RE: Behold the new Toyota Supra!

[Don Colione]

Oz83 said:

They might have been better starting with a longer chassis such as the 6 series, giving it a load more power, and charging £90k+ for it.

You don't see Honda remaking the legendary NSX as a £50k car. I really think the new Supra should have been a halo model for Toyota.

[DonkeyApple]

I don’t get this car to be honest. It’s a BMW that has had its badge and interior removed and replaced with the branding and materials of a minicab & motobility vendor and is then sold for pretty much the same price of £50k.

I could see the point if it were substantially cheaper but I’m not sure we will see all that many in the U.K. as I’m not sure that there are many consumers in the West who will step out to rent a £50k sports car and opt for the one with the Uber badges over the one with the badges that say ‘2015 Window Vendor of the Year, Regional Finalist’.

[LaurasOtherHalf]

People just have to accept it, it’s a supra in badge only.

It’s a BMW Z4 with some body panels to make it look like an old supra concept. That’s it.

It’s no more a supra than a Fiat 124 is a, hang on scrap that-at least the Fiat has a different power train to differentiate it from the MX5 it is under the frock.

[vz-r_dave]

DonkeyApple said:

I don’t get this car to be honest. It’s a BMW that has had its badge and interior removed and replaced with the branding and materials of a minicab & motobility vendor and is then sold for pretty much the same price of £50k.

I could see the point if it were substantially cheaper but I’m not sure we will see all that many in the U.K. as I’m not sure that there are many consumers in the West who will step out to rent a £50k sports car and opt for the one with the Uber badges over the one with the badges that say ‘2015 Window Vendor of the Year, Regional Finalist’.

You dont get it because you are too lazy to read up on the work Toyota has done to the chassis, suspension etc. I mean I dont blame you, its typical of a PH forum user to base their entire judgement on the aesthetics of a car 'Materials of a minicab' but why not open your mind a little. Do a bit of research and have some patience, wait out for the road and track tests etc.

[DonkeyApple]

vz-r_dave said:

DonkeyApple said:

I don’t get this car to be honest. It’s a BMW that has had its badge and interior removed and replaced with the branding and materials of a minicab & motobility vendor and is then sold for pretty much the same price of £50k.

I could see the point if it were substantially cheaper but I’m not sure we will see all that many in the U.K. as I’m not sure that there are many consumers in the West who will step out to rent a £50k sports car and opt for the one with the Uber badges over the one with the badges that say ‘2015 Window Vendor of the Year, Regional Finalist’.

You dont get it because you are too lazy to read up on the work Toyota has done to the chassis, suspension etc. I mean I dont blame you, its typical of a PH forum user to base their entire judgement on the aesthetics of a car 'Materials of a minicab' but why not open your mind a little. Do a bit of research and have some patience, wait out for the road and track tests etc.

Not a jot of that matters. The U.K. is about the badge:monthlies ratio. My mind is wide open which is why I can see that faced with two cars of the same cost, the U.K. consumer is going to opt for the one that has ‘ultimate driving machine’ on the back and not the one that has ‘AAA Executive Hire’ and requires a plaque on the drive explaining that Toyota have fettled with some of the BMW parts so that the marketing dept has something to say other than ‘It’s a BMW but £10/month cheaper to compensate for the cheaper plastics and the lack of image projection’.

The person with the open mind is the person who is free to comprehend how UK consumers consume and what their primary drivers are with cars above the average U.K. spend and sadly, fettling with set-up is of no relevance. Which ultimately is why the sports car market has died on its arse and the only way firms without very strong brand prestige can justify offering one is to do it like this.

[Todd Bonzalez]

What actually has Toyota done to the suspension? Is it just spring and damping rates?

[vz-r_dave]

DonkeyApple said:

vz-r_dave said:

DonkeyApple said:

I don’t get this car to be honest. It’s a BMW that has had its badge and interior removed and replaced with the branding and materials of a minicab & motobility vendor and is then sold for pretty much the same price of £50k.

I could see the point if it were substantially cheaper but I’m not sure we will see all that many in the U.K. as I’m not sure that there are many consumers in the West who will step out to rent a £50k sports car and opt for the one with the Uber badges over the one with the badges that say ‘2015 Window Vendor of the Year, Regional Finalist’.

You dont get it because you are too lazy to read up on the work Toyota has done to the chassis, suspension etc. I mean I dont blame you, its typical of a PH forum user to base their entire judgement on the aesthetics of a car 'Materials of a minicab' but why not open your mind a little. Do a bit of research and have some patience, wait out for the road and track tests etc.

Not a jot of that matters. The U.K. is about the badge:monthlies ratio. My mind is wide open which is why I can see that faced with two cars of the same cost, the U.K. consumer is going to opt for the one that has ‘ultimate driving machine’ on the back and not the one that has ‘AAA Executive Hire’ and requires a plaque on the drive explaining that Toyota have fettled with some of the BMW parts so that the marketing dept has something to say other than ‘It’s a BMW but £10/month cheaper to compensate for the cheaper plastics and the lack of image projection’.

