Why can nobody drive in the snow
Discussion
Car-Matt said:
CABC said:
Car-Matt said:
300bhp/ton said:
Car-Matt said:
Can't see it, AutoExpress block adblockers. If it's a dumb 4x4 on summers vs 2wd on winters pointless test. Then all I can say is REREAD the posts above.... and lookup the word "equal" .... lol
;-)
PS: front or rear locking diffs might also help traction, delaying the use of brakes and especially effective in split friction...
ToothbrushMan said:
and dont you just love weathermen who after announcing snow and ice saying "but dont venture out in your car unless your journey is absolutely necessary".
no, my journey is totally unnecessary I just thought I would drive around aimlessly for a bit until I got bored.
Plenty of people drive in the snow when they don't need to. I had to dig my boss out after he gave me a lift home during the heavy snow last year. He could easily have got the subway to work, or walked, or worked from home. no, my journey is totally unnecessary I just thought I would drive around aimlessly for a bit until I got bored.
Car-Matt said:
That’s not a permanent 4wd car. By the time the 4wd kicked it, it was stuck. RicksAlfas said:
Balmoral said:
300, I grasp both your points there, thanks.
If everyone said that, the internet would be much smaller.
CABC said:
to be fair it is the "usual" comparison. I don't think the Kuga has a locked centre diff. Crossovers drive like FWD cars in cornering and braking (i think**)
And there are different ways to corner. Simply going to fast and turning the steering wheel isn't going to give good results, however downs
ting, making use of the traction and setting the car up for the corner by altering the yaw angle/attitude of the car, such as slightly invoking the back end out a bit, will allow you to corner quite differently.I'm not saying we all need to drive like Ari Vatanen. As you should still be going at a slow to moderate speed, not flat out. But it will make a big difference. A bit of left foot braking or a flick on the steering wheel or even a bit of handbrake can help a lot. Some of these things are harder to do in modern cars with electronic handbrakes or electronics that won't let you use the brake and accelerator at the same time. But you just adapt to the car and conditions.
Thesprucegoose said:
The snow always brings out the driving gods. I was taking it steady up a hill when this winter clad tyre car overtook me. It was funny really as the next bend he was in the ditch. Same thing as a Landy in a ditch, but that was ice.
I actually think a lot can drive ok in snow, slow and steady wins the race. But the winter tyres brigade love the 2 days of snow we get so they can statistics there purchases.
Good point, slow ain't bad. I actually think a lot can drive ok in snow, slow and steady wins the race. But the winter tyres brigade love the 2 days of snow we get so they can statistics there purchases.
Actually the worst scenario is that roads become slippery locally and suddenly. This can be rain turning to ice on a cold surface, or also snow that is packed to ice, usually happens in places already dangerous.
Or simply snow and an incline. Upwards some driver ability can help with momentum, downhill even the best driver can become a passenger...
For these secnarios, a summer tyred vehicles becomes completely helpless and a danger. A winter tyred car will have *some* grip. Or should I say, All Season?
But in the end, it's always the driver and their decisions that cause crashes... On summers, that can be the decision to drive at all...
Edited by Onehp on Thursday 24th January 13:26
300bhp/ton said:
And there are different ways to corner. Simply going to fast and turning the steering wheel isn't going to give good results, however downsting, making use of the traction and setting the car up for the corner by altering the yaw angle/attitude of the car, such as slightly invoking the back end out a bit, will allow you to corner quite differently.
I'm not saying we all need to drive like Ari Vatanen. As you should still be going at a slow to moderate speed, not flat out. But it will make a big difference. A bit of left foot braking or a flick on the steering wheel or even a bit of handbrake can help a lot. Some of these things are harder to do in modern cars with electronic handbrakes or electronics that won't let you use the brake and accelerator at the same time. But you just adapt to the car and conditions.
Is this a serious post?ting, making use of the traction and setting the car up for the corner by altering the yaw angle/attitude of the car, such as slightly invoking the back end out a bit, will allow you to corner quite differently.I'm not saying we all need to drive like Ari Vatanen. As you should still be going at a slow to moderate speed, not flat out. But it will make a big difference. A bit of left foot braking or a flick on the steering wheel or even a bit of handbrake can help a lot. Some of these things are harder to do in modern cars with electronic handbrakes or electronics that won't let you use the brake and accelerator at the same time. But you just adapt to the car and conditions.
On the road, in the snow, at low to moderate speed, we should all be doing scandi flicks and using the handbrake, trail braking into corners to get some oversteer etc.
Car-Matt said:
TBF i think its representative of the vast majority of 4x4 cars on the road (300bhp/ton will carry on arguing as he is a landrover enthusiast and therefore will only consider 'proper' 4x4's however these make up a tiny proportion of whats on the roads), and yes the video shows the usual comparison but also shows the other combos too. I made no comment or claims about the results, just shared it for people to see what happens.
