RE: Ford Focus ST170: Spotted

[mike150]

Jon_S_Rally said:

I always struggle to get my head around the hate for these really. No, it's not as good as an RS, but why would it be? Ford weren't going to make two models of the same car that were in direct competition with each other, were they? It's not as wild as a Focus RS, but it's not supposed to be, so why bother making the comparison? It's basically just like an XR3i to an RS Turbo - a more junior performance model.

I do have to giggle when people say "Oh but you have to thrash the engine to make it go". So that's a bad thing in a Focus but, if it had a Honda badge on its rump, people would be tugging themselves silly over having to rev the cock off it to make it move. Well that makes sense...

Is it the greatest hot hatch ever? Nope, but it's a Focus (which is a blinkin' brilliant car), with a bit more power, better brakes and better handling. If you get one with a few options (Recaro seats especially), it's probably not a bad car at all. I think I'd probably take one over an EP3 Type-R in many ways. Yes the Honda is faster but, as a daily, the empty bean tin feel of it would wear pretty thin after a while I think.

Over £4k is silly money but, for shed money, you could do a lot worse.

If you read my large experience of Foci above a 115hp TDCI was the best driving of all, twice the mpg of the ST, a lot more torque, better suspension and almost as fast.

You would be nuts to want one over an EP3 Type R!!!!!!

[IanCress]

mike150 said:

You would be nuts to want one over an EP3 Type R!!!!!!

I don't see the ST170 and Type-R as direct rivals. The Type-R is an out and out hot hatch. Performance wise it's on a par with the RS.
If you see the ST170 as more of a warm hatch, with more comfort and equipment than the Type-R then it makes more sense.

[DBSnappa]

Salmonofdoubt said:

For me it wasn’t the gearbox that killed it, yes it blunted acceleration but on a few of my favourite roads I could get away with 3rd and 4th only.

The total lack of fuel economy when plodding along or using the car in town was what made me move it on. Not sure if mine was broken (I bought it new) but a friends RS used far less petrol.

Yeah, the around town MPG barely gets above 20 in mine. My other car is a M140 and that has much better MPG in all uses, besides a few other attributes

[otolith]

IanCress said:

don't see the ST170 and Type-R as direct rivals. The Type-R is an out and out hot hatch. Performance wise it's on a par with the RS.
If you see the ST170 as more of a warm hatch, with more comfort and equipment than the Type-R then it makes more sense.

But when they were new, they both cost about 16k. You can see why the Type-R sold better.

[tedman]

Wasn't the engine the same as the Mazda 3 2.0 Sport 150? Albeit, slightly better tuned?

[martin12345]

Save your money and buy one of these

1.8l petrol 3 door Zetec
Nicest chassis, best body for stiffness, nicest of the Zetec engines (balance of torque, power, noise & smoothness)
Invest some of your savings in decent tyres and ensuring the dampers are still in good nick

In the real world just about as fast and a huge pleasure to thrash whilst remaining within speed limits and responsible behaviour
The 1.8l engines were consistently a little more powerful than claimed, the 2.0l were consistently a little worse so the real gap in performance is smaller than the already small gap in claimed performance. ST170 was the worst for not delivering the power it was claimed to have.

I also worked at Ford at the time and drove/owned just about every Focus of this generation and for driving pleasure this is the sweet spot of the range. If you have people to carry regularly then get the 5 door equivalent - slight loss in handing/steering feel from the less stiff body but still lovely

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...

[dukebox9reg]

I've read in quite a few other forums etc, along with the Celica 190 these never make their power.

[martin12345]

PS - not my car and I know nothing about it or the seller - just an example of what I would buy at 20% of the price

[aaron_2000]

soad said:

aaron_2000

Don't worry, I wouldn't miss an ST170 discussion

I love mine, I loved my grey one too. They've been £400 for a poor one and £1500 for the best for a long while now, only in the last 4 months have I watched dealers try and push the prices up, seems to be working too. I think when they were new they were overpriced for what they were, who'd really go for the Focus for £16k when you could have the Leon 210, EP3 Type R and Clio 172 for the same or less? Although they rarely sold for close to that. Mine was just over £10k as a demo car with about 2k on the clock, odd as it's an absolute base spec car. My parents had it 2 years and 20k, in that time the suspension would bottom out on anything, ruining the handling and ride. It would refuse to rev over 4k after a year or so, Ford never managed to fix it. The wheels corroded etc. As a new car it's easy to see why they weren't rated so highly. As a used car, I can't rate them high enough. I paid about £500 for my grey one and £550 for the silver. I can't think of any cars I could run that would handle as well, be as quick and still feel well put together inside for the money other than the ST170. The issue now is that they're all at the mileage where they need clutches. A £500 job at best, so all the once cheap ones are either being broken or having money put into them. My silver car is the latter. It's not surprising to see the prices going up, as the bad cars are disappearing quickly. £4k is overpriced for the moment, in a year or so probably not. As a collector you can find a lower mileage example for similar money, and as an enthusiast, you can get a much better one to daily for half that. I like the gearbox, it's always fun to get upto 72 in 2nd and 32 in 1st. If I was looking for another, I'd go for a higher mileage car so I'd know the clutch and DMF had been done, I'd also want to know the sills had been done too. That's the current issue keeping mine on the drive. I do think they're unfairly berated now, they're not £16k anymore, they're much cheaper than the EP3 and the Leon, they also handle better than the Leon and I'd argue better than the EP3 too. Steering is just about as good as a 205 GTI IMO, horrific turning circle though. I'll own a few more while they're cheap. If I was a collector, I'd be looking for an Imp blue estate with the Custom Pack and Comfort Pack.

