RE: Behold the new Toyota Supra!
Discussion
Venturist said:
Reservation holders were invited to configure our cars today (though only option seems to be special edition A90 which is sold out, and on the normal Premium car just choice of colour).
But looking at the picture of the car next to a pricetag of £54,710... I’d rather have another gorgeous looking, sounding, and driving, manual F type... than an ugly reskin of a BMW with a Toyota badge.
Sorry Toyota. I wanted to want it.
£54,710?But looking at the picture of the car next to a pricetag of £54,710... I’d rather have another gorgeous looking, sounding, and driving, manual F type... than an ugly reskin of a BMW with a Toyota badge.
Sorry Toyota. I wanted to want it.
Isn't a Lexus Rcf £59,995?
vz-r_dave said:
Umm the Civic Type R is quick enough to scare a GTR on a twisty road. If you're going to make a point make it sensible..... PH
There are many types of roads and track/circuit venues out there which do not resemble the cliched narrow B-roads full of horse-5h1t - whilst I doubt a CTR would trouble a GTR much with equal drivers, everywhere else a GTR will murder a FWD hot hatch.Whenever a toothless 'sports car' gets launched to the market (i.e Mazda RX8 and Honda S2000 15+ years ago), fanboys of the day tried to run against more powerful cars resorting to idiotic late-late braking and taking 'racing lines', at times against on coming traffic, each time taking enormous risks. The driver of a more powerful car of the day maintains a decent speed (low/moderate risk) and waits for 300+ metres of straight line to put the 'B road driving god' in his place.
Will the MKV Supra driving god of today resort to the style of driving of the S2000 and RX-8 drivers back in the 00's? Who knows, although because the Supra carries such a reputation - having only 335 HP exposes the Supra against cheaper hot hatches that will equal it (and beat it in the wet), harangued by re-mapped diesel Audi SQ7's and BMW X5's at your local motorway/DC, and seen off by a 10 year old GTR anywhere anytime. Then there are multitudes of Mercedes AMG, Audi S/RS and the BMW M cars prevalent with at least 100 extra horsepower over the Supra.
This is why most manufacturers who build performance cars scale up the outputs and handling/braking/grip capability to keep the car viable in current market, seems like Toyota believe it is 2002 still...
Edited by TwinExit on Tuesday 15th January 18:34
anonymous said:
[redacted]
In a nutshell.Parts-bin / "badge engineering" complaints seem to miss the point and the price is entirely realistic, given the reality of (i) the current market (you can spend very nearly as much on a plethora of inherently less desirable things, in my view); and (ii) the fact it will likely be a relatively low-volume car that likely shares not a lot with anything else that Toyota currently makes. I expect that it will find a small but well defined niche, whether as Supra or as a BMW with a Toyota badge.
Like it or not, to take offence seems rather pointless, even if it didn't quite meet any expectations you may have had (realistic or otherwise).
Toyota builds a new Supra in a market thats currently really quite unfriendly to sports cars, makes it RWD with an LSD, under 1500kg and gives it a 3.0 boosted six whilst making it smaller and lighter than the original car... how are people complaining? I think it looks great, it looks like a 2019 interpretation of a Supra, its not a hybrid, its not AWD, its not a crossover like the new Eclipse is, its clearly been designed and made by enthusiasts for enthusiasts... if people don't like this, what do they like?
The FT-1 concept was clearly never going to meet pedestrian safety regulations, if you were deluded enough to think it would then you really need reassess your understanding of concept cars. I think its a great looking car, I think they've done well to even produce it in this day and age and I sincerely hope it sells well so I can buy a nice used one 5 years down the line...
Also, I genuinely think that it's one of those cars that needs lowering and some spacers to look good, just like how BMWs do. The old Supra wasn't exactly a looker in standard form on its standard wheels and 4x4 suspension, the new one will be the same... the old supra has its reputation from tuner culture, much like the GT86 I think Toyota know that it's a car which wont be left standard for long by most.
Really hope they make a 6-speed manual using the M2/M3 box.
The FT-1 concept was clearly never going to meet pedestrian safety regulations, if you were deluded enough to think it would then you really need reassess your understanding of concept cars. I think its a great looking car, I think they've done well to even produce it in this day and age and I sincerely hope it sells well so I can buy a nice used one 5 years down the line...
Also, I genuinely think that it's one of those cars that needs lowering and some spacers to look good, just like how BMWs do. The old Supra wasn't exactly a looker in standard form on its standard wheels and 4x4 suspension, the new one will be the same... the old supra has its reputation from tuner culture, much like the GT86 I think Toyota know that it's a car which wont be left standard for long by most.
Really hope they make a 6-speed manual using the M2/M3 box.
TwinExit said:
There are many types of roads and track/circuit venues out there which do not resemble the cliched narrow B-roads full of horse-5h1t - whilst I doubt a CTR would trouble a GTR much with equal drivers, everywhere else a GTR will murder a FWD hot hatch.
Whenever a toothless 'sports car' gets launched to the market (i.e Mazda RX8 and Honda S2000 15+ years ago), fanboys of the day tried to run against more powerful cars resorting to idiotic late-late braking and taking 'racing lines', at times against on coming traffic, each time taking enormous risks. The driver of a more powerful car of the day maintains a decent speed (low/moderate risk) and waits for 300+ metres of straight line to put the 'B road driving god' in his place.
Will the MKV Supra driving god of today resort to the style of driving of the S2000 and RX-8 drivers back in the 00's? Who knows, although because the Supra carries such a reputation - having only 335 HP exposes the Supra against cheaper hot hatches that will equal it (and beat it in the wet), harangued by re-mapped diesel Audi SQ7's and BMW X5's at your local motorway/DC, and seen off by a 10 year old GTR anywhere anytime. Then there are multitudes of Mercedes AMG, Audi S/RS and the BMW M cars prevalent with at least 100 extra horsepower over the Supra.
