RE: Manual, rear-drive BMW M3 'Pure' rumoured
Discussion
lord trumpton said:
dme123 said:
Triumph Man said:
Terminator X said:
Robmarriott said:
How BMW have managed for so long with paint that bad I just don't know.
Same for any robot painted cars surely?TX.
It's been s
t since the E90 genre tbh.CP12 said:
"One manufacturer yet to embrace the trend is BMW"
Apart from when they released the e46 m3 csl which is now around 16 years old...
Seriously, who fking writes these articles 
To be fair, they were talking about "recent years" and the other examples in the article are far newer. Apart from when they released the e46 m3 csl which is now around 16 years old...
Seriously, who f
king writes these articles BMW has not given us anything remotely lightweight in the past few years. A few nods but that's it really. But M cars are hardly hardcore so perhaps to be expected.
nickfrog said:
slipstream 1985 said:
Until bmw can design proper brakes for their road cars I doubt I will ever buy another again.
Get with the programme grand dad ;-). Even a seven year old M135i comes with 4 pot Brembo and huge discs as std. Managed a few sessions at Spa on stock pads without any problems despite 3:00 lap times.Never thought I'd be the one saying this, but... I'm looking forward to 4WD M3s.
BMW nail balance really nicely. However, traction is definitely an issue with 450 bhp. Yeah sure, it's fun to play in MDM mode for a bit, but I have an M3 as a daily.
Before you say get an RS4 or an RS3 or whatever, they just don't feel focussed in the way an M3 does (to me).
I do worry about the move to auto from DCT though.
BMW nail balance really nicely. However, traction is definitely an issue with 450 bhp. Yeah sure, it's fun to play in MDM mode for a bit, but I have an M3 as a daily.
Before you say get an RS4 or an RS3 or whatever, they just don't feel focussed in the way an M3 does (to me).
I do worry about the move to auto from DCT though.
jjr1 said:
I have an M4 Competition and nothing would make me want it in a manual version. I had a Gt86 and loved that in manual and it really suited the car but an M4 is so much bigger and more powerful that the thought of swapping cogs in it manually makes me feel ill.
In fact i can't think of any big powerful car i would want in manual form.
Manual is for small sports cars like an Elise or Gt86 etc.
Makes you feel ill? Bit much isn't it? haha.In fact i can't think of any big powerful car i would want in manual form.
Manual is for small sports cars like an Elise or Gt86 etc.
I have spent a fair amount of time in an M4 DCT and it is a good gearbox that technically suit the car well. It just isn't much fun to use, so as with all autos I just tended to let the box get on with it.
Being forced to shift myself makes me feel more involved in driving the car, which I want in a powerful or sporting car. I don't want that in the rentals I use to commute, so they will be autos for me.
richthebike said:
Never thought I'd be the one saying this, but... I'm looking forward to 4WD M3s.
If it is going to be fully switchable to RWD like the current M5 then I feel the same too. It will offer the best of both worlds for me then. Silly fun when you want it...and plenty of grip in poor weather conditions as well. Mike335i said:
jjr1 said:
I have an M4 Competition and nothing would make me want it in a manual version. I had a Gt86 and loved that in manual and it really suited the car but an M4 is so much bigger and more powerful that the thought of swapping cogs in it manually makes me feel ill.
In fact i can't think of any big powerful car i would want in manual form.
Manual is for small sports cars like an Elise or Gt86 etc.
Makes you feel ill? Bit much isn't it? haha.In fact i can't think of any big powerful car i would want in manual form.
Manual is for small sports cars like an Elise or Gt86 etc.
I have spent a fair amount of time in an M4 DCT and it is a good gearbox that technically suit the car well. It just isn't much fun to use, so as with all autos I just tended to let the box get on with it.
Being forced to shift myself makes me feel more involved in driving the car, which I want in a powerful or sporting car. I don't want that in the rentals I use to commute, so they will be autos for me.
In my M4 though, I very rarely use it in auto mode though and generally only if I am drinking a coffee etc. Of the last 18,000 miles I did last year I bet less than 500 were covered in auto.