My silver car (owned by parents for 2 years, owned by me from 2017 onwards)


My old grey one


My old thread on the ST170, I'll likely make a new one at some point when I get back into mine.
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...

[Ocsltd]

Always had a bit of a soft spot for these, particularly in blue or grey. However, I'd have a 1.7i Puma over one of these all day long....

[aaron_2000]

It is true that they pretty much never made 170hp, I don't have the nerve to dyno mine. I will do a before and after when I fit the new exhaust, headers, sports cat, K&N filter and remap though. Ideally should see around 182bhp from it then and a change in the torque and power curve to get rid of the flat spot. As people have said, it's just a modern day XR3i. Under the RS, was eventually bought for nothing used, ragged and crashed into small numbers, then they started going up in value. They don't deserve the hate they get anymore.

Edited by aaron_2000 on Thursday 31st January 12:51

[The-Wanderer]

I ran quite a few of these as demonstrators when I worked for a Ford dealer, usually 3 doors with full Recaro leather and sub woofer etc. I loved them, they looked good, handled well, and went well as long as you revved them. I don't remember them bottoming out everywhere, and I did make good progress in them.

As somebody else said, if it was a Honda VTEC, people would be creaming themselves about the engine. And I've had two S2000's so I know an engine that needs to be revved to get anywhere...

We did have customers complain that they weren't fast enough, wouldn't accelerate etc, to the point where the dealer principal asked me if that was how mine felt. I took him out in mine and showed him what it was like if you just drove it to 5k RPM and then drove it properly to 7k+. He then agreed there was nothing wrong with them and was happy to go back to customers and say so.

Still wouldn't pay £4.5k for one now though.

[aaron_2000]

Think it was an issue with ours, wouldn't rev past a certain point and used to crash about badly. Neither of those is an issue with it now, although the suspension on mine does still crash about, although it doesn't bottom out on every bump like I remember it doing. Much better cars for £4500, and this isn't a good enough example for a collection.

[Jon_S_Rally]

mike150 said:

If you read my large experience of Foci above a 115hp TDCI was the best driving of all, twice the mpg of the ST, a lot more torque, better suspension and almost as fast.

You would be nuts to want one over an EP3 Type R!!!!!!

All down to personal preference though, surely? Yes, I would agree that you could probably make similar progress in the diesel, but it's about much more than that to me. It doesn't matter how quick it is, driving a car with the engine from a Transit Connect is not going to bring me much in the way of pleasure over a revvy 2.0-litre petrol, even if it isn't the best ever.

You may think that but, in my experience of the EP3, it's just not a very nice car to live with, so I would take the Focus over it as a daily all day long. An ST170, especially one with the Recaro seats etc is a much nicer daily proposition. Maybe it would be different if it was for track use, but then I would take a Clio 172/182 over both of them for that purpose. In fact, 197s are now coming down in price rapidly, so I'd probably take one of those.

DBSnappa said:

Yeah, the around town MPG barely gets above 20 in mine. My other car is a M140 and that has much better MPG in all uses, besides a few other attributes

Not sure a car that's 15 years newer is really a great comparison. That's nothing more than you'd expect for progress.

[otolith]

The-Wanderer said:

As somebody else said, if it was a Honda VTEC, people would be creaming themselves about the engine. And I've had two S2000's so I know an engine that needs to be revved to get anywhere...

I think there's a difference between an engine that needs to be revved to get anywhere (e.g. the MX-5 1.8) and one where the joy of the thing is in doing so.

In any case, the Focus doesn't particularly demand or support high revs. It's actually got a similar power curve up to the point where it runs out of puff.

[M3_Simon_Fr]

4 grand for "this" ?? Is this a joke ?

[aaron_2000]

otolith said:

The-Wanderer said:

As somebody else said, if it was a Honda VTEC, people would be creaming themselves about the engine. And I've had two S2000's so I know an engine that needs to be revved to get anywhere...

I think there's a difference between an engine that needs to be revved to get anywhere (e.g. the MX-5 1.8) and one where the joy of the thing is in doing so.

In any case, the Focus doesn't particularly demand or support high revs. It's actually got a similar power curve up to the point where it runs out of puff.

