry but for most people who buy cars new, I’m sure 80% of them replace them after 3 years.
No need to worry about reliability with your new Jaguar here. Jaguar are so confident about reliability that all new Jaguar's sold in the USA since MY2016 have come complete with a transferable 5 yr / 60k warranty with all scheduled maintenance included at no cost. Best warranty package in the industry.Chestrockwell said:
Here’s a thought.
Perhaps Jaguars sales are down because of the XE and XF not being updated, along with the XJ (facelifted very recently).
The German 3 facelift their cars every 3 years give or take, add more deriatives such as Shadow Edition or Night Edition with lots of kit etc. The XE looks quite dated now, along with the XF, the XF looked dated the day it was launched, the XJ is even older.
That is the problem and then add that the saloon/estate market is shrinking while the SUV market is expanding. Are Jaguar going to invest in new saloon models - even with electric/hydrid tech? Okay, you could argue the 3 Germans do well, but then that's another problem; you can choose a 3-Series, A4, or a C-Class and it will probably come down to cost/month so it will be a little petrol engined 3er or A4. The XE is far down the list, despite being (currently) nice to drive and looks ok (although a number of people slating it on here?).Perhaps Jaguars sales are down because of the XE and XF not being updated, along with the XJ (facelifted very recently).
The German 3 facelift their cars every 3 years give or take, add more deriatives such as Shadow Edition or Night Edition with lots of kit etc. The XE looks quite dated now, along with the XF, the XF looked dated the day it was launched, the XJ is even older.
The SUV market is booming, but Jaguar already have LR making them - yes they can share platforms/engines etc. I do see a few F-Paces about but if it's really about making a Land Rover with a Jaguar badge in the future is there really a long term sustainability with that strategy? I don't know.
Kierkegaard said:
The SUV market is booming, but Jaguar already have LR making them - yes they can share platforms/engines etc. I do see a few F-Paces about but if it's really about making a Land Rover with a Jaguar badge in the future is there really a long term sustainability with that strategy? I don't know.
The F-Pace has sold in large numbers by Jag standards. It represents a big slice of the pie.It shares a lot of components with the Velar but feels very different in character. It's definitely not a Land Rover. Sharing platforms and components makes perfect sense and doesn't seem to have hurt Porsche / Audi / VW or GMC / Cadillac / Chevy.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Actually, the iPhone is a pretty good analogy. In terms of performance, reliability or technology it is no better, and in some cases, worse than the budget alternatives out there, yet it is still perceived as a 'premium' product. Why is that? Simply because we are told they are by marketing. The only thing 'premium' about it is the price and the badge. Who does that remind you of?LimaDelta said:
Actually, the iPhone is a pretty good analogy. In terms of performance, reliability or technology it is no better, and in some cases, worse than the budget alternatives out there, yet it is still perceived as a 'premium' product. Why is that? Simply because we are told they are by marketing. The only thing 'premium' about it is the price and the badge. Who does that remind you of?
Audi Mercedes and to a lesser extent BMW.Oh and JLR of course.
Ahhhhhh here we go again. What is it about the British public (especially PH's) and their absolute determination to see JLR ruined? 
Any mention of problems at JLR and the media make sure to jump on it and bash it 'til its dead. Reading into the detail this is just a hiccup due to the big drop in sales in China and mostly falls to Jaguar, which as a brand has been held up by LR sales for a couple of years now as their models have aged and become less profitable. Hopefully the i-Pace architecture can help to turn that around. LR sales outside China look really good.
But of course, Land Rovers are unreliable because I knew a guy 15 years ago that had one 4th hand and it never worked right and they're too expensive becuase I don't like this new trend for PCP deals and the Evoque is crap because it sold lots and that's not what Land Rovers should be about. They should go back to selling 3 sheep wagons a year that'll be kept running with spit and kleenex for at least 25 years.
Any mention of problems at JLR and the media make sure to jump on it and bash it 'til its dead. Reading into the detail this is just a hiccup due to the big drop in sales in China and mostly falls to Jaguar, which as a brand has been held up by LR sales for a couple of years now as their models have aged and become less profitable. Hopefully the i-Pace architecture can help to turn that around. LR sales outside China look really good.
But of course, Land Rovers are unreliable because I knew a guy 15 years ago that had one 4th hand and it never worked right and they're too expensive becuase I don't like this new trend for PCP deals and the Evoque is crap because it sold lots and that's not what Land Rovers should be about. They should go back to selling 3 sheep wagons a year that'll be kept running with spit and kleenex for at least 25 years.
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