So what are the "vast" majority of 4x4's on the road?Toyota, Nissan, Mitsubishi, Jeep or whatever doesn't fundamentally differ from many of the LR products in terms of basic AWD operation.
And cough cough...
Onehp said:
Alpinestars said:
That’s not a permanent 4wd car. By the time the 4wd kicked it, it was stuck.
Modern 4wd clutch systems will close clutches very quickly and preemptively even, permanent 4wd is overrated. See also my above longer post. The only thing stopping me from driving in the snow is the distinct lack of any snow to drive in. I had to find an ancient hump backed bridge over a small river before I could lose traction unprovoked (ahem) and kick the back out a little.
Given the time of day I drive, either 4:30am or midnight, the rural roads I use are generally deserted, so when there is some snow it is generally entertaining and perfectly easy to negotiate. Black ice is much more of a worry.
Given the time of day I drive, either 4:30am or midnight, the rural roads I use are generally deserted, so when there is some snow it is generally entertaining and perfectly easy to negotiate. Black ice is much more of a worry.
Edited by ATG on Thursday 24th January 13:46
Alpinestars said:
Onehp said:
Alpinestars said:
That’s not a permanent 4wd car. By the time the 4wd kicked it, it was stuck.
Modern 4wd clutch systems will close clutches very quickly and preemptively even, permanent 4wd is overrated. See also my above longer post. At best, it might have been a few feet higher up accounting for marginal higher momentum from a better start with true 4wd in the initial first second or so, a marginal difference at best and completely unhelpful for the task at hand, unless your driveway was thas feet longer perhaps...
Overall, I think your comment is a perfect illustration of how much drive is overrated...
Thesprucegoose said:
slow and steady wins the race.
Off road one of the golden rules is usually "as slow as possible as fast as necessary".This is because sometimes you do need to go faster or require more momentum. Likewise there are also times when locking up or spinning a wheel or giving the steering wheel a flick are also advantageous.
Also on the road network, people usually need to get places. You might have all day to do 2 miles to shop down the road, so don't mind running at 5mph at ticker over in 1st or 2nd. But other people might have 30+ miles to go and simply don't have the time to drive that slowly, e.g. 30 miles at 5mph would take 6 hours!!!
If you know the roads/area, then on straight bits of roads with no or few turnings and in good visibility you can run a lot quicker. As all you'll need to do is slow in a straight line and you can see plenty far enough for this. For bends, corners, junctions or other potential hazards you'll want to slow up but only to the speed that the grip level permits, you usually don't need to come to walking pace.
One of the most annoying things about getting about in the snow is people running slowly. Often on cleared roads where there is only snow either side of the road or very occasionally in the middle where they aren't driving anyhow. In these conditions the tarmac is just cold and wet and has the same grip/traction as any other cold and wet day. Where people would normally be tearing about.
Onehp said:
Alpinestars said:
Onehp said:
Alpinestars said:
That’s not a permanent 4wd car. By the time the 4wd kicked it, it was stuck.
Modern 4wd clutch systems will close clutches very quickly and preemptively even, permanent 4wd is overrated. See also my above longer post. At best, it might have been a few feet higher up accounting for marginal higher momentum from a better start with true 4wd in the initial first second or so, a marginal difference at best and completely unhelpful for the task at hand, unless your driveway was thas feet longer perhaps...
Overall, I think your comment is a perfect illustration of how much drive is overrated...
Alpinestars said:
My comment is based on the conclusions of the makers of the video.
Indeed, would say that comment is incorrect, already on the slope the electronics already know that the traction is limited and the centre clutch is closed already. Also the car slithered backwards (all four wheels locked) to a point lower than the 2wd car. Courtesy of the higher weight probably I would add. Maybe take Matts conclusion to heart: "without the right rubber, a 4wd car is just as useless as a 2wd car" ...
Onehp said:
Indeed, would say that comment is incorrect, already on the slope the electronics already know that the traction is limited and the centre clutch is closed already. Also the car slithered backwards (all four wheels locked) to a point lower than the 2wd car. Courtesy of the higher weight probably I would add.
Maybe take Matts conclusion to heart: "without the right rubber, a 4wd car is just as useless as a 2wd car" ...
The right tyres make all the difference but awd does help. Unless truly coasting it can spreadi the engine drive/Braking across up to twice the area and doubles the opportunity to find traction. In some cases it improves braking but I think that was over rated, in the tests, based on the vehicles that were used. Maybe take Matts conclusion to heart: "without the right rubber, a 4wd car is just as useless as a 2wd car" ...
Onehp said:
Maybe take Matts conclusion to heart: "without the right rubber, a 4wd car is just as useless as a 2wd car" ...
My wife's Tiguan has 4Motion and winter tyres - in the icy snow we've had in the last couple of days it's still pretty iffy braking and cornering, on flowing bends the car was still going sideways at very low speed. The thing it's great at is pulling away from rest in a straight line - even pretty firm acceleration didn't break traction. If all winter tyred vehicles are like that it's easy to imagine why their drivers get caught out.
Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff