Would you still go Diesel...

[FoxtrotOscar1]

Diesels suit idiots like me that can't help with lead footedness.

Ive a A4 Avant 2.0tdi - gives me approx 600miles to a tank. I also have a Golf Gti - gives me 300ish miles to a tank .


Poor or not. I dont enjoy spending money on fuel, nor do i enjoy standing filling the tank.

[V88Dicky]

diesel piston said:

Diesel diesel, I love £30 road tax and up to 60 mpg

Make sure you keep buying pre-April 17 cars then, otherwise you'll be disappointed.....

[CornishRob]

Dog Star said:

WJNB said:

Certainly. On the sole occasion my employer insisted that I could only specify a diesel the moment I got it home the D badge was binned.
Top of the range model maybe but Oh the shame & the dam noise disturbing my neighbours at 6am. Felt like a pimply junior sales rep. not a senior manager.

Jesus! The cringe!

What sort of diesel can wake your neighbours at 6am? Or do they live in a tent?

The 3.0l twin turbo V6 in my disco is probably no louder than the 1.5 petrol in my wife’s Volvo!

[AC43]

CornishRob said:

Dog Star said:

WJNB said:

Certainly. On the sole occasion my employer insisted that I could only specify a diesel the moment I got it home the D badge was binned.
Top of the range model maybe but Oh the shame & the dam noise disturbing my neighbours at 6am. Felt like a pimply junior sales rep. not a senior manager.

Jesus! The cringe!

What sort of diesel can wake your neighbours at 6am? Or do they live in a tent?

The 3.0l twin turbo V6 in my disco is probably no louder than the 1.5 petrol in my wife’s Volvo!

My neighbours 68 plate XC90 sounds like a shagged transit when she fires it up. Grim.

Anyway, to answer the OP I've no plan to go diesel as I live in London Zone 2 and do low miles in both cars so they are both petrol.

[aeropilot]

CornishRob said:

Dog Star said:

WJNB said:

Certainly. On the sole occasion my employer insisted that I could only specify a diesel the moment I got it home the D badge was binned.
Top of the range model maybe but Oh the shame & the dam noise disturbing my neighbours at 6am. Felt like a pimply junior sales rep. not a senior manager.

Jesus! The cringe!

What sort of diesel can wake your neighbours at 6am? Or do they live in a tent?

The 3.0l twin turbo V6 in my disco is probably no louder than the 1.5 petrol in my wife’s Volvo!

Quite.
In fact my old neighbours were thankful that I bought a diesel, as my 6.30am departures for work in the new X5 were silent in comparison to my previous 135i with its BMW Peformance exhaust that was somewhat loud on cold start at 6.30am

[Jaguar steve]

diesel piston said:

Diesel diesel, I love £30 road tax and up to 60 mpg

Me too.

Everyday I have the choice of taking either a V8 petrol that averages around 26MPG or a turbo diesel that easily betters 65 when I go out.

Last year the choice resulted in the V8 doing around 2k miles in total and the dirty diesel doing over 20k in the same period.

[Artsy]

I changed our car in February from a Honda CRV 2.2 diesel auto to a BMW X3 35D.

However I've leased this time as I don't know what London is going to do with diesels and cars in general and didn't want to be stuck with a car I can't get rid of. In addition the car is used which means I didn't want a car getting old on me and out of warranty.

My main annoyance was the state of the used SUV market. There were no petrol SUVs that were of interest. ML63 or similar were out of the question and I didn't really want anything like a 2l petrol SUV without a turbo. It would be good to see manufacturers making SUVs with petrol engines that actually have some pulling power. I've always thought that Honda could stick their 2l Type R engine into the CRV detuned to about 250bhp and that would probably make quite an interesting choice.

For the record, I do nowhere near the mileage regarded as acceptable for a diesel...

Edited by Artsy on Monday 29th June 13:55

[A.J.M]

Had diesels for 12 years now.

Happy with them and will be getting more in the future.

Cheap diesel runabout for a few years till the 3.0 6 cylinder new Defender comes out and is a couple of years old.

Cheaper tax, better in gear performance and high 50-60s to gallon.

