Driving is a team sport with a lot of non-team players

[AC43]

vikingaero said:

DickyC said:

Driving is a team sport. We're all trying to get somewhere and can help one another. But some drivers can't see that help is appropriate, some see it and can't be bothered and some see it and are deliberately obstructive because they can. Some are asleep at the wheel. Not actually asleep but totally unaware of what's going on.

It's so easy to work together and costs nothing.

I have colleagues who are quite reasonable and charming in person and yet who turn into dheads when behind the wheel of a car. One of my managers would think nothing of trying to fk someone over in his car through blocking.

God I experienced this last week. I had to drop my boy and his mate at a climbing wall about three miles away then go back later on to pick them up. On the way down I got stuck in no less than three random sets of temporary traffic lights and a fourth on the way back home. On the way back I managed to figure out a route to circumnavigate all but one sets of lights and was leaving the climbing centre via a side road. The traffic was massively backed up to my left (because of temporary lights) so I indicated right as I drove up to the junction. There was a driver approaching from my right who looked right at me and proceeded to pull up to the car ahead and totally blocked the junction. I flashed and waved and suggested she reversed back a few feet whilst there was still time but no, she refused. Then cars 10, 11 and 12 arrived behind her and that was that. Meanwhile I'm now totally stuck along with three other cars all because of this one person.

I mean what WAS she trying to do? Make us stuck just because she was stuck? What's the fking point????

[Pan Pan Pan]

Mothersruin said:

I'm with you OP, however most people are so wrapped up in their own bubble that it's a minor miracle we even move an inch.

The way I look at good driving is doing your own thing, making decent progress, but without causing another road user to have to change their speed/braking/placement unnecessarily. Basically to have the lowest possible impact on those around me.

If others could do the same, I'd be happy.

I agree with all the above, but would add, that currently, the main and almost only means of communication between the drivers of vehicles is the use of indicators. It is therefore quite depressing how few drivers / riders use them. I rate those who don't give signals, as the automotive equivalent of someone who cannot walk and chew gum at the same time
If signaling could be made compulsory, it would cut accidents at a stroke, it also helps to facilitate smooth movement between different vehicles. Just as the oil in an engine prevents lots of different parts all moving in close proximity to each other from having damaging contacts, Signals do the same job between all different road users (including cyclists, pedestrians etc)
The giving of signals (or not) also gives surrounding drivers / other road users a measure of the competence of the driver of vehicles around them. Where a driver gives signals in good time before a maneuver, it suggests the driver is thinking ahead, about where they are going and what they are doing, Where driver only gives signals just before making a manouver it suggests they are driving by rote, and don't really understand what signals are for. Where a driver gives no signal at all, it suggest the driver is likely to have almost no competence, and is quite probably close to being brain dead. or its nearest equivalent..

[DickyC]

Have you encountered the sub-species who indicate to show you what they've just done?

I'll give two flashes to show I've just left the motorway.

[captain_cynic]

DickyC said:

Have you encountered the sub-species who indicate to show you what they've just done?

I'll give two flashes to show I've just left the motorway.

Ahh yes, users of the confirmicators.

[LHB]

DickyC said:

Have you encountered the sub-species who indicate to show you what they've just done?

I'll give two flashes to show I've just left the motorway.

Those wkers are the WORST.

I hate following people on side roads who just suddenly slam the brakes on and indicate as they turn the corner.

[SOL111]

funinhounslow said:

In all fairness this could quite easily have resulted in an accident.

What if the lorry driver misinterpreted your flash as a signal that the road behind was clear and pulled out without looking?

By "inviting" the lorry to pull out when the road is not clear, you are assuming the lorry driver will still check, and that the two drivers following will see what's going on and also move across. That's an awful lot of assumptions for and HGV and two cars on a dual carriageway...

The two drivers following may not have been asleep at the wheel but been aware that the road behind was empty ("very quiet") and reasoned "it's my right of way, the lorry can join after me, there is no need for me to change lanes"...

In these situations I always pull across if I can, but then let other road users assess the situation and act appropriately. I certainly wouldn't flash an HGV out if the road wasn't clear...

This, sadly.

I'm trying to undo the habit of flashing. It was drummed into me during my IAM but have found it a difficult one to stop due to 20 years of doing it.

I flashed a van recently at a T junction to let him out. I lifted off early to make a decent gap and flashed so he could merge. Unfortunately I expected that he'd made sure the car in front of me had passed but he took my flash as a 'good to go' and t boned the car. Doh.

