RE: Porsche 911 Carrera S (992): Driven
Discussion
Digga said:
I'm gong to talk about the dash and put this idea out there; it's the best yet in a 911. It somehow manages to look more like an air cooled era dash than anything since.
Okay, there's a big screen and the centre console is much higher - in stature as well as tech - but IMHO the overall feel is somehow pleasingly retro.
Agreed, the dash has a pleasing ‘real’ 911 signature to it, especially when you spec wood on it.Okay, there's a big screen and the centre console is much higher - in stature as well as tech - but IMHO the overall feel is somehow pleasingly retro.
sidesauce said:
I really don't think it's correct to expect Porsche to stick to a overall specific formula as everything evolves over time.
I agree with your overall sentiments to a degree... But isn't the 911 "supposed" to be aimed at drivers and an enthusiast type market? Who asked for stuff like that emasculated gear 'lever'?To me, changes like that could hurt sales in this market - I could be wrong....
Don Colione said:
sidesauce said:
I really don't think it's correct to expect Porsche to stick to a overall specific formula as everything evolves over time.
I agree with your overall sentiments to a degree... But isn't the 911 "supposed" to be aimed at drivers and an enthusiast type market? Who asked for stuff like that emasculated gear 'lever'?To me, changes like that could hurt sales in this market - I could be wrong....
If you want a ‘drivers’ car you go for the top end GT models or Cayman/Boxster (if you can accept 4-cylinder).
A lot will still buy the base 911’s for the badge, the performance, the complete package and I’m probably one of them. For me, it’s a wonderful one-car-does-all driving machine.
It’s product differentiation at its best.
garyhun said:
Standard 911 is now a GT car aimed at people who want the performance combined with comfort without the drawbacks or rawness of a true sports car.
If you want a ‘drivers’ car you go for the top end GT models or Cayman/Boxster (if you can accept 4-cylinder).
A lot will still buy the base 911’s for the badge, the performance, the complete package and I’m probably one of them. For me, it’s a wonderful one-car-does-all driving machine.
It’s product differentiation at its best.
Very true, but don't forget there is alot more competition in the "sporty GT" segment now; new and used - (M4, RC-F, 8 series, SL, LC500, GranTurismo, GTR, AMG GT, AM DB series, etc...) - some of lesser, and greater, price offerings... If you want a ‘drivers’ car you go for the top end GT models or Cayman/Boxster (if you can accept 4-cylinder).
A lot will still buy the base 911’s for the badge, the performance, the complete package and I’m probably one of them. For me, it’s a wonderful one-car-does-all driving machine.
It’s product differentiation at its best.
The 911 doesn't exist in isolation anymore, and I feel the latest changes to soften it up doesn't offer the "special" differentiation that once kept it at the top of its class....
outspan said:
SidewaysSi said:
Don't think any sacrifices are needed for this one. Unless you want something fun to drive of course...
I meant that if you have to make sacrifices to enjoy a car, it tends to enhance the enjoyment - a reward for putting up with the discomforts so to speak. Which in my case means the perfect forest road in my 111R after putting up with numerous reliability issues, total lack of comfort or storage space, bonehard ride and chronical deafness.
Vee12V said:
Ah, yes. The GT-models that are almost impossible to buy unless you buy the non-GT cars.
Honestly the Hype around the GT cars distorts the reality imo - in the 991 gen the sporty cooking models are really excellent sports cars - some might say lotus is more raw but to dismiss them as GTs and you need a motorsports car to get a real sports car does them a disservice.A 991.2 runs rings around pretty much most cars in its class for driver enjoyment and overall satisfaction and the GTS in particular is also fairly rapid
I’m not convinced yet on the 992 but will wait till i see and drive one myself, as others have said few companies have Porsche’s track record in the modern era so it won’t be a bad Car but it’s far less a jump than the 991 took
A 50 year old design, still looks new and stunning. Porsche got it right first time and I`m happy to see an evolution through the years rather than drop it and later reuse the name to build hype around a new model, Supra for example. For me there isn't a generation of 911 that I don't like, they've always stood out from the competition and even more now with the simple classic looking design.