Also can’t say anyone has ever cared what fuel powers the engine under the bonnet. The neighbours don’t care, my family don’t care and my friends don’t.

[J4CKO]

greenarrow said:

I think a large diesel 100% makes sense in a larger car. Something like a 530d is still very hard to beat as an all-rounder. However, as someone who buys older cars and does low mileage now, I probably wouldn't buy another diesel. Not sure what my next car will be, but there are plenty of petrols available now that will cost you £30 VED a year and do 45-50 MPG in the real world and I'll probably settle for one of those until the infrastructure supporting EVs reaches the point where ease of ownership is comparable to that of ICE cars.

Oh and I don't think anti diesel sentiment is limited to Pistonheads. Chatting to 2 non petrolhead type people recently, both have told me they're not buying another diesel when they change in light of what they see as an incoming clampdown on diesels.

I dont think the car buying public are anti diesel, they are anti getting taxed punitively/legislated against and anti getting lumbered with something they might not be able to sell for a decent price down the line.

Some may not be now doing the mileage they did as they could end up working from home more.

Some may have been bitten by the DPF and other issues and realised that 50 mpg is all very well but if you only do 7000 a year and it breaks costing you £1500 isnt not exactly a big saving.

Also, with some stuff, cant actually buy a diesel any more, no Audi A1 diesel any more for example.

[Deep Thought]

J4CKO said:

I dont think the car buying public are anti diesel, they are anti getting taxed punitively/legislated against and anti getting lumbered with something they might not be able to sell for a decent price down the line.

Some may not be now doing the mileage they did as they could end up working from home more.

Some may have been bitten by the DPF and other issues and realised that 50 mpg is all very well but if you only do 7000 a year and it breaks costing you £1500 isnt not exactly a big saving.

Also, with some stuff, cant actually buy a diesel any more, no Audi A1 diesel any more for example.

Thats exactly my view - and experience.

Last diesel car i actively went out and bought was a new model Passat 1.6TDI. Bought at a year old with 16K miles from VW, needed a full DPF system within 2 months of me buying it. The car was in three times before they eventually replaced it all. VW covered it under warranty (would have cost around £2,200 to have it done with VW otherwise) but had it happened again it was going to be my problem to sort out.

Sod that. I dont want that hanging over my head with a diesel car.

I'd have to be doing very big miles now to even think about a diesel and if i could i'd probably go hybrid rather than diesel.

[DiamondLights]

Artsy said:

I changed our car in February from a Honda CRV 2.2 diesel auto to a BMW X3 35D.

However I've leased this time as I don't know what London is going to do with diesels and cars in general and didn't want to be stuck with a car I can't get rid of. In addition the car is used which means I didn't want a car getting old on me and out of warranty.

My main annoyance was the state of the used SUV market. There were no petrol SUVs that were of interest. ML63 or similar were out of the question and I didn't really want anything like a 2l petrol SUV without a turbo. It would be good to see manufacturers making SUVs with petrol engines that actually have some pulling power. I've always thought that Honda could stick their 2l Type R engine into the CRV detuned to about 250bhp and that would probably make quite an interesting choice.

For the record, I do nowhere near the mileage regarded as acceptable for a diesel...

Edited by Artsy on Monday 29th June 13:55

Sounds like we're in a similar boat, i'm going Used but buying an X5 (7 seat option).

I don't do massive mileage but the X5 available in 40i Petrol, hence why I re-loaded this thread up. I like the X5, have Diesel or Petrol options and both are decent, except Petrol is obviously way thirstier for an SUV than Diesel. However, concerned with the Diesel demonisation so thinking Petrol may be better?

[Majorslow]

J4CKO said:

I dont think the car buying public are anti diesel, they are anti getting taxed punitively/legislated against and anti getting lumbered with something they might not be able to sell for a decent price down the line.

Some may not be now doing the mileage they did as they could end up working from home more.

Some may have been bitten by the DPF and other issues and realised that 50 mpg is all very well but if you only do 7000 a year and it breaks costing you £1500 isnt not exactly a big saving.

Also, with some stuff, cant actually buy a diesel any more, no Audi A1 diesel any more for example.

Couldn't agree more, my father bought a golf diesel, and covered about 4k miles a year, and couldn't understand why it didn't run well, and dpf problems, he wouldn't listen to fact that the car was not the correct car for his needs.

I do about 30-35k in my diesel a year, £0.00 road tax, returns anything form 52-74 mpg (depending on how it is driven), god knows what other people are driving, unless you put the gas pedal into the carpet you can't hear it, especially with the radio on......oh sorry when it is really cold (about 4 times this last winter) you hear it on starting when cold..... what a fuss about nothing

I thought PH'ers liked listening to engines?

I have had a diesel V70 from 1999 as well, massive 2.5 lump in it, when the wife goes to work, the way she drives the neighbours hear it for about 6 seconds.....but at +40-45 mpg far cheaper to run than a petrol car of that age

No doubt diesel and petrol cars are going to be phased out....but then when is the "Outrage" on electric cars going to start with the disposal of millions of batteries?......and the slave labour used to mine all the "stuff" that make them up?

Only the rich, city living folk with great public transport systems, living close to work fuss about ice cars and pollution, the rest of us "silent" majority tend to just get on with it

If that twit Khan in London wanted to make a difference to air quality, maybe he should tax heavily large suv type cars from London where when I go there non look like they have been more challenged than driving up kerbs. The fuel economy on them in stop/start traffic must be terrible, not those tradesmen using vans that earn a living, paying taxes that need them there.

[Evanivitch]

Majorslow said:

No doubt diesel and petrol cars are going to be phased out....but then when is the "Outrage" on electric cars going to start with the disposal of millions of batteries?......and the slave labour used to mine all the "stuff" that make them up?

You mean the batteries that are outlasting their 8yr warranty and then being reused for grid and domestic storage?

Majorslow said:

Only the rich, city living folk with great public transport systems, living close to work fuss about ice cars and pollution, the rest of us "silent" majority tend to just get on with it

Given that every major city in the UK, and areas like Hafoddrynys have significant pollution issues, it's BS to say only rich city Falk care. It's usually the poorest areas worst hit by pollution, not the leafy suburbs.

[Artsy]

DiamondLights said:

Sounds like we're in a similar boat, i'm going Used but buying an X5 (7 seat option).

I don't do massive mileage but the X5 available in 40i Petrol, hence why I re-loaded this thread up. I like the X5, have Diesel or Petrol options and both are decent, except Petrol is obviously way thirstier for an SUV than Diesel. However, concerned with the Diesel demonisation so thinking Petrol may be better?

The thing is for me the MPG wasn't a concern. But what was a concern was the fact that the 40i was a hell of a lot more expensive than the 35D. For the record the car is on a 64 plate.

My plan is to keep it for 30 months only to ride out the anti-diesel and changes in legislation (London has already extended the congestion charge so I've already lost out there but at least I'm still Euro 6 compliant).

Once the lease is up I'll see what the story is with restrictions, congestion, etc (hopefully I will have left London) and then decide on the next vehicle. But I definitely didn't want to be left with a diesel that I own outright in the current climate.

[gizlaroc]

NewUsername said:

I do around 30k miles a year (i have a feeling that will be changing) and I have a young family. I will almost certainly get a big diesel estate (again) something like a E350d or 530d

Plenty of space for stuff in the boot, effortless on the motorway ( and most other places), not stopping to fill up every 3 days.

As much as they sound a bit agricultural at idle outside the car there is something highly satisfactory about the torque of a big 3 litre diesel engine mated to a good torque converter in a big saloon/estate for everyday navigation of the commute or one off long trips abroad.

I had the E350d estate for a year and 25k miles and then had the E350 petrol.

The E350 petrol was amazing, I kept it nearly 3 years, and put 80,000 miles on it.

The E350d averaged 34mpg over that time, OBC said 39mpg, but calculated was 34mpg.

The E350 averaged 31mpg over that time, OBC said 31 and it was spot on.


The refinement on the E350 made it feel properly special, plus it was really smooth and quiet up to 3000rpm, but then from 3000-7000rpm it came alive and sounded great.
306hp meant it felt quick too, the E350d did as well, but not in the same league as the petrol.