Strangely I had the 8 speed ZF box in my 430D before that and only ever used manual on the rare occasion and felt it was pretty damned useless.
jjr1 said:
Strangely I had the 8 speed ZF box in my 430D before that and only ever used manual on the rare occasion and felt it was pretty damned useless.
I don't think there is much point offering a diesel engine with paddles imo, the rev range is so small that there isn't really any point to them. I've never touched the paddles in the diesels I've had. Although I never used the paddles in the Audi TTS either because I just don't get them for some reason. Like you in your M4 though my mate in his Alpine A110 always drives it in manual mode using the paddles. Whereas I just leave the gearbox to do its own thing in the DCT/Auto's I've had.
My old 944 S2 and 205 1.9GTi are both manual and would be unimaginable to have them any other way. They are both still an absolute blast to drive - just hilarious, and banging away at the gears manually is a joy: it just makes sense.
But for the modern motors with 400+ ponies and ridiculously efficient handling, brakes and electronics, I've got far more to be dealing with muscling it around a country road or hitting the apex on a track to be messing around shuffling some stick poking out of floor beside me!
Sticking a manual in to an M3/M4, C63, GT3, whatever would NOT make me enjoy driving the car any more, unless you cut the weight in half, cut the power in half, lost all the electronics, halved the size of the brakes and stuck skinnier tyres on it....... THEN it would be a joy to drive it as a manual.
Oh wait, I just realised...... I already have 2 cars that do just that!
But for the modern motors with 400+ ponies and ridiculously efficient handling, brakes and electronics, I've got far more to be dealing with muscling it around a country road or hitting the apex on a track to be messing around shuffling some stick poking out of floor beside me!
Sticking a manual in to an M3/M4, C63, GT3, whatever would NOT make me enjoy driving the car any more, unless you cut the weight in half, cut the power in half, lost all the electronics, halved the size of the brakes and stuck skinnier tyres on it....... THEN it would be a joy to drive it as a manual.
Oh wait, I just realised...... I already have 2 cars that do just that!
jjr1 said:
I have an M4 Competition and nothing would make me want it in a manual version. I had a Gt86 and loved that in manual and it really suited the car but an M4 is so much bigger and more powerful that the thought of swapping cogs in it manually makes me feel ill.
In fact i can't think of any big powerful car i would want in manual form.
Manual is for small sports cars like an Elise or Gt86 etc.
Absolutely 100% bang on (I just read this AFTER I posted mine above!)In fact i can't think of any big powerful car i would want in manual form.
Manual is for small sports cars like an Elise or Gt86 etc.
wab172uk said:
So the preserve of the Manual, will be for the well off and car collectors only. Great
I don't really interpret that as being the case - it would be too expensive (because of WLTP) to offer the manual in all trim levels (as they'd have to be type approved separately from the automatic) so it'd be restricted to a single one (as the people who really want a manual would accept that restriction)I could be wrong, but I tried to read between the lines. It's an attempt by BMW to offer a relatively purist car without losing out
jjr1 said:
I have an M4 Competition and nothing would make me want it in a manual version. I had a Gt86 and loved that in manual and it really suited the car but an M4 is so much bigger and more powerful that the thought of swapping cogs in it manually makes me feel ill.
In fact i can't think of any big powerful car i would want in manual form.
Manual is for small sports cars like an Elise or Gt86 etc.
I agree completely! I had an e92 m3 manual and loved it. I can't say the "dodgy shift quality" ever entered with my enjoyment when pressing on, in fact it felt pretty good! I admit it wasn't as fast as a DCT but it was hell of a lot more fun. I think that's the fastest I could process comfortably as a driver. In fact i can't think of any big powerful car i would want in manual form.
Manual is for small sports cars like an Elise or Gt86 etc.
My replacement F80 is a whole boatload faster. I got the DCT as I felt I had to move on with technology, and also had a snappy gearshift speed (No AMG style delay when using paddles). I realise as I get older I am maybe not as quick as I thought I was and the car in manual form would be far too much for me to process at speed.