A remap gets rid of that flat spot. I find my 170 to be plenty quick, I also find it to be a great engine to rev out. The EP3 I found to be pretty much useless until the VTEC kicked in. The Civic didn't feel much quicker to drive, although as a passenger it was noticeably quicker. I don't understand the hype for the EP3, I also don't understand the hate for the Focus. I wouldn't spend £2k on an ST170, but at the same time I wouldn't spend £2k on an EP3 either. The Focus is miles better steering wise, handles better IMO, is miles better to live with and costs fractions of the price. They both have bad seating positions, the seats are more supportive in the Civic, the gearshift is better than most cars in the Civic (I do like the box in the ST aswell though), brakes felt better in the Focus, the Civic was a quicker car, although up to VTEC it just felt gutless, I'd reckon after driving mine back to back that the Focus was probably quicker up to around 5k. If they were both £1500, I would absolutely pick the Focus. I hated a lot about the Civic and liked a few things, with the Focus I like a lot about it and dislike a few things. At £4k I'd take a Leon 225 over both of them though.

[andy97]

Deep Thought said:

andy97 said:

These don't seem to have much love, and I am sure that they are not best of the breed, or even best of the "warm hatch backs", but they are cheap to buy (the one here seems very optimistically priced), cheap to run, have a good chassis and every scrap yard in the country will probably have Focus parts available if needed.

For £1-2k, I would have thought that they would be a good very used buy.

Thats wholly my view on them. They werent rated great at the time, but they're now getting pulled up a bit with the whole Ford "performance" interest. Quite a few clean, rust free examples still around for as you say £1-2K. I think the asking price on this one is optimistic.

For Shed (ish) money I would probably be happy with one of these. But for £3k plus (cheaper than this advert featured here) you can get something like this:

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...

This was just a random selection and may not be the bestvexample but Surely a better option?

[japgt]

just dont try getting hold of an inlet manifold runner control or full assembly as they are rare as hens teeth

mate has a 200K car and the inlet manifold has collapsed and he cant find the part for love nor money

[j4r4lly]

martin12345 said:

Save your money and buy one of these

1.8l petrol 3 door Zetec
Nicest chassis, best body for stiffness, nicest of the Zetec engines (balance of torque, power, noise & smoothness)
Invest some of your savings in decent tyres and ensuring the dampers are still in good nick

In the real world just about as fast and a huge pleasure to thrash whilst remaining within speed limits and responsible behaviour
The 1.8l engines were consistently a little more powerful than claimed, the 2.0l were consistently a little worse so the real gap in performance is smaller than the already small gap in claimed performance. ST170 was the worst for not delivering the power it was claimed to have.

I also worked at Ford at the time and drove/owned just about every Focus of this generation and for driving pleasure this is the sweet spot of the range. If you have people to carry regularly then get the 5 door equivalent - slight loss in handing/steering feel from the less stiff body but still lovely

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...

I’ve also had a good selection of Mk1 Focus which includes a 1.8 TDCi 5-door Ghia, ST170 5-door & 1.8 Zetec 5-door. All were excellent cars but overall the 1.8 Zetec was the best. It was quite simply the best all round car I’ve ever owned. The ride and handling, braking, controls and build quality were superb. At the time I owned it I was doing a regular 90 mile round trip to work which was mostly fast A roads and some motorway. It inspired so much confidence and even in the wet I hardly had to make any allowances. Economy was also good at around 35-40 mpg even when making progress. I really loved that car. Eventually in around 2002 I went along to a BMW Dealer to test drive a used E36 328i Sport Coupe. It was a 1 owner low mileage car and something I’d always wanted. Having driven it and returned to the showroom I remember being decidedly unimpressed with it compared to the Focus. Sure, the 328i was full of leather, had tons more power and that lovely smooth straight six motor, but overall it felt like a car from an earlier era (the Focus Mk1 arrived in 1998 and was a massive leap forward from the Escort) and the ride and handling didn’t match the Focus. It really was that good.

The TDCi was also great and felt quicker than either the ST170 or the 1.8 Zetec……….. until you started really pushing on and then it ran out of puff pretty quickly. Drive it at 7-8/10ths and it was excellent.

The ST170 was indeed a little odd. I never had any issues with it bottoming out and the ride comfort was firm but compliant. Gearbox was so, so in terms of shift and the gearing was far too long. The seats and interior were very nice and I could do big journeys in comfort. On the right road if you used all the revs is sounded fabulous and the grip and handling were a revelation. EVO magazine used to do a tyre test to find the best brand and one year used an ST 170 as the base car. Best overall performance was on a Goodyear Eagle GSD-3 I recall. So, when the Continentals needed changing I had Goodyears fitted to the ST170. In the wet it was pretty good, but in the dry it was astonishing and could really make progress. Downside was new front tyres needed after less than 6K miles. These are now excellent value if you can find one that’s been looked after and they are sure to climb steadily as their number thin out further. An underrated car for sure.