Why can nobody drive in the snow
Discussion
I made the mistake of driving to a Caterham club meet once in the snow. The car was around 230HP and shod with 48’s, not commonly known for snow work. Some nasty hills and lots of frozen lumps smashing off the underside. I actually totally lost it at one point down a minor hill and just drifted along, luckily picked up some slush and pulled the front straight, much to the bemusement of others. When I arrived, exhausted and wired it was a bit of a reality check when all the rest of them turned up in 4 x 4’s. To this day I’ve no clue why I did it. It was proof though that anything is possible if you’re careful/lucky.
Kept spinning the rear wheel on the motorbike today 
just kept the power on, it'll straighten out eventually...
When we had snow last year and it finally got too bad for the motorbike (and by that I mean my wife forbade me from riding it) i took the car with winters on. London was a ghost town and I actually had a really enjoyable drive to work.
just kept the power on, it'll straighten out eventually...When we had snow last year and it finally got too bad for the motorbike (and by that I mean my wife forbade me from riding it) i took the car with winters on. London was a ghost town and I actually had a really enjoyable drive to work.
In response to the original OP, one good reason why people can't drive in the snow is because they can't even do it in the dry!
Ignoring last winter, the past few years I've seen little snow, so I was a little out of touch driving in it. I loaded up YouTube and watched hundreds of dashcam snow fail type videos, usually Russian based admittedly but a fair few from Europe and North America. When a car slides and is filmed by a random guy on the pavement, you can see what the wheels are doing and why it may/may not be in control. I felt that I learnt a lot about vehicle dynamics in slippery conditions, at the expense of those in the videos of course, but nonetheless it gave me a lot more understanding about snow driving. Lots of videos of a car locked up, wheels turned, sliding towards a stuck vehicle. You see the crash before it even happens, you look at the locked wheels and think "if only they released the brakes, they'd steer around it", until eventually they bounce off each other like boules. I'd recommend it to anyone, unfortunately as I mentioned at the top of my post, it would seem most drivers aren't interested in driving and are unlikely to take the time to learn a bit about snow before they set off in a car in it.
Ignoring last winter, the past few years I've seen little snow, so I was a little out of touch driving in it. I loaded up YouTube and watched hundreds of dashcam snow fail type videos, usually Russian based admittedly but a fair few from Europe and North America. When a car slides and is filmed by a random guy on the pavement, you can see what the wheels are doing and why it may/may not be in control. I felt that I learnt a lot about vehicle dynamics in slippery conditions, at the expense of those in the videos of course, but nonetheless it gave me a lot more understanding about snow driving. Lots of videos of a car locked up, wheels turned, sliding towards a stuck vehicle. You see the crash before it even happens, you look at the locked wheels and think "if only they released the brakes, they'd steer around it", until eventually they bounce off each other like boules. I'd recommend it to anyone, unfortunately as I mentioned at the top of my post, it would seem most drivers aren't interested in driving and are unlikely to take the time to learn a bit about snow before they set off in a car in it.
snow happens for about 2 weeks in a year in the UK.
couple that with the fact that many people are idiots with no common sense
couple that with the fact that many people with no knowledge depend on their vehicles 'systems'
couple that with the fact that people don't even know what drvetrain they have
couple that with the fact that people buy crap tyres
couple that with the fact that people are always in the hurry
the list could go on...
couple that with the fact that many people are idiots with no common sense
couple that with the fact that many people with no knowledge depend on their vehicles 'systems'
couple that with the fact that people don't even know what drvetrain they have
couple that with the fact that people buy crap tyres
couple that with the fact that people are always in the hurry
the list could go on...
Three main reasons :
1, RWD German cars with automatic transmissions lots of torque and fat tyres which are designed to be driven on winter tyres during the winter, like they do in Germany.
2, Summer tyres fitted to the aforementioned cars in winter.
3, Infrequent snow. 10-15 cm of snow fell in the South of England on a day in December 2017. This was the first significant, disruptive snowfall in the South for almost four years. Here in Leicestershire, we have had no snow yet this winter, and none is currently forecast.
1, RWD German cars with automatic transmissions lots of torque and fat tyres which are designed to be driven on winter tyres during the winter, like they do in Germany.
2, Summer tyres fitted to the aforementioned cars in winter.
3, Infrequent snow. 10-15 cm of snow fell in the South of England on a day in December 2017. This was the first significant, disruptive snowfall in the South for almost four years. Here in Leicestershire, we have had no snow yet this winter, and none is currently forecast.
Edited by Bradgate on Tuesday 22 January 22:48
Winter or all season tyres help.
