RE: Ginetta confirms development of 600hp supercar

[RumbleOfThunder]

Mark-C said:

RumbleOfThunder said:

Tired said:

Do Ginetta have a wind tunnel?

If not, do they use someone else's?

Why do they need a wind tunnel?

Because CFD only gets you so far? It's normal to check CFD results in a wind tunnel for a race car - seems to make sense for a road car as well.

They used Williams Advanced Engineering for wind tunnel work on the LMP1 car.

So far as in 99% of the way there. CFD is incredibly good these days, so much so that validation against wind tunnel data is almost a waste of time on a road car.

[Troubleatmill]

cookie1600 said:

Usual slow, drawn-out reveal over several weeks that we seem to get these days - so very much McLaren like in that respect. As much as I can tell, it looks like a Corvette Z06 and I'mm surprised they haven't used a crate motor from GM or Ford which could easily give the quoted horsepowers.

So more of a competitor for that car than a mid-engined McLaren then?



https://www.chevrolet.co.uk/cars/corvette-z06/#

Better be near the £100k mark to compete.

Just what I was thinking.

You want a 200mph+ car (OK not as desirable as McLaren etc etc ) - But Ring lap times etc etc show it is a beast.

Why develop your own engine? - just buy a crate LS or LT - and build your car around it.

[Mr Overheads]

Gameface said:

Interesting. Did they say when they expect to do the full reveal?

Yes but I’m not saying.

[Mr Overheads]

Edmundo2 said:

Also hope it's good looking in a curvaceous aggressive manner. Unfortunately the glimpse of the nose of the car in the render looks fecking terrible, ( and we've seen what sort of reaction an ugly mug gets over in the TVR forum. Can kill a car before it gets off the drawing board )..

I repeat I’ve seen the car, that’s a photo in the story above not a render.

[anonymous-user]

RumbleOfThunder said:

So far as in 99% of the way there. CFD is incredibly good these days, so much so that validation against wind tunnel data is almost a waste of time on a road car.

I'd have thought CFD is better than all but a rolling road wind tunnel these days no?

[anonymous-user]

Mr Overheads said:

I repeat I’ve seen the car, that’s a photo in the story above not a render.

Does it have the profile of the second pic? That looks viper sexy to me.

[Robert-nszl1]

Hugh Jarse said:

Once the unemployed have finished posting on side one, you get to real knowledge further on.
Ginetta under LT always deliver on producing stuff they say they will.

Oh dear, do you have have to work?

Ginetta has attempted road cars before, and none have sold. Great if they produce something interesting, but sadly as so many small manufacturers have found to their cost, it's very difficult to break into supercar market. Even wealthy people baulk at buying cars that are underdeveloped however fast and light they may be. So a bit of mild trolling aside on your part, I'd say most of the comments on this thread be they on p1 or p4 are legitimate. You don't need to be a Ginetta expert to have an opinion after all.....

[dinkel]

GTEYE said:

File next to TVR in the “will believe it when it actually arrives on the road” category.

Until then, move on, nothing new to see here.

Agreed...

[housen]

dinkel said:

GTEYE said:

File next to TVR in the “will believe it when it actually arrives on the road” category.

Until then, move on, nothing new to see here.

Agreed...

yup

[Mr Overheads]

fblm said:

Mr Overheads said:

I repeat I’ve seen the car, that’s a photo in the story above not a render.

Does it have the profile of the second pic? That looks viper sexy to me.

No idea, they had set it up so you could only see the car at the angle photographed above.

[Tired]

RumbleOfThunder said:

Tired said:

Do Ginetta have a wind tunnel?

If not, do they use someone else's?

Why do they need a wind tunnel?

I only asked if they had one. They've been building race cars for years, I wondered if they used their own to validate their analysis, or if they used someone elses.

[Lewis Kingston]

Troubleatmill said:

Why develop your own engine? - just buy a crate LS or LT - and build your car around it.

I mentioned this on Twitter as it piqued my curiosity – I had a nose around and, unsurprisingly, it appears to be an LS. Sure, it's billet and seemingly produced at Ginetta on a Haas CNC machine – but it's an LS.

This 'in-house' engine was used in the 2018 G58 prototype racer. Superseded... an LS3.

You can get billet heads and a billet block off the shelf, which could be a less costly option, but Ginetta has presumably tweaked the design to suit its particular application.

Edited by Lewis Kingston on Thursday 31st January 09:12

[housen]

Big news. Ginetta has confirmed that it will launch an all-new supercar later this year

ought to serve as a rival for lightweight supercars such as the McLaren 600LT and Porsche 911 GT3 RS, although it'll use a more traditional front-mid engine layout.



LOLZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

Edited by housen on Thursday 31st January 13:05

[Frimley111R]

Jimbo89 said:

Wow PH's. A manufacturer can't even announce a new supercar without getting slated on here? I'm struggling to understand the hate.

No-one hates this but so many of us have seen so many tiny manufacturers or start up ones claiming they are building some great new supercar only for it either never to appear or to look like they ran out money halfway through development. it just becomes the automotive equivalent of the boy who cried wolf. Ginetta have minimal experience of building a high quality road car and this will have to be as good as if not better than perfect to be competitive. Making race cars is still a world away from making road cars.