I'm a bit sad that DCT is much less involving, but it is the future for cars with such high capabilities. A slower car like the Elise or GT86 is definitely a better fit for manuals.
That's why I'm having a manual S65 V8 1M replica built. Eheheh
A "pure" BMW will still be a fat old thing though won't it?
Manual box, bin as much of the electronics as possible, skinny tyres, some proper seats, maybe 1200Kg or so. That is pure IMO.
The additon of manual box? Woopee do. Of course no one really wants a light driver focused car these days. They just think/say they do.
Manual box, bin as much of the electronics as possible, skinny tyres, some proper seats, maybe 1200Kg or so. That is pure IMO.
The additon of manual box? Woopee do. Of course no one really wants a light driver focused car these days. They just think/say they do.
All these people bemoaning manual gearboxes in BMWs!
FFS have any of you ever struggled to select a gear in one?
Yes some model have a slightly longer throw than is ideal, yes some can be a little notchy from cold (thats due to oil temp) but the earlier can usually be addressed with some very minor mods (if it really bothers you that much).
I have driven what must be thousands of BMW's (i repair them for a living) and have never thought 'thats a horrible gearbox'
All manual BMWs pretty much have the same gear linkage design which have some components that wear and a higher mileage car will often have a slack gearshift but is relatively cheap and easy to rectify.
My daily is an 540i sport touring with a manual box and its great fun.
I'm not against autos at all and have owned plenty but i like an auto for when i cant be bothered to drive......
FFS have any of you ever struggled to select a gear in one?
Yes some model have a slightly longer throw than is ideal, yes some can be a little notchy from cold (thats due to oil temp) but the earlier can usually be addressed with some very minor mods (if it really bothers you that much).
I have driven what must be thousands of BMW's (i repair them for a living) and have never thought 'thats a horrible gearbox'
All manual BMWs pretty much have the same gear linkage design which have some components that wear and a higher mileage car will often have a slack gearshift but is relatively cheap and easy to rectify.
My daily is an 540i sport touring with a manual box and its great fun.
I'm not against autos at all and have owned plenty but i like an auto for when i cant be bothered to drive......
CP12 said:
"One manufacturer yet to embrace the trend is BMW"
Apart from when they released the e46 m3 csl which is now around 16 years old...
Seriously, who fking writes these articles
Agreed!Apart from when they released the e46 m3 csl which is now around 16 years old...
Seriously, who f
king writes these articles Who is continuing to fall for this Journo s
te and who is continuing to fall for the ste that is being served up by the BMW and the new car manufacturers generally? You can't get more dyed-in-the-wall 'BMW' than me but frankly this is all getting embarrassing! Most on PH hanker after cars that give more of an 'analogue' driving experience, usually through a manual gear box, with rear wheel drive, and a high revving naturally aspirated engine (as sound and responsiveness also matter).
You come on the BMW forums, and all the posters seem to do is complain! If this article is true, surely we should embrace the prospect? Cars as we know them may be a dying breed as electrification takes over, and while it is easy to view the manufacturers as being a bit cynical (especially with regard to their 'lightweight' cars) the idea that they are taking note of their customers, even at the niche end of the market, should be lauded. As a Porsche owner (and yes I'm not such a purist as mine is 4WD, but it's manual and naturally aspirated), the GT3 touring, and even the Carrera T do tick a lot of boxes because of their attempt to recognise what has been lost in the driving experience.
So come on BMW aficionados, if you give positive feedback they might even build it.....
You come on the BMW forums, and all the posters seem to do is complain! If this article is true, surely we should embrace the prospect? Cars as we know them may be a dying breed as electrification takes over, and while it is easy to view the manufacturers as being a bit cynical (especially with regard to their 'lightweight' cars) the idea that they are taking note of their customers, even at the niche end of the market, should be lauded. As a Porsche owner (and yes I'm not such a purist as mine is 4WD, but it's manual and naturally aspirated), the GT3 touring, and even the Carrera T do tick a lot of boxes because of their attempt to recognise what has been lost in the driving experience.
So come on BMW aficionados, if you give positive feedback they might even build it.....
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