However the biggest issue is really wide “sporty” tyres. A chap at work has a 318d M Sport with the biggest and widest M wheels on it.
As he said, “I didn’t know there was a slope on my road until it snowed”. Old BMs with sensible wheel widths were fine.
However the biggest issue is really wide “sporty” tyres. A chap at work has a 318d M Sport with the biggest and widest M wheels on it.
As he said, “I didn’t know there was a slope on my road until it snowed”. Old BMs with sensible wheel widths were fine.
Well, living in the NE of Scotland we do get snow most winters. Not a huge amount in recent years but there’s usually some, and if you go inland there are ski centres about 45 mins drive away.
Normally when it snows there are a few people caught out but got the most part things just continue.
Except last week we had about an inch and my normal 20 min commute turned into an hour of total muppetry.
Various lorry crashes, cars going over roundabouts and loads of people complaining about the state of the roads. Compacted snow quickly turns to ice, even on busy roads.
I reckon people can’t drive in snow because they’re idiots that don’t anticipate or adjust to the conditions no matter where you are.
It’s pretty cold tonight (about -4) so I expect more people being caught out by things like frost.
Normally when it snows there are a few people caught out but got the most part things just continue.
Except last week we had about an inch and my normal 20 min commute turned into an hour of total muppetry.
Various lorry crashes, cars going over roundabouts and loads of people complaining about the state of the roads. Compacted snow quickly turns to ice, even on busy roads.
I reckon people can’t drive in snow because they’re idiots that don’t anticipate or adjust to the conditions no matter where you are.
It’s pretty cold tonight (about -4) so I expect more people being caught out by things like frost.
Something I've always pondered too. Echoing the above about driving standards, fat tyres, crap cars and the usual, there's something else never mentioned and I'm not sure why as it's pretty bloody relevant.
England has, what, 250,000km of roads. England, Scotland and Wales combined is around 400k km so we're not far off.
In the snow, cars can do, what, 20mph? In the snow, the safe stopping distance would be 100-150 metres between cars. Call it 100m to make it easier.
So it's fair to say that in snowy, icy conditions, the road network can cope with 10 cars per km of road. Once you start to exceed that capacity, problems ensue.
If the maximum, spaced across the network is 10 cars per km, and 400,000km of road, that's a maximum of 4 million cars on the road at any one time. Now that is averaged across the ENTIRE road network. In towns and cities with single lanes and higher traffic density already above capacity, a light dusting of snow takes capacity well beyond acceptable parameters.
I'm sure the true figure for rush hour is double that.
For the UK road network to function to a satisfactory standard, vehicle density (cars per km) has to remain below a certain level. Due to adverse weather conditions, that capacity drops dramatically (according to "the book" stopping distances are increased tenfold in snow and ice, but being the real world, cars don't do 70mph on ice. So I don't vouch for the accuracy but my numbers aren't going to be far off.
So take a road network that's hideously over capacity due to snow, and then add on all the other guff, it's a recipe for disaster.
During my pizza days, snowy days were a delight. By 6pm the roads were empty and the snow had little impact, but driving during rush hour was impossible. (On a similarly related theme, I do recall one snowy evening when a customer complained bitterly about the hour long wait. Collection would be 10 minutes. "Oh we can't possibly collect, it HAS to be delivered - our road is completely blocked with snow and ice, we can't even get out the front door". How the juddering f
k are we supposed to get IN then? The worst part was even when pointed out to them the predicament, they still didn't get it).
TL:DR
Yes, blame driving standards till the cows come home, but it's worth noting the volume of traffic and the holding capacity of the road network. At 40mph you can cram in 25 cars per km of road - in snow that drops to a fifth.
Banning 'non essential' travel is futile. Everyone thinks their journey is 'essential' . Yeah, if you're leaving work, fair enough, but you still get the supermarket runs, Titania has GOT to get to ballet, and then drop Oberon off at cubs, MIL is due at 6 and michelle is popping round for a chardonnay and so on and so forth.
Even if you can drive in the snow, doing so with a road network over capacity makes ones own abilities pretty pointless until the traffic has cleared, or at least the number of vehicles on the road drops below the critical figure.
England has, what, 250,000km of roads. England, Scotland and Wales combined is around 400k km so we're not far off.
In the snow, cars can do, what, 20mph? In the snow, the safe stopping distance would be 100-150 metres between cars. Call it 100m to make it easier.
So it's fair to say that in snowy, icy conditions, the road network can cope with 10 cars per km of road. Once you start to exceed that capacity, problems ensue.