The person with the open mind is the person who is free to comprehend how UK consumers consume and what their primary drivers are with cars above the average U.K. spend and sadly, fettling with set-up is of no relevance. Which ultimately is why the sports car market has died on its arse and the only way firms without very strong brand prestige can justify offering one is to do it like this.

We are coming in from two angles here, apologies for my prior comments. I agree on the overall consumer market perspective, at least in the UK anyway. It will sell well in other markets (especially those where the Z4 is less common) and more than likely flop like the 370z did here. I have my car enthusiast hat on here and am more fussed about how this car behaves on the road and track. Keen to see if it is a cut above its competitors (regardless of cheap plastics).

[Trevor555]

Don Colione said:

Then what other insecurity made you feel it necessary to respond to that part of my post?

Just this bit.

""So far, I have seen many reviews and videos of this car, and the only ones complaining about the looks are the "keyboard warriors".

[V8RX7]

I think the designer watched Fast N Furious too many times it's massively over styled.

[Terminator X]

Don Colione said:

Please stop posting pictures if you are going to judge the car, its out already.


Did you actually see any video of the FT-1 concept? - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SF2cfzJKbUY

I personally never liked the exterior (the spoiler makes it look better), but thought the interior was hot on the FT-1...


If Toyota made that exact same replica.. then the whiners would be out here en masse screaming that they let our expectations down by producing a car with an "outdated" design, because they took too long to put it into production.


So far, I have seen many reviews and videos of this car, and the only ones complaining about the looks are the "keyboard warriors". From all that I have taken in thus far; those who have seen the car in real life have said that it is stunning. - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sirDs1-nLXc

I think it looks kind of like a mini 'viper', in some ways, and it dates most car designs now; making them look slab sided, oversized, and bloated....

Have you had some sort of "episode" as even in both the vids you posted you can see the original is stunning whilst the production car is an ugly fking mess!

TX.

[DonkeyApple]

vz-r_dave said:

We are coming in from two angles here, apologies for my prior comments. I agree on the overall consumer market perspective, at least in the UK anyway. It will sell well in other markets (especially those where the Z4 is less common) and more than likely flop like the 370z did here. I have my car enthusiast hat on here and am more fussed about how this car behaves on the road and track. Keen to see if it is a cut above its competitors (regardless of cheap plastics).

I agree. I’m just cynical that at £50k there are very many brand enthusiasts and very few driving enthusiasts.

[Ikemi]

The front end looks like a modern take on the MK3 Supra front end ...



I'm not so sure either, to be honest. Seeing one on the roads may change my opinion, but the FT Concept is stunning in comparison. It's a bit ... gopping.

[Scootersp]

V8RX7 said:

I think the designer watched Fast N Furious too many times it's massively over styled.

The only (slim) possibility is that's the way trends might go and then in a few years this and the Civic's might be seen as ahead of its time?

It's a reach but the Mkiv with it's over the top rear spoiler was probably similarly viewed as over styled (probably still is by some!) Also I spose without some form of 'out there' styling there would be even more BMW clone claims?

[TwinExit]

Gooly said:

Again, well aware of the MKIV's suspension setup - my comment was mainly down to the fact that the ride height meant it wasnt a great looking car in standard form and benefitted from coilovers and wheels, just like the new one will. BMW don't have the best suspension design, particularly the 90s stuff which I like - hence why I never recommended that Toyota should take lessons from the E34 and E36. You seem to be easily upset by things - perhaps you should consider talking to someone about it.

No I am not upset by things on a forum, I just find these sort of attempts at a retort to my posts from PH'ers like yourself is of humorous fodder.

What you subjectively think about the 'look' of the JZA80's suspension design is entirely your preference, yet ultimately immaterial. What had to be put straight was your 4x4 comments, which infers suspension design to be completely unsuited to a road going sports car or grand tourer, that is where you are factually wrong and further makes you come across like another over opinionated Ph'er that is out of his depth.

Gooly said:

Fact is Toyota have created a lovely sports coupe which has a three litre turbo inline six, sending power to the rear wheels, in a car that weighs under 1500kg. It's faster and lighter than the old model and will likely handle better. It's not horrendously oversized for UK roads like some modern sports cars are, and it's priced competitively with the Cayman. It's a shame and a cop-out to use MacPherson struts as opposed to the double wishbone of old, and I do hope it gets a manual box at some point but I really don't see how someone can not be excited over the prospect of a 340bhp RWD coupe...

There are plenty of RWD coupes with similar power for less than the £54,000+ RRP. The world has not been waiting for yet another 1.5 tonne coupe in the 'three hundred bee-HP' range, that formula has been around since the late 80s and many got bored since the mid 90's (hence the substantial aftermarket craze in Japan and USA).

Approx 10-20 kilograms lighter, marginally faster, and 10 HP more powerful than the previous car launched 26 years ago (probably before you were born?) during the era of the Japanese gentleman's agreement to limit peak engine power.

What is there to be excited about?

Dissecting through your spin on the matter, the reality is Toyota wants £50k+ for this car, off the back of the aftermarket sub-culture and Japanese motorsport success of the older gen Supra. Yet the new car's performance is level with hot hatch backs and re-mapped TDI Audi mummy school run wagons. It is not on.

Gooly said:

It's ironic that you criticise people for judging cars by how fun they are down B-roads while dismissing it for the inability to smoke your local Uber driver at the lights. Different strokes for different folks...

The difference is that a good/ambitious design would result in a very competitive fast car that can perform on a B-road as well as on a high speed circuit, or on the local DC in respect to the asking price and competition.

Yet PH'er driving god logic says a car must be deliberately underpowered and only driven on B-roads to justify the shortcomings of the design.

Edited by TwinExit on Thursday 17th January 15:57

[ZX10R NIN]

LaurasOtherHalf said:

People just have to accept it, it’s a supra in badge only.

It’s a BMW Z4 with some body panels to make it look like an old supra concept. That’s it.

It’s no more a supra than a Fiat 124 is a, hang on scrap that-at least the Fiat has a different power train to differentiate it from the MX5 it is under the frock.

Exactly this the 124/Spider is a very different car from the MX5 even though they use the same underpinnings.

Whereas the Supra will not even have a different engine to differentiate the two.

[vz-r_dave]

TwinExit said:

Gooly said:

Again, well aware of the MKIV's suspension setup - my comment was mainly down to the fact that the ride height meant it wasnt a great looking car in standard form and benefitted from coilovers and wheels, just like the new one will. BMW don't have the best suspension design, particularly the 90s stuff which I like - hence why I never recommended that Toyota should take lessons from the E34 and E36. You seem to be easily upset by things - perhaps you should consider talking to someone about it.

No I am not upset by things on a forum, I just find these sort of attempts at a retort to my posts from PH'ers like yourself is of humorous fodder.

What you subjectively think about the 'look' of the JZA80's suspension design is entirely your preference, yet ultimately immaterial. What had to be put straight was your 4x4 comments, which infers suspension design to be completely unsuited to a road going sports car or grand tourer, that is where you are factually wrong and further makes you come across like another over opinionated Ph'er that is out of his depth.

Gooly said:

Fact is Toyota have created a lovely sports coupe which has a three litre turbo inline six, sending power to the rear wheels, in a car that weighs under 1500kg. It's faster and lighter than the old model and will likely handle better. It's not horrendously oversized for UK roads like some modern sports cars are, and it's priced competitively with the Cayman. It's a shame and a cop-out to use MacPherson struts as opposed to the double wishbone of old, and I do hope it gets a manual box at some point but I really don't see how someone can not be excited over the prospect of a 340bhp RWD coupe...

There are plenty of RWD coupes with similar power for less than the £54,000+ RRP. The world has not been waiting for yet another 1.5 tonne coupe in the 'three hundred bee-HP' range, that formula has been around since the late 80s and many got bored since the mid 90's (hence the substantial aftermarket craze in Japan and USA).

Approx 10-20 kilograms lighter, marginally faster, and 10 HP more powerful than the previous car launched 26 years ago (probably before you were born?) during the era of the Japanese gentleman's agreement to limit peak engine power.

What is there to be excited about?

Dissecting through your spin on the matter, the reality is Toyota wants £50k+ for this car, off the back of the aftermarket sub-culture and Japanese motorsport success of the older gen Supra. Yet the new car's performance is level with hot hatch backs and re-mapped TDI Audi mummy school run wagons. It is not on.

Gooly said:

It's ironic that you criticise people for judging cars by how fun they are down B-roads while dismissing it for the inability to smoke your local Uber driver at the lights. Different strokes for different folks...

The difference is that a good/ambitious design would result in a very competitive fast car that can perform on a B-road as well as on a high speed circuit, or on the local DC in respect to the asking price and competition.

Yet PH'er driving god logic says a car must be deliberately underpowered and only driven on B-roads to justify the shortcomings of the design.

Edited by TwinExit on Thursday 17th January 15:57

Its sad that you are so hung up on the traffic light racing dude

[93DW]

[Olivera]

93DW said:

Can we add one for TwinExit:

"It's not moved things on from the 90s Supra and loses a top trumps jerk off with a cheaper tuned Golf R"

[spudgun08]

unsprung said:

it's impressive that he's built an online brand of himself

but I must confess that I didn't hear much of the first moments of this video because I couldn't stop laughing

of course it's unsporting of me, but, really, nobody should be working so hard to smile so much like that; it's like something out of Clockwork Orange, the first moments of smiling in that cavernous white studio

I've never seen or heard of the bloke before, reminds me of an even more manic Mr Tumble!

[mattyprice4004]

Someone is getting nailed to a tree near HQ...