[xjay1337]

AC43 said:

God I experienced this last week. I had to drop my boy and his mate at a climbing wall about three miles away then go back later on to pick them up. On the way down I got stuck in no less than three random sets of temporary traffic lights and a fourth on the way back home. On the way back I managed to figure out a route to circumnavigate all but one sets of lights and was leaving the climbing centre via a side road. The traffic was massively backed up to my left (because of temporary lights) so I indicated right as I drove up to the junction. There was a driver approaching from my right who looked right at me and proceeded to pull up to the car ahead and totally blocked the junction. I flashed and waved and suggested she reversed back a few feet whilst there was still time but no, she refused. Then cars 10, 11 and 12 arrived behind her and that was that. Meanwhile I'm now totally stuck along with three other cars all because of this one person.

I mean what WAS she trying to do? Make us stuck just because she was stuck? What's the fking point????

Could have gotten out and said something, especially if she ignored you. I would have just sat on the horn ;-D

[Chris944]

DickyC said:

It's a team sport with a lot of non-team players.

I think this is an excellent characterisation. And flashing a lorry in a layby waiting to come out, to show that you are/have moved over, is simply being courteous and considerate in my book.

[crofty1984]

vikingaero said:

I have colleagues who are quite reasonable and charming in person and yet who turn into dheads when behind the wheel of a car. One of my managers would think nothing of trying to fk someone over in his car through blocking. A good 40% of drivers are the ME! ME! ME! generation. All that matters is them and the world stops and revolves around them and their inane manoeuvres.

I miss my battered Avensis. People tend to leave off that bullst when they realised that for the price of a front wing repair on their car, I could buy three more of my car.

[heebeegeetee]

funinhounslow said:

Well for a start it's not a "slow lane".

Nor does any motorist have a "right of way", there will be an issue of priority.

The OP's flash of lights was simply to let another road user he was there. His change of lane is a separate event, which could be of use to other traffic. Unfortunately many drivers are completely unaware of what's going on, and huge amounts of congestion arises collectively around the country on each and every day, which in turn leads to frustration and collisions, and it's all self-defeating etc etc.

If everyone shared the attitude of the OP life on the road would be so much better, but that's not how society operates and it's getting worse imo (as is congestion).

[theplayingmantis]

xjay1337 said:

Could have gotten out and said something, especially if she ignored you. I would have just sat on the horn ;-D

you cannot hoot people, even if they unaware of your presence, let alone sit on your horn.

PH is full of people who condone drivers going postal on anyone who dares give another driver a pip even if perfectly justified to make them aware of your presence.

[xjay1337]

theplayingmantis said:

you cannot hoot people, even if they unaware of your presence, let alone sit on your horn.

PH is full of people who condone drivers going postal on anyone who dares give another driver a pip even if perfectly justified to make them aware of your presence.

You can do what you like.

[greenarrow]

I totally agree with you OP. Its so depressing how few drivers act with thought for others.

Classic example, someone is trying to turn right and traffic backs up behind them as maybe 10-15 cars coming from the other direction wont let the car turn. Really gets me that one.

Second one. At the end of my road, I have to join a 50MPH limited piece of dual carriageway without the benefit of a slip road. Sometimes a dozen cars or more will cruise past in the inside lane when the outside lane is empty. Ok, I know traffic joining a dual carriageway has to give way, but wouldn't it be nice if one of them had the gumption to move over.

Third one which happens every day. You wait behind a parked car on your side of the road and the driver coming the other way fails to acknowledge your existence as they pass you. I notice that no-one over the age of 65 seems able to perform this basic courtesy. The older generation in fact are pretty shocking when it comes to manners on the road, so its not just the so called "me, me me generation" that are bad at these things.

[Pica-Pica]

Muddle238 said:

I'm in the same boat. I'll move over if possible, usually leave the offside indicator on a bit longer as well to indicate I've seen them waiting, I've moved out and I'm staying out. But it's up to the joining driver to move out when they deem it safe, as of course I can't control the traffic behind.

Agree, except that indicating right when you are following another car in the outside lane is a politer way of saying I want to overtake (I tend to use that to let the driver in front know, rather than flashing, and also to let any driver following me that my intention is to overtake the car in front - once they move back in); but I use it sparingly.

[Pica-Pica]

SOL111 said:

This, sadly.

I'm trying to undo the habit of flashing. It was drummed into me during my IAM but have found it a difficult one to stop due to 20 years of doing it.