This is why most manufacturers who build performance cars scale up the outputs and handling/braking/grip capability to keep the car viable in current market, seems like Toyota believe it is 2002 still...
So basically you prefer overweight overpowered straight-line heros over actual drivers cars? God forbid Toyota make a car thats actually fun to drive like the S2000 and RX8 were... Whenever a toothless 'sports car' gets launched to the market (i.e Mazda RX8 and Honda S2000 15+ years ago), fanboys of the day tried to run against more powerful cars resorting to idiotic late-late braking and taking 'racing lines', at times against on coming traffic, each time taking enormous risks. The driver of a more powerful car of the day maintains a decent speed (low/moderate risk) and waits for 300+ metres of straight line to put the 'B road driving god' in his place.
Will the MKV Supra driving god of today resort to the style of driving of the S2000 and RX-8 drivers back in the 00's? Who knows, although because the Supra carries such a reputation - having only 335 HP exposes the Supra against cheaper hot hatches that will equal it (and beat it in the wet), harangued by re-mapped diesel Audi SQ7's and BMW X5's at your local motorway/DC, and seen off by a 10 year old GTR anywhere anytime. Then there are multitudes of Mercedes AMG, Audi S/RS and the BMW M cars prevalent with at least 100 extra horsepower over the Supra.
This is why most manufacturers who build performance cars scale up the outputs and handling/braking/grip capability to keep the car viable in current market, seems like Toyota believe it is 2002 still...
Edited by TwinExit on Tuesday 15th January 18:34
Dr Interceptor said:
In Europe in Nov 2018 Alpine sold 222 cars, and Porsche sold 564 718's (Boxsters and Caymans combined)
Probably means Alpine sold about as many A110s as Caymans. (That's a bit skewed by the French who have been buying far more Alpines than all of the 718s combined in France)Gooly said:
TwinExit said:
There are many types of roads and track/circuit venues out there which do not resemble the cliched narrow B-roads full of horse-5h1t - whilst I doubt a CTR would trouble a GTR much with equal drivers, everywhere else a GTR will murder a FWD hot hatch.
Whenever a toothless 'sports car' gets launched to the market (i.e Mazda RX8 and Honda S2000 15+ years ago), fanboys of the day tried to run against more powerful cars resorting to idiotic late-late braking and taking 'racing lines', at times against on coming traffic, each time taking enormous risks. The driver of a more powerful car of the day maintains a decent speed (low/moderate risk) and waits for 300+ metres of straight line to put the 'B road driving god' in his place.
Will the MKV Supra driving god of today resort to the style of driving of the S2000 and RX-8 drivers back in the 00's? Who knows, although because the Supra carries such a reputation - having only 335 HP exposes the Supra against cheaper hot hatches that will equal it (and beat it in the wet), harangued by re-mapped diesel Audi SQ7's and BMW X5's at your local motorway/DC, and seen off by a 10 year old GTR anywhere anytime. Then there are multitudes of Mercedes AMG, Audi S/RS and the BMW M cars prevalent with at least 100 extra horsepower over the Supra.
This is why most manufacturers who build performance cars scale up the outputs and handling/braking/grip capability to keep the car viable in current market, seems like Toyota believe it is 2002 still...
So basically you prefer overweight overpowered straight-line heros over actual drivers cars? God forbid Toyota make a car thats actually fun to drive like the S2000 and RX8 were... Whenever a toothless 'sports car' gets launched to the market (i.e Mazda RX8 and Honda S2000 15+ years ago), fanboys of the day tried to run against more powerful cars resorting to idiotic late-late braking and taking 'racing lines', at times against on coming traffic, each time taking enormous risks. The driver of a more powerful car of the day maintains a decent speed (low/moderate risk) and waits for 300+ metres of straight line to put the 'B road driving god' in his place.
Will the MKV Supra driving god of today resort to the style of driving of the S2000 and RX-8 drivers back in the 00's? Who knows, although because the Supra carries such a reputation - having only 335 HP exposes the Supra against cheaper hot hatches that will equal it (and beat it in the wet), harangued by re-mapped diesel Audi SQ7's and BMW X5's at your local motorway/DC, and seen off by a 10 year old GTR anywhere anytime. Then there are multitudes of Mercedes AMG, Audi S/RS and the BMW M cars prevalent with at least 100 extra horsepower over the Supra.
This is why most manufacturers who build performance cars scale up the outputs and handling/braking/grip capability to keep the car viable in current market, seems like Toyota believe it is 2002 still...
Edited by TwinExit on Tuesday 15th January 18:34
TwinExit said:
Pretty much general consensus is this car is the new RX-8 in regards to the scale of disappointment and the lack of ambition from the Japanese.
The RX-8 launched to widespread critical acclaim and sold strongly for the first several years, with annual sales pretty much comparable to the Boxster on average. So I'm not quite sure that it's a good example of disappointment and underwhelmingness of a car's launch.Gooly said:
The old Supra wasn't exactly a looker in standard form on its standard wheels and 4x4 suspension
Indeed, the Mk4 was a bulbous, bloated mess on stilts and with terrible wheels as standard.It was pretty much ignored by all keen drivers and those wanting to look respectable, but later adored by pre-pubescent fast and the furious fans.
2JZ is a great engine though.
DanielSan said:
GoodCompany said:
The BMW hardware and software just won't allow itself even a shadow of the potential of the JZ engined cars in terms of modification. It just goes to show that there limited edition model is purely cosmetic.
Have you seen the power tuners are managing with these 35/40 BMW 6's? Even on standard internals there's cars at 600bhp plus with fairly basic bolt on's https://youtu.be/r9mDayTeJNI
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