Driving is a team sport with a lot of non-team players
Discussion
You're painting my actions as being frantic when they're not. I'm just bowling along glad to help fellow road users when I can. It just astonishes me when other people can't see it. Maybe my examples aren't good enough to withstand your detailed criticism. I'm sure many readers know what I'm trying to convey, which is, a lot of people drive around and don't give a damn or drive around and don't recognise that there is a damn to be given.
Put another way, driving would be a lot better for everyone if we all treated it as a team enterprise. Unfortunately, there are too many who consider the road as every man for himself.
It's a team sport with a lot of non-team players.
Put another way, driving would be a lot better for everyone if we all treated it as a team enterprise. Unfortunately, there are too many who consider the road as every man for himself.
It's a team sport with a lot of non-team players.
DickyC said:
You're painting my actions as being frantic when they're not. I'm just bowling along glad to help fellow road users when I can. It just astonishes me when other people can't see it. Maybe my examples aren't good enough to withstand your detailed criticism. I'm sure many readers know what I'm trying to convey, which is, a lot of people drive around and don't give a damn or drive around and don't recognise that there is a damn to be given.
Put another way, driving would be a lot better for everyone if we all treated it as a team enterprise. Unfortunately, there are too many who consider the road as every man for himself.
It's a team sport with a lot of non-team players.
Agree with you entirely OP. Put another way, driving would be a lot better for everyone if we all treated it as a team enterprise. Unfortunately, there are too many who consider the road as every man for himself.
It's a team sport with a lot of non-team players.
One can nitpick in these situations but the general principle of what you are saying stands.
When you come across really good driving/roadcraft these days from another motorist it's very noticeable, whereas it should be the other way round, with the selfish and idiotic standing out.
Down we continue to sink to the level of the seemingly millions of lowest common denominators.
DickyC said:
You're painting my actions as being frantic when they're not. I'm just bowling along glad to help fellow road users when I can. It just astonishes me when other people can't see it. Maybe my examples aren't good enough to withstand your detailed criticism. I'm sure many readers know what I'm trying to convey, which is, a lot of people drive around and don't give a damn or drive around and don't recognise that there is a damn to be given.
Put another way, driving would be a lot better for everyone if we all treated it as a team enterprise. Unfortunately, there are too many who consider the road as every man for himself.
It's a team sport with a lot of non-team players.
You're wasting your time trying to promote courtesy and helping other drivers as a good thing. Drivers (and cyclists) are generally self centred ****s out to make some sort of point these days... look at the dashcam threads.... even on PH letting a vehicle out is seen as some sort of crime or a way to blame the person slowing for the fact that the car behind might not realise and drives into them. The truth is most drivers think they are more important than anyone else or pay little attention to the road or both! London is especially bad for the me, me, me attitude, but the rest of the country is catching up fast.Put another way, driving would be a lot better for everyone if we all treated it as a team enterprise. Unfortunately, there are too many who consider the road as every man for himself.
It's a team sport with a lot of non-team players.
cb1965 said:
look at the dashcam threads.... even on PH letting a vehicle out is seen as some sort of crime or a way to blame the person slowing for the fact that the car behind might not realise and drives into them.
"how to completely misinterpret what's being said on that thread" by cb1965.funinhounslow said:
Flashing a lorry out into a lane that isn't clear is "good roadcraft"?!
Maybe he flashed him to clearly indicate 'I am moving over for you, perhaps others (who are way back with plenty of time) will be observant and do the same'.
One can be pedantic about this either way should you wish to sink things to that level.
jagnet said:
cb1965 said:
look at the dashcam threads.... even on PH letting a vehicle out is seen as some sort of crime or a way to blame the person slowing for the fact that the car behind might not realise and drives into them.
"how to completely misinterpret what's being said on that thread" by cb1965.jagnet said:
Yes, the DCW should have been paying attention, should have been driving slower, etc etc but if the lead car hadn't driven in an unexpected manner and had checked their mirrors before and during their manoeuvre then the accident likely wouldn't have happened. Ergo both parties are to blame for that since either driver could've avoided it occurring through their own actions.
To see that a lot of drivers are non-team players, one only has to sit and watch your average merge-in-turn scenario. I would guess that about a quarter actually manage a tidy and efficient zip-style merge at the merge point itself, another quarter will be in the "open lane" and will courteously facilitate those merging. Then you get about half of all drivers, who decide to merge at 800/600/400 yards to the merge point, by the time they've then queued to the merge point, they close up the gap with the vehicle infront in an attempt to block those trying to merge at the actual merge point (i.e. within the last 200 yards or so before the taper). Then of course there are the odd exceptions (who are surprisingly common in fact) who will sit and block the closing lane, often HGVs.
DeltaTango said:
funinhounslow said:
Flashing a lorry out into a lane that isn't clear is "good roadcraft"?!
Maybe he flashed him to clearly indicate 'I am moving over for you, perhaps others (who are way back with plenty of time) will be observant and do the same'.
One can be pedantic about this either way should you wish to sink things to that level.
Surely indicating and changing lane is enough of a clue to the lorry driver that you're moving over for him. An utterly superfluous flash could easily be misinterpreted as "the road's clear, pull out", esp if the HGV is a left hooker.
I think it's right to be pedantic when you've got 2 cars behind you going 60mph and you've invited a lorry to pull into their path.
funinhounslow said:
Right so a flash of the headlights is ambiguous at best, and is generally taken to mean "go ahead" (yes I know that's not what the HC says, but is taken as such in the real world).