I flashed a van recently at a T junction to let him out. I lifted off early to make a decent gap and flashed so he could merge. Unfortunately I expected that he'd made sure the car in front of me had passed but he took my flash as a 'good to go' and t boned the car. Doh.

Was ‘flashing’ drummed into you at IAM? I rather think the opposite.

[theplayingmantis]

xjay1337 said:

theplayingmantis said:

you cannot hoot people, even if they unaware of your presence, let alone sit on your horn.

PH is full of people who condone drivers going postal on anyone who dares give another driver a pip even if perfectly justified to make them aware of your presence.

You can do what you like.

Of course you can, but there are apparently many many frothing lunatics on the road who take a hoot as an personal affront to their parentage it seems and want to get stabby on the back of it.

Evidence on PH supports that, as lots of posters see a horn as confrontational.

Not quite sure whats gone so wrong in those posters lives that makes something as arbitrary and inconsequential as being tooted an apparent confrontational event and a justification of violence, let alone those who get so wound up by it they actually perpetrate the violent action (or threaten to), but hey there you go.

so do so at your own peril is the message from PH...

strange times we live in, strange times.

[theplayingmantis]

Pica-Pica said:

SOL111 said:

This, sadly.

I'm trying to undo the habit of flashing. It was drummed into me during my IAM but have found it a difficult one to stop due to 20 years of doing it.

I flashed a van recently at a T junction to let him out. I lifted off early to make a decent gap and flashed so he could merge. Unfortunately I expected that he'd made sure the car in front of me had passed but he took my flash as a 'good to go' and t boned the car. Doh.

Was ‘flashing’ drummed into you at IAM? I rather think the opposite.

Hes clearly saying the undoing of the habit was drummed into him at IAM, but having done it for 20 years previous, he finds it hard to stop.

[funinhounslow]

Chris944 said:

DickyC said:

It's a team sport with a lot of non-team players.

I think this is an excellent characterisation. And flashing a lorry in a layby waiting to come out, to show that you are/have moved over, is simply being courteous and considerate in my book.

Well in my book it’s ambiguous and confusing at best and dangerous at worst when there are two cars behind you. Surely the fact you are indicating and changing lanes is sufficient to show you are moving over?

heebeegeetee said:

The OP's flash of lights was simply to let another road user he was there.

Well according to the Highway Code that is what the flash should mean. But the OP tells us it was “It was very quiet. Good weather, good visibility.” so I’m not sure it was necessary.

And in any case…

DeltaTango said:

Maybe he flashed him to clearly indicate 'I am moving over for you, perhaps others (who are way back with plenty of time) will be observant and do the same'.

DickyC said:

The 'flash you out' signal isn't an order, it's a 'here you are, mate, here"s a bit of help if you need it.' If, as a car driver, you join in, they really appreciate the help.

Like I said, ambiguous and confusing.

I think most people would interpret a flash of the headlights to mean “go ahead” (irrespective of what the Highway Code says). By indicating and moving to the outside lane I think it’s clear what you’re doing. You’ve got out of his way, now leave him and the two cars behind you to sort themselves out.

[J4CKO]

Traffic could flow a lot better, things like,

Indicating, showign others drivers your intention rather than letting them guess, give us a clue ! but no, so many negotiate a roundabout with absolutely no indication, until they need to in, then its all "Witness my magnificent flashing Orange lights of intention" but when it may benefit anyone else dont bother, going along a dual carriageway, just pull out !

Same as when someone on one side is letting a car emerge from a side road, but then the traffic on the other side either decides to carry on through or just stop in front impeding their process, you can see some of them, eyes straight ahead, must not let anyone out, ever as will detract from my prime directive of getting to the office/home by 3 seconds. Thing is, next time they sit there "Oh Why will nobody let me out", a bit of give and take and traffic moves faster.

Come to a two lane roundabout entry like near where I live, why not plonk yourself slap in the middle, sod anyone who thinks they can use the other lane, there is only one lane, mine, mine, mine

See it in supermarkets, woman the other day in front of the cold meats, examining every packet of ham for something, trolley in the way, her in the way, totally oblivious but had to examine every fking packet, I was polite until I clocked her notice me and carry on anyway, I just leant across and grabbed what I wanted.

Same with hogging an overtaking lane, lad in a Polo today, seven roundabouts, doing 45/50, nothing on the inside, except the stream of cars going past whilst he ambled along.

[john41901]

Non team players ? There is one car brand that predominantly falls into this category, who will try to block you from changing lanes, merging, who will never let you out of a junction, or who will speed up as you overtake them has to be BMW. What is it about this brand that makes them drive like complete s ?