If the maximum, spaced across the network is 10 cars per km, and 400,000km of road, that's a maximum of 4 million cars on the road at any one time. Now that is averaged across the ENTIRE road network. In towns and cities with single lanes and higher traffic density already above capacity, a light dusting of snow takes capacity well beyond acceptable parameters.
I'm sure the true figure for rush hour is double that.
For the UK road network to function to a satisfactory standard, vehicle density (cars per km) has to remain below a certain level. Due to adverse weather conditions, that capacity drops dramatically (according to "the book" stopping distances are increased tenfold in snow and ice, but being the real world, cars don't do 70mph on ice. So I don't vouch for the accuracy but my numbers aren't going to be far off.
So take a road network that's hideously over capacity due to snow, and then add on all the other guff, it's a recipe for disaster.
During my pizza days, snowy days were a delight. By 6pm the roads were empty and the snow had little impact, but driving during rush hour was impossible. (On a similarly related theme, I do recall one snowy evening when a customer complained bitterly about the hour long wait. Collection would be 10 minutes. "Oh we can't possibly collect, it HAS to be delivered - our road is completely blocked with snow and ice, we can't even get out the front door". How the juddering f
k are we supposed to get IN then? The worst part was even when pointed out to them the predicament, they still didn't get it).TL:DR
Yes, blame driving standards till the cows come home, but it's worth noting the volume of traffic and the holding capacity of the road network. At 40mph you can cram in 25 cars per km of road - in snow that drops to a fifth.
Banning 'non essential' travel is futile. Everyone thinks their journey is 'essential' . Yeah, if you're leaving work, fair enough, but you still get the supermarket runs, Titania has GOT to get to ballet, and then drop Oberon off at cubs, MIL is due at 6 and michelle is popping round for a chardonnay and so on and so forth.
Even if you can drive in the snow, doing so with a road network over capacity makes ones own abilities pretty pointless until the traffic has cleared, or at least the number of vehicles on the road drops below the critical figure.
I live near Heathrow. We had a little sprinkling of snow, probably about an inch at the most.
I was working late with a colleague tonight and when we left, the car park had been freshly coated so we had a little fun. He has a 520d, I have a Merc R-class.
Obviously he had a lot of fun making snow circles, but I noticed that the grip in my 4WD R-class is particularly poor. It understeers as much as a Fiesta. While it's nice to know I have a little more traction (through pretty mediocre tyres) if I get stuck, the way the car handles doesn't inspire any confidence. I used my Impreza last time we had snow, and it's on Vredesteins that handled the snow incredibly well. Only trouble is the heater doesn't work! Been meaning to get a new heater matrix, guess my hand is forced now.
I was working late with a colleague tonight and when we left, the car park had been freshly coated so we had a little fun. He has a 520d, I have a Merc R-class.
Obviously he had a lot of fun making snow circles, but I noticed that the grip in my 4WD R-class is particularly poor. It understeers as much as a Fiesta. While it's nice to know I have a little more traction (through pretty mediocre tyres) if I get stuck, the way the car handles doesn't inspire any confidence. I used my Impreza last time we had snow, and it's on Vredesteins that handled the snow incredibly well. Only trouble is the heater doesn't work! Been meaning to get a new heater matrix, guess my hand is forced now.
All-season tyres, that's where it's at, particularly for the UK.
The new Conti four-season tyre is best in snow.
The Goodyear is best in the wet.
CrossClimates best in the dry.
All according to the AutoBild review I was reading in the TüV test station last week.
Now, if your pocket isn't deep enough for the premiun ASTs, then even the mid-range offerings are worth a look.
I replaced my winter tyres this year (Goodride, 4mm, lethal) with Nexen N Blue all-seasons and they are seriously impressive. €70 a corner vs. €110+ for the premium ASTs.
The new Conti four-season tyre is best in snow.
The Goodyear is best in the wet.
CrossClimates best in the dry.
All according to the AutoBild review I was reading in the TüV test station last week.
Now, if your pocket isn't deep enough for the premiun ASTs, then even the mid-range offerings are worth a look.
I replaced my winter tyres this year (Goodride, 4mm, lethal) with Nexen N Blue all-seasons and they are seriously impressive. €70 a corner vs. €110+ for the premium ASTs.
EazyDuz said:
Op claims to have seen cars locking up their wheels. Sounds like BS to me, ABS is on basically all road worthy cars these days
They lock and release, as there is no grip the car just wafts past it’s stopping point. What you’ve said is part of the problem. People actually believe ABS will save them, probably most don’t even know how to use it, steering straight with their foot buried into the carpet! Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff