RE: Manual, rear-drive BMW M3 'Pure' rumoured

[Onehp]

Ares said:

Onehp said:

Modern times, too hard to pull a lever upon arrival

Electric handbrakes are fine for normal cars, but on a sporty car rwd car with an LSD? Manual sorely missed for sure if they go...

Edited by Onehp on Thursday 31st January 10:33

Why? I have zero desire to ever go back to a manual parking brake again. Electric is superior in every possible way IMO.

I use it occasionally to initiate a drift, usually short turn and slippery surface, at the same time a good measure of grip available and easy to trim your angle upon entry. That is why. I appreciate not everybody makes the same use of it, but please don't let that ruin one of the last factory rwd lsd saloons with a manual handbrake.

[Ares]

Onehp said:

Ares said:

Onehp said:

Modern times, too hard to pull a lever upon arrival

Electric handbrakes are fine for normal cars, but on a sporty car rwd car with an LSD? Manual sorely missed for sure if they go...

Edited by Onehp on Thursday 31st January 10:33

Why? I have zero desire to ever go back to a manual parking brake again. Electric is superior in every possible way IMO.

I use it occasionally to initiate a drift, usually short turn and slippery surface, at the same time a good measure of grip available and easy to trim your angle upon entry. That is why. I appreciate not everybody makes the same use of it, but please don't let that ruin one of the last factory rwd lsd saloons with a manual handbrake.

You appear to have forgotten the word "'innit" and "'bruv' from your post. Or have the wrong wheels driving your car. 'innit

[Onehp]

Ares said:

You appear to have forgotten the word "'innit" and "'bruv' from your post. Or have the wrong wheels driving your car. 'innit

By the sound of it, Rolls-Royce lost some of its customers to BMW whose cars will soon serve all their drivers tea while they read the morning paper and the car makes a quick lap on the obligatory track day. And by the look of some pimped RR' s of recent times, the other way around too. Crazy world...

Edited by Onehp on Thursday 31st January 16:07

[Ares]

Onehp said:

Ares said:

You appear to have forgotten the word "'innit" and "'bruv' from your post. Or have the wrong wheels driving your car. 'innit

By the sound of it, Rolls-Royce lost some of its customers to BMW whose cars will soon serve all their drivers tea while they read paper and the car makes a quick lap on the obligatory track day. And by the look of some pimped RRbof recent times, the other way around too. Crazy world...

All because of an electric handbrake...? I do believe you need to have a word with yourself.

[Tired]

Manual handbrake is useful.

Given all the talk about winter tyres, snow, etc. if you've got a helical/quaife style ATB, being able to manipulate the handbrake slightly, as opposed to digitally, can help get torque to the gripping wheel.

Plus, my manual handbrake never comes on unexpectedly, or without being asked.

[Onehp]

Ares said:

All because of an electric handbrake...? I do believe you need to have a word with yourself.

Why the ad hominem? Again? People discuss manual vs automatic gear changes, hydraulic vs electric power assist, atmospheric vs forced induction etc. all the time in this place. To death. Why, because it has a bearing on the driver experience. And you can't take a few posts about a hand brake because someone asked?

I'm a driving enthusiast, the car is a tool for me. And the way things are going, there will be less and less ways to be the driver. A car without a (proper) manual lever handbrake is a less appealing car to me, simple. I'm not a drifter of any sorts, but I do master the skills and do sometimes use them, mostly during winter. Not because I need to, but because it's fun. Edit: I checked, I am indeed posting in the topic discussing the M3 'pure' 'drivers edition'. Phew.

So what is your excuse?

Edited by Onehp on Thursday 31st January 16:22

[Ares]

Tired said:

Manual handbrake is useful.

Given all the talk about winter tyres, snow, etc. if you've got a helical/quaife style ATB, being able to manipulate the handbrake slightly, as opposed to digitally, can help get torque to the gripping wheel.

Plus, my manual handbrake never comes on unexpectedly, or without being asked.

Neither does my Electric one.

Mrs Ares manual one does sometimes not engage sufficiently though, so she has to leave it in reverse on anything other than a perfect flat road.

[Ares]

Onehp said:

Why the ad hominem? Again? People discuss manual vs automatic gear changes, hydraulic vs electric power assist, atmospheric vs forced induction etc. all the time in this place. To death. Why, because it has a bearing on the driver experience. And you can't take a few posts about a hand brake because someone asked?

I'm a driving enthusiast, the car is a tool for me. And the way things are going, there will be less and less ways to be the driver. A car without a (proper) manual lever handbrake is a less appealing car to me, simple. I'm not a drifter of any sorts, but I do master the skills and do sometimes use them, mostly during winter. Not because I need to, but because it's fun. Edit: I checked, I am indeed posting in the topic discussing the M3 'pure' 'drivers edition'. Phew.

So what is your excuse?