[Macboy]

Frimley111R said:

No-one hates this but so many of us have seen so many tiny manufacturers or start up ones claiming they are building some great new supercar only for it either never to appear or to look like they ran out money halfway through development. it just becomes the automotive equivalent of the boy who cried wolf. Ginetta have minimal experience of building a high quality road car and this will have to be as good as if not better than perfect to be competitive. Making race cars is still a world away from making road cars.

Nail on head here. It'd be great to think they are going to spend the time and money and have the engineering expertise to make a credible competitive road car. But the "road" spec. cars I've seen from Ginetta are woeful quality and totally unacceptable to most buyers. As people have commented they have nothing like the budget of McL and even they have had some serious and well-known quality issues (especially on the 12c - their first attempt). Love to see it succeed. Imagine it won't.

[MX6]

I'm familar with older Ginetta models but I didn't realise that they are still a going concern. As a British manufacturer I'll be especially interested to see what they come up with, if this car does indeed come to fruition.

I like curvy looks of some past Ginetta's, the swoopy silhouette image shown looks in a similar vein so promising. Not sure about the image showing the front end though, looks like some overly fussy angles and shapes going on there. I like the fact it's going to be NA, manual and RWD.

[anonymous-user]

The reason small manufacturers regularly announce "supercars" is that those are the only models that support a valid business case (and even then it's often v/flaky)

There is simply no way to make a sub £100k car work. With a supercar, you can just stick another £100k on the price when it becomes obvious you have overspent and the customer, who's already paying lets say £1M wont' even blink

Take a look at MALs (Mclaren Automotive Limited) 2016 financials:

Revenue: £450.6M
Operating profit: £23.5M
R&D Spend: £123.9M
Sales: 1,654 vehicles


That R&D spend is by the way £339,452 for every day of the year to put it in perspective ( or £489,723 per working day in 2016, ie nearly half a million quid per day in R&D) it's also a total of £74,909 per car sold! This is why MAL now make some of the finest sports cars on the planet.......


You'd have to be completely certifiable to in any way compare a car built by Ginetta to a car built by MAL, how ever fast it around a track......

Edited by anonymous-user on Thursday 31st January 12:01

[housen]

Max_Torque said:

The reason small manufacturers regularly announce "supercars" is that those are the only models that support a valid business case (and even then it's often v/flaky)

There is simply no way to make a sub £100k car work. With a supercar, you can just stick another £100k on the price when it becomes obvious you have overspent and the customer, who's already paying lets say £1M wont' even blink

Take a look at MALs 2016 financials:

Revenue: £450.6M
Operating profit: £23.5M
R&D Spend: £123.9M
Sales: 1,654 vehicles


You'd have to be completely certifiable to in any way compare a car built by Ginetta to a car built by MAL, how ever fast it around a track......

sorry who is MAL ?

[anonymous-user]

housen said:

sorry who is MAL ?

Post above edited to include that info now!

[Maldini35]

The Crack Fox said:

Macboy said:

Frimley111R said:

Ginetta have minimal experience of building a high quality road car and this will have to be as good as if not better than perfect to be competitive. Making race cars is still a world away from making road cars.

the "road" spec. cars I've seen from Ginetta are woeful quality and totally unacceptable to most buyers.

Ginetta looks very much like a hobby business for Lawrence Tomlinson. The "factory", looking on google, is small factory unit round the back of the business that makes him money (running care homes). LNT Group turnover seems to be about £100 million, their profit of £400k isn't that much, though, is it? Still richer than the most powerfully built red-bull can chucker, but you need megabucks to make roadcars.

I simply don't understand why they don't make quick road cars from their racers. I love the overall lines of this, below, and appreciate it was built for racing but it looks kit-car-shonky to me. Why not put your money into that and flog to halfwits like me? If they can't get that on the road, a car for a bigger market, with most work already done, what hopes do they have they of swizzing some Arab playboy into parting with supercar money?



To echo previous sentiments, I would flippin' love this to succeed, but it's impossible to see this as anything but a hobby business for a rich, gentleman racer who has unrealistic expectations of the market for hand-built, British sportscars.

ETA - Re-reading my post it's doom and gloom, I would love to be proved wrong.

See also; TVR.

Edited by The Crack Fox on Thursday 31st January 11:40

My thoughts exactly.
Ginetta is a great little brand who I really want to do well, but they have a fair bit of 'previous' when it comes to the quality of their product.
A mate raced for a season in a factory G55 and I don't think he ever finished a race due to a plethora of mechanical maladies.
I went to watch him at Brands and he never even got to sit in the car as it broke down during the first stint with the factory driver.
It was quick mind - I think it started on pole!
That's the frustration for me. Fundamentally good, quick cars, just not developed enough to rely on.
Not sure I can see this particular project succeeding but I hope to be proved wrong.
A strong Ginetta would be good for the automotive world. The more competition the big boys have the better cars we'll all get as a result.