RE: Manual, rear-drive BMW M3 'Pure' rumoured
Discussion
TWPC said:
M3 Pure?
Yes please! Why on earth would anyone NOT want BMW to offer it?
Because I can't see it being what we want it to be. Yes please! Why on earth would anyone NOT want BMW to offer it?
We want a purer car focussed on the driving experience for a more reasonable price. A lighter car that is useable as a daily, but without the barriers to involvement. We want steering feel, a slick box, a responsive engine and something that is special at 30mph as well as 130mph, and doesn't cost £60k plus.
What we will get is an inflated price and such low sales that it will be the last manual M car. Or worse, if it sells well it will be used as an excuse to make more ultra exclusive, ultra expensive 'pure' versions (see Porsche and the GT3).
Oh dear, I appear to have become cynical! I hope I am wrong on this ...
Forgive what is perhaps ignorance, but I thought the entire point of an M3 or M5 was to have a car that was otherwise usable everyday car but with a real animal side. However, if you aim to build a "pure" drivers car you wouldn't dream of starting with a 4 door, McPherson strutted, 1600KG+ saloon on a platform designed to sell profitably for £25k.
I just don't really see where something like this sits between a regular M car and an actual sportscar made with actual sportscar ingredients?
I just don't really see where something like this sits between a regular M car and an actual sportscar made with actual sportscar ingredients?
Amirhussain said:
48Valves said:
What they really need to offer is an M3 touring.
That nobody would buy, just like the E61 M5. 
richthebike said:
nickfrog said:
slipstream 1985 said:
Until bmw can design proper brakes for their road cars I doubt I will ever buy another again.
Get with the programme grand dad ;-). Even a seven year old M135i comes with 4 pot Brembo and huge discs as std. Managed a few sessions at Spa on stock pads without any problems despite 3:00 lap times.E65Ross said:
richthebike said:
nickfrog said:
slipstream 1985 said:
Until bmw can design proper brakes for their road cars I doubt I will ever buy another again.
Get with the programme grand dad ;-). Even a seven year old M135i comes with 4 pot Brembo and huge discs as std. Managed a few sessions at Spa on stock pads without any problems despite 3:00 lap times.
They were absolutely garbage, I believe that the more recent M cars do have much better brakes now from what I've read though. Cars like the M2 / M3 are a very good compromise everyday car / sports car.
What I cannot understand is why they need to be so heavy.
This move to offer a 'pure' sports model by BMW is hopefully going to address this excessive weight penalty that seems to affect so many modern cars.
1400kg should be the target weight.
Manual box is lighter than a DSG.
What else would you sacrifice - heavy seats, electric motors for everything (seats, windows), Aircon ?
What I cannot understand is why they need to be so heavy.
This move to offer a 'pure' sports model by BMW is hopefully going to address this excessive weight penalty that seems to affect so many modern cars.
1400kg should be the target weight.
Manual box is lighter than a DSG.
What else would you sacrifice - heavy seats, electric motors for everything (seats, windows), Aircon ?
rev-erend said:
Cars like the M2 / M3 are a very good compromise everyday car / sports car.
What I cannot understand is why they need to be so heavy.
This move to offer a 'pure' sports model by BMW is hopefully going to address this excessive weight penalty that seems to affect so many modern cars.
1400kg should be the target weight.
Manual box is lighter than a DSG.
What else would you sacrifice - heavy seats, electric motors for everything (seats, windows), Aircon ?
Electric windows are now lighter than manual. Air con - sod that.What I cannot understand is why they need to be so heavy.
This move to offer a 'pure' sports model by BMW is hopefully going to address this excessive weight penalty that seems to affect so many modern cars.
1400kg should be the target weight.
Manual box is lighter than a DSG.
What else would you sacrifice - heavy seats, electric motors for everything (seats, windows), Aircon ?
Lets hope they actually do go ahead and make it, I hope they sell lots!!
But for some time now this has been heading towards the sheep following of 'Autos only' - we are told by most Manufactures this is best, and why would we need a manual when maybe its not for all of us, sure Auto's are great for a big Lux barge, or a daily city driver, and of course the evil emissions and mpg - maybe its essential for that mega quick lap of the 'ring, but not so much for the hardcore car nut or the enthusiast wanting some form of unassisted driver engagement.. so I'll be sticking with all my stick shift cars, in my opinion (and it is just that) the whole new car market is becoming bland, same and boring flooded with MPV rubbish and now all the 'good stuff' is heading down the PDK/DCT/Auto only route, shame - less driver involvement and more heavy tech laden, more safety aided (whatever acronym this forms ACS/TCT/TCS/DSC etc etc) god help us to be actually trusted to drive our cars ourselves, use the skill of driving most of us had to learn, and having proper involvement with the cars.
This sort of sheep following madness just makes the classic/modern classics market look even more appealing to drivers who want to drive their cars and not have them automated, heavy, tech laden, robotised same looking euro boxes doing a zillion mpg, with low emissions (no doubt the actual priority of all this automation) and all forced upon us by our dictators sorry (friends or enemies) over in Europe! in the same way everything 'must have a turbo' or less cyl or god forbid if its a V8, it needs to run in 4 cyl mode most of the time :-( all a bit depressing.
Dont start me on Electric cars...
Sad times if they dont continue to make cars we actually have to drive, have a skill like using a clutch and its control, etc etc, seems driverless cars are getting closer and closer..we have all been warned -embrace manual cars while we still can!
:-(
Andy
But for some time now this has been heading towards the sheep following of 'Autos only' - we are told by most Manufactures this is best, and why would we need a manual when maybe its not for all of us, sure Auto's are great for a big Lux barge, or a daily city driver, and of course the evil emissions and mpg - maybe its essential for that mega quick lap of the 'ring, but not so much for the hardcore car nut or the enthusiast wanting some form of unassisted driver engagement.. so I'll be sticking with all my stick shift cars, in my opinion (and it is just that) the whole new car market is becoming bland, same and boring flooded with MPV rubbish and now all the 'good stuff' is heading down the PDK/DCT/Auto only route, shame - less driver involvement and more heavy tech laden, more safety aided (whatever acronym this forms ACS/TCT/TCS/DSC etc etc) god help us to be actually trusted to drive our cars ourselves, use the skill of driving most of us had to learn, and having proper involvement with the cars.
This sort of sheep following madness just makes the classic/modern classics market look even more appealing to drivers who want to drive their cars and not have them automated, heavy, tech laden, robotised same looking euro boxes doing a zillion mpg, with low emissions (no doubt the actual priority of all this automation) and all forced upon us by our dictators sorry (friends or enemies) over in Europe! in the same way everything 'must have a turbo' or less cyl or god forbid if its a V8, it needs to run in 4 cyl mode most of the time :-( all a bit depressing.
Dont start me on Electric cars...
Sad times if they dont continue to make cars we actually have to drive, have a skill like using a clutch and its control, etc etc, seems driverless cars are getting closer and closer..we have all been warned -embrace manual cars while we still can!
:-(
Andy
It gets to a point when you can't really save any more weight by taking stuff out. You have to start replacing stuff with lighter stuff. That then gets expensive and people on the internet begin complaining you're getting less for more.
Cars are getting heavier because they are getting bigger. Bigger stuff is heavier shocker.
If you want light weight you need smaller. Smaller cars are based on cheaper models. These are not as nice inside. People then complain about not as nice.
It's a vicious circle!
Cars are getting heavier because they are getting bigger. Bigger stuff is heavier shocker.
If you want light weight you need smaller. Smaller cars are based on cheaper models. These are not as nice inside. People then complain about not as nice.
It's a vicious circle!
sideways man said:
PaulD86 said:
Ordinarily I'd think this was great news.... OK, to be fair I still think it's a good thing, however, I have yet to drive any BMW with a nice feeling manual gearbox. I'm a big BMW fan but I've found all their manual boxes somewhat unpleasant to use. 
This. Driven lots of BMW over the years, Not one has had a decent gearchange
850i BMW, underpowered but the gearbox was the best I ever experienced in a BMW.
Of course there should be a pure.
Now I would want an estate, xdrive with rear M-diff switchable to rwd, a manual gearbox and a manual handbrake! Estate for family duty, rwd mode for hooning when alone, xdrive for undramatic winter progress during winter with family AND for hooning when alone. Manual box (and clutch) and handbrake necessary for full control. Am I alone? I can only dream...
If it weren't for practicality, I would have kept my finetuned GT86, or would be more interested in the new Z4/Supra, Cayman or if could do with even less luggage space, the A110... Or a tuned MX-5, fun doesn't need to be that expensive...
Now I would want an estate, xdrive with rear M-diff switchable to rwd, a manual gearbox and a manual handbrake! Estate for family duty, rwd mode for hooning when alone, xdrive for undramatic winter progress during winter with family AND for hooning when alone. Manual box (and clutch) and handbrake necessary for full control. Am I alone? I can only dream...
If it weren't for practicality, I would have kept my finetuned GT86, or would be more interested in the new Z4/Supra, Cayman or if could do with even less luggage space, the A110... Or a tuned MX-5, fun doesn't need to be that expensive...
Edited by Onehp on Wednesday 30th January 22:24
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