Colonel D said:
A 50 year old design, still looks new and stunning. Porsche got it right first time and I`m happy to see an evolution through the years rather than drop it and later reuse the name to build hype around a new model, Supra for example. For me there isn't a generation of 911 that I don't like, they've always stood out from the competition and even more now with the simple classic looking design.
I still like the overall design, I just don't get stunned by it anymore due to familiarity... This just came up in my youtube feed, it was pretty cool... it shows the 964, 993, and 996 evolutions, but its Best Motoring so its indiscernible
For the first 10 min at least, its good footage of the cars... the timed race ends at the 40th min.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dr7dU7qsg_g
I would have preferred slightly smaller dimensions, less weight, more authentic tail pipes and a big 3.8L naturally aspirated engine, but I understand that, in the overall scheme of things, it's a minor miracle Porsche even builds a sports car instead of just a million variants of the Macan/Cayenne. I have no doubt the latter would be more profitable.
So what can you say. Be thankful for small miracles.
So what can you say. Be thankful for small miracles.
dvshannow said:
Vee12V said:
Ah, yes. The GT-models that are almost impossible to buy unless you buy the non-GT cars.
Honestly the Hype around the GT cars distorts the reality imo - in the 991 gen the sporty cooking models are really excellent sports cars - some might say lotus is more raw but to dismiss them as GTs and you need a motorsports car to get a real sports car does them a disservice.A 991.2 runs rings around pretty much most cars in its class for driver enjoyment and overall satisfaction and the GTS in particular is also fairly rapid
It's not because they're fast and powerful that they're automatically 'good' too. I want more feel and sense of occasion, especially at lower speeds, and that's exactly where the GT cars come in. Standard 911s just aren't that special. They're extremely capable and very fast, but just not special.
garyhun said:
Don Colione said:
sidesauce said:
I really don't think it's correct to expect Porsche to stick to a overall specific formula as everything evolves over time.
I agree with your overall sentiments to a degree... But isn't the 911 "supposed" to be aimed at drivers and an enthusiast type market? Who asked for stuff like that emasculated gear 'lever'?To me, changes like that could hurt sales in this market - I could be wrong....
If you want a ‘drivers’ car you go for the top end GT models or Cayman/Boxster (if you can accept 4-cylinder).
A lot will still buy the base 911’s for the badge, the performance, the complete package and I’m probably one of them. For me, it’s a wonderful one-car-does-all driving machine.
It’s product differentiation at its best.
Don Colione said:
I agree with your overall sentiments to a degree... But isn't the 911 "supposed" to be aimed at drivers and an enthusiast type market? Who asked for stuff like that emasculated gear 'lever'?
To me, changes like that could hurt sales in this market - I could be wrong....
The sales figures will tell us if they're wrong or not, let's wait and see...To me, changes like that could hurt sales in this market - I could be wrong....
That being said, don't you think that Porsche wouldn't have very carefully questioned existing owners about what they want/don't want in a new version of a 911? If, for example, the vast majority of drivers prefer speccing PDK, why should they focus on manual cars? I think your personal definition of a driver/enthusiast is possibly not quite what their target market is in reality.
sidesauce said:
Don Colione said:
I agree with your overall sentiments to a degree... But isn't the 911 "supposed" to be aimed at drivers and an enthusiast type market? Who asked for stuff like that emasculated gear 'lever'?
To me, changes like that could hurt sales in this market - I could be wrong....
The sales figures will tell us if they're wrong or not, let's wait and see...To me, changes like that could hurt sales in this market - I could be wrong....
That being said, don't you think that Porsche wouldn't have very carefully questioned existing owners about what they want/don't want in a new version of a 911? If, for example, the vast majority of drivers prefer speccing PDK, why should they focus on manual cars? I think your personal definition of a driver/enthusiast is possibly not quite what their target market is in reality.
They want to push technology in line with other manufacturers and need to comply with emissions and safety standards etc. People will get the latest and greatest which is not necessarily first and foremost a driver's car.
They could probably produce a few more driver orientated models but it costs too much and I think will take sales from the GT range. Hence the poor effort that is the T range.
Not that a GT car is exactly that exploitable on road of course.
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