Edited by Onehp on Thursday 31st January 16:22

As a fellow enthusiast, I get the preference for manual gearbox, non-power assisted steering, non-served brakes, NA engines....I don't agree with all opinions, but I understand the preference as they all impact the driving experience.

I fail to see, this side of the requirement to pull a handbrake turn, where a manual parking brake impacts the driving experience? I also enjoy tail happy fun, winter & summer; wet and dry. I use my right foot rather than left hand though, and have done since I was 18?

For a car aimed at performance driving, I fail to see how the move to an electronic parking brake has one jot of an impact on 'pure' driver enjoyment.

Not sure what you want my excuse for...??

[f1ten]

Agreed and I think because the m4 doesn’t rev to say 8000rpm, with the twin turbos and Leary amount of torque, I feel it’s better having 2 hands on the wheel to catch the slides !
Something like a cayman gt4 long gearing etc, manual box is done and plenty time to change up etc

jjr1 said:

I have an M4 Competition and nothing would make me want it in a manual version. I had a Gt86 and loved that in manual and it really suited the car but an M4 is so much bigger and more powerful that the thought of swapping cogs in it manually makes me feel ill.

In fact i can't think of any big powerful car i would want in manual form.

Manual is for small sports cars like an Elise or Gt86 etc.

[cerb4.5lee]

f1ten said:

Agreed and I think because the m4 doesn’t rev to say 8000rpm,

The M4 still revs to 7500rpm which I think is commendably high for a turbo engine.

[anonymous-user]

And unlike most turbos, the S55 feels more and more manic the more you rev it. It's a bloody animal of an engine.

[s m]

arkenphel said:

That's why I'm having a manual S65 V8 1M replica built. Eheheh

That sounds like it will be a fun thing

[SidewaysSi]

Ares said:

Onehp said:

Why the ad hominem? Again? People discuss manual vs automatic gear changes, hydraulic vs electric power assist, atmospheric vs forced induction etc. all the time in this place. To death. Why, because it has a bearing on the driver experience. And you can't take a few posts about a hand brake because someone asked?

I'm a driving enthusiast, the car is a tool for me. And the way things are going, there will be less and less ways to be the driver. A car without a (proper) manual lever handbrake is a less appealing car to me, simple. I'm not a drifter of any sorts, but I do master the skills and do sometimes use them, mostly during winter. Not because I need to, but because it's fun. Edit: I checked, I am indeed posting in the topic discussing the M3 'pure' 'drivers edition'. Phew.

So what is your excuse?

Edited by Onehp on Thursday 31st January 16:22

As a fellow enthusiast, I get the preference for manual gearbox, non-power assisted steering, non-served brakes, NA engines....I don't agree with all opinions, but I understand the preference as they all impact the driving experience.

I fail to see, this side of the requirement to pull a handbrake turn, where a manual parking brake impacts the driving experience? I also enjoy tail happy fun, winter & summer; wet and dry. I use my right foot rather than left hand though, and have done since I was 18?

For a car aimed at performance driving, I fail to see how the move to an electronic parking brake has one jot of an impact on 'pure' driver enjoyment.

Not sure what you want my excuse for...??

Are you sure you understand those preferences? The amount of time you spend on here banging on to anyone who will listen how joyous your Alfa auto box is and that there is no need for/only an ill informed idiot would like a manual would indicate otherwise .

[Ares]

SidewaysSi said:

Ares said:

Onehp said:

Why the ad hominem? Again? People discuss manual vs automatic gear changes, hydraulic vs electric power assist, atmospheric vs forced induction etc. all the time in this place. To death. Why, because it has a bearing on the driver experience. And you can't take a few posts about a hand brake because someone asked?

I'm a driving enthusiast, the car is a tool for me. And the way things are going, there will be less and less ways to be the driver. A car without a (proper) manual lever handbrake is a less appealing car to me, simple. I'm not a drifter of any sorts, but I do master the skills and do sometimes use them, mostly during winter. Not because I need to, but because it's fun. Edit: I checked, I am indeed posting in the topic discussing the M3 'pure' 'drivers edition'. Phew.

So what is your excuse?

Edited by Onehp on Thursday 31st January 16:22

As a fellow enthusiast, I get the preference for manual gearbox, non-power assisted steering, non-served brakes, NA engines....I don't agree with all opinions, but I understand the preference as they all impact the driving experience.

I fail to see, this side of the requirement to pull a handbrake turn, where a manual parking brake impacts the driving experience? I also enjoy tail happy fun, winter & summer; wet and dry. I use my right foot rather than left hand though, and have done since I was 18?

For a car aimed at performance driving, I fail to see how the move to an electronic parking brake has one jot of an impact on 'pure' driver enjoyment.

Not sure what you want my excuse for...??

Are you sure you understand those preferences? The amount of time you spend on here banging on to anyone who will listen how joyous your Alfa auto box is and that there is no need for/only an ill informed idiot would like a manual would indicate otherwise .

See that bit where I said "I don't agree with all opinions, but I understand the preference as they all impact the driving experience"



And I've never said only an uninformed idiot etc.... Merely that the best autoboxes are technically better that manual boxes, any preference is merely halcyon/emotional preference.

[Ares]

.....just to add..... If this Manual-Only 'Pure' sells even as many as half the normal variant, I'll put a sticker on my QF saying 'I wish I was man enough to drive a manual'.

[Teddy Lop]

Amirhussain said:

48Valves said:

What they really need to offer is an M3 touring.

That nobody would buy, just like the E61 M5.

and this sums it up in a nutshell, what petrolheads on a car forum pontificate isn't whats being driven out the showrooms by the people buying new cars. Hell tell me about the importance of manual gearboxes when so many people speccing the e46 would rather the SMG than the ordeal of pushing a clutch.

But get me, with our old e46, like BMW give a damn what we think is proper, they sat there thinking "do people still drive those?"

[SidewaysSi]

Ares said:

.....just to add..... If this Manual-Only 'Pure' sells even as many as half the normal variant, I'll put a sticker on my QF saying 'I wish I was man enough to drive a manual'.

Of course I won't, we all know that and the reasons for it.

So you have an Alfa QF? I don't think you have ever mentioned it - should have definitely said so before

[ellipsis]

E65Ross said:

I can't see the problem with electric handbrakes. Driving along in traffic, come to a stop, take your foot off the brake and the handbrake gets applied. Put your foot on the throttle and it gets taken off and you move. What's wrong with that?

Ross, have things changed with recent M's? When I had my F10 M5 I had to have my foot on the brake to release the 'electronic' parking brake. That was my main gripe. When you drove your Dad's old M6 this would have been the same, no?

In a modern cabin I don't particularly like the aesthetics of a traditional ratchet handbrake, but in my current F80 M3 I don't have the foot on brake - press brake button down ...and then press go pedal delay that I had in my M5.

Simply release handbrake at the same time as applying throttle and be gone.

I had a G30 loan car recently (530d xdrive) and as impressive as it was, the same palaver applied with the electronic P-brake.

If they did work on BMWs as you imply, I'd have no issue.

[E65Ross]

ellipsis said:

E65Ross said:

I can't see the problem with electric handbrakes. Driving along in traffic, come to a stop, take your foot off the brake and the handbrake gets applied. Put your foot on the throttle and it gets taken off and you move. What's wrong with that?

Ross, have things changed with recent M's? When I had my F10 M5 I had to have my foot on the brake to release the 'electronic' parking brake. That was my main gripe. When you drove your Dad's old M6 this would have been the same, no?

In a modern cabin I don't particularly like the aesthetics of a traditional ratchet handbrake, but in my current F80 M3 I don't have the foot on brake - press brake button down ...and then press go pedal delay that I had in my M5.

Simply release handbrake at the same time as applying throttle and be gone.

I had a G30 loan car recently (530d xdrive) and as impressive as it was, the same palaver applied with the electronic P-brake.

If they did work on BMWs as you imply, I'd have no issue.

I must confess I can't actually remember on the M6. A few other cars and my E65 have simply been a case of slowing down to a stop, once you have stopped the handbrake gets applied. Foot off the brake, handbrake stays on. Then press the throttle, handbrake automatically comes off and away you go. Absolutely brilliant.

I'll have to ask my dad about the M6 as I can't remember. His E92 M3 before than was a manual handbrake.

The automatic handbrake I had in a 2011 A6 Audi wasn't as good as the one in my E65 (which, I think was the first car to have an automatic handbrake.... Ironic it's probably the best I've used!).

[Onehp]

Ares said:

I fail to see, this side of the requirement to pull a handbrake turn, where a manual parking brake impacts the driving experience? I also enjoy tail happy fun, winter & summer; wet and dry. I use my right foot rather than left hand though, and have done since I was 18?

I now remember discussing manual vs automatic with you also We don't need agree, but if it isn't too much a hassle to apply a manual handbrake please leave them at least in this kind of car (I will only buy these 2nd hand). I honestly don't understand the fuss in daily life, it's super quick and you have control (it's wholly 'automatic' gesture), and I don't have to mentally check if it actually engaged like with an electronic one.

Anyhow, simply put, it's a third way to steer a car. Steering wheel, (ability to switch off esp - intermediate), throttle (preferably rwd biased, preferably lsd and good throttle response, but actually also does something on fwd+lsd) and third, slowing down the rear axle. Handbrake or actually rear axle brake (some models engage to the front!), giving you more (safe) options when slowing down and before corner Apex. To me it adds an additional dimension to driving dynamics, primarily on gravel roads and snow/ice, which are probably a lot rarer in the (south?) UK than in more northern latitudes... But handbrake turn only doesn't cover it...

Edited by Onehp on Friday 1st February 08:39