Surely indicating and changing lane is enough of a clue to the lorry driver that you're moving over for him. An utterly superfluous flash could easily be misinterpreted as "the road's clear, pull out", esp if the HGV is a left hooker.
I think it's right to be pedantic when you've got 2 cars behind you going 60mph and you've invited a lorry to pull into their path.
Deary me Surely indicating and changing lane is enough of a clue to the lorry driver that you're moving over for him. An utterly superfluous flash could easily be misinterpreted as "the road's clear, pull out", esp if the HGV is a left hooker.
I think it's right to be pedantic when you've got 2 cars behind you going 60mph and you've invited a lorry to pull into their path.
The OP was making a general statement about driving standards. Clearly the HGV didn't think he was being 'let out' otherwise he would have driven onto the carriageway. Anyone who reacts that way is a poor driver. You've proved my point by being even more pedantic in reply in any case. I also agree with the poster above about merging. Sad isn't it.
I wouldn't flash someone out in this situation, exactly for the reason you describe - other cars not playing the game and at risk of causing confusion.
Yes, I would try to move over if safe, but its up to the driver waiting to make their own decision whether to go and worse case scenario is they have to wait a few more minutes.
Yes, I would try to move over if safe, but its up to the driver waiting to make their own decision whether to go and worse case scenario is they have to wait a few more minutes.
Ed/L152 said:
I wouldn't flash someone out in this situation, exactly for the reason you describe - other cars not playing the game and at risk of causing confusion.
Yes, I would try to move over if safe, but its up to the driver waiting to make their own decision whether to go and worse case scenario is they have to wait a few more minutes.
I'm in the same boat. I'll move over if possible, usually leave the offside indicator on a bit longer as well to indicate I've seen them waiting, I've moved out and I'm staying out. But it's up to the joining driver to move out when they deem it safe, as of course I can't control the traffic behind. Yes, I would try to move over if safe, but its up to the driver waiting to make their own decision whether to go and worse case scenario is they have to wait a few more minutes.
Superleg48 said:
One of the most infruriating things I experience on the road is something I call “ineedtobeinfrontofyouitis”. This occurs when you are cruising down a road, the road ahead is clear and the road behind you is clear, yet as you approach a side turn someone absolutely has to just pull out in front of you and then accelerate painfully slowly up to around 40-50mph (we are on a NSL road for most irritating effect). This causes you to have to slow down. The best ones are when the driver in front then decides about 500 yards along the road that they want to turn right and so slow down to a complete stop before clearing the carriageway.
Why in god’s name could they just have waited for me to pass on by and pull out behind me? Drives me utterly insane.
I see this every bloody morning on my drive to work. Junction 8/9 of the M4, heading West into the average speed check bit where they are (allegedly) digging up the road. The slip goes to a single lane, and 99% of people get their sWhy in god’s name could they just have waited for me to pass on by and pull out behind me? Drives me utterly insane.
t together on the roundabout, nice merge in turn to get ready for the slip lane. Except for the inevitable cock who comes piling round the outside and charges down the slip into the cones, barging into the running lane at the last second. All for what? Overtaking two cars on the slip? If the motorway was clear, I’d just about understand, but you’re heading into several miles of crowded 50 limit. One bloke took on the wrong van driver one morning and got properly blocked at the cones, did make me laugh as everyone sailed past....
LimaDelta said:
Most drivers are barely aware of what their own vehicle is doing, let alone other road users. HTH
I feel the same way.I am quite aware of who is around me, what they are doing or maybe trying to do or going to do. Some people have no clue what they are doing themselves.
I would say though they wouldn't have done it on purpose but they wouldn't have made the effort either
It seems as though some of the negative posters here would be surprised to learn how much communication is done between drivers of large vehicles, particularly using lights. And it's a universal language; lorry drivers from all over Europe are using the same signals. Flash you out, flash you in, flash thanks, flash hello, use indicators quickly left-right-left, to signal thanks. The 'flash you out' signal isn't an order, it's a 'here you are, mate, here"s a bit of help if you need it.' If, as a car driver, you join in, they really appreciate the help.
Something I should have added in last night's exchanges is part of my wishing to be courteous to other road users is to not endanger them.
I just like to envisage a world where drivers work together to make traffic flow better and to make the road a more pleasant place to be.
Something I should have added in last night's exchanges is part of my wishing to be courteous to other road users is to not endanger them.
I just like to envisage a world where drivers work together to make traffic flow better and to make the road a more pleasant place to be.
matthias73 said:
DickyC said:
Quite recently my wife asked me what I think about when I'm driving. She was surprised when I said I think about driving. I'm thinking about what I'm doing, what the car's doing and what others are doing. I met an old boy years ago who told me all the time he's driving he's running scenarios through his mind, "If this happens, I'll do that. If that happens, I'll do this. If that car pulls out, I'll drive off there." I don't go quite that far, but it worked for him. He was in his eighties and claimed he hadn't had an accident since he was a teenager.
I reckon anyone with a motorbike does the same, even if they are in a car at the time.
I haven’t ridden a motorbike on the road for a few years now but drive along as if I’m still on one, constantly thinking what if, reading the road ahead and trying to predict how the mentalists out there will try and kill me but I have the opinion that most people who ride bikes make much better drivers than your average driver.
LHB said:
I haven’t ridden a motorbike on the road for a few years now but drive along as if I’m still on one, constantly thinking what if, reading the road ahead and trying to predict how the mentalists out there will try and kill me but I have the opinion that most people who ride bikes make much better drivers than your average driver.
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