The 530d F11 though I would still take over the E350, a better package all round, more comfy, more dynamic, better infotainment, much nicer seating position, just a better car.

Plus doing 30000 miles a year you will get a proper 40mpg plus average.

[rallycross]

DiamondLights said:

Sounds like we're in a similar boat, i'm going Used but buying an X5 (7 seat option).

I don't do massive mileage but the X5 available in 40i Petrol, hence why I re-loaded this thread up. I like the X5, have Diesel or Petrol options and both are decent, except Petrol is obviously way thirstier for an SUV than Diesel. However, concerned with the Diesel demonisation so thinking Petrol may be better?

If you are looking at older large car like SUV diesel is the only sensible option still but I think it also depends where you love where you are driving as you could get clobbered with diesel tax in some cities.

[aeropilot]

DiamondLights said:

I don't do massive mileage but the X5 available in 40i Petrol, hence why I re-loaded this thread up. I like the X5, have Diesel or Petrol options and both are decent, except Petrol is obviously way thirstier for an SUV than Diesel. However, concerned with the Diesel demonisation so thinking Petrol may be better?

I'd be more concerned about picking the right engine option for your journey profile, rather than worrying about any perceived demonsiation of diesel.

Your journey profile doesn't suit a diesel, so as long as you can afford the extra cost of the fuel for the 40i, its probably your better option.
However, if you want the 7-seat option, then that is going to be your priority in finding a suitable X5. It maybe that many 40i buyers were not 7-seat option buyers, and there maybe more 30d 7-seat specced X5's around?

[Speed1283]

Monkeylegend said:

The problem is trying to find a decent petrol car when probably 90% plus of the cars you want are diesel, and they are not renowned for the excellence of their petrol engines which will cost you a few thousand more than the equivalent diesel as well.

That's assuming you are buying second hand, slightly older cars.

There are some good diesel bargains around at the moment and they are likely to get cheaper as the tide against them grows, and if you are not inclined to drive into the big cities and get hammered for emission charges, then they still make sense.

Well they do to me anyway.

This.

When I first started looking at 6 series in late 2018 I could not find a petrol version which had the right blend of specs, mileage, age and of course price. There were a few 'standard' 640i models but they were few and far between, the 650i which would have been lovely are even rarer and commanded a hefty premium.

85% seemed to be 640ds, more choice, generally higher specs, better pricing as a result. I drove both versions and honestly the 640d was better for 90% of the time than the 640i, it was only really during idle and hard acceleration that the petrol vocals made it's case, I suspect a remapped 640i with a decent exhaust would have been compelling but at the time I was doing 18000 a year, so then there is the economy point and the fact that on a long trip the diesel can do 700+ on a tank.

For the Ops driving profile I'd say petrol, if the op had regular motorway trips then diesel but definitely get a EU6 diesel as I imagine it will hold its value better as more cities introduce emission charges.

[Monkeylegend]

Speed1283 said:

Monkeylegend said:

The problem is trying to find a decent petrol car when probably 90% plus of the cars you want are diesel, and they are not renowned for the excellence of their petrol engines which will cost you a few thousand more than the equivalent diesel as well.

That's assuming you are buying second hand, slightly older cars.

There are some good diesel bargains around at the moment and they are likely to get cheaper as the tide against them grows, and if you are not inclined to drive into the big cities and get hammered for emission charges, then they still make sense.

Well they do to me anyway.

This.

When I first started looking at 6 series in late 2018 I could not find a petrol version which had the right blend of specs, mileage, age and of course price. There were a few 'standard' 640i models but they were few and far between, the 650i which would have been lovely are even rarer and commanded a hefty premium.

85% seemed to be 640ds, more choice, generally higher specs, better pricing as a result. I drove both versions and honestly the 640d was better for 90% of the time than the 640i, it was only really during idle and hard acceleration that the petrol vocals made it's case, I suspect a remapped 640i with a decent exhaust would have been compelling but at the time I was doing 18000 a year, so then there is the economy point and the fact that on a long trip the diesel can do 700+ on a tank.

For the Ops driving profile I'd say petrol, if the op had regular motorway trips then diesel but definitely get a EU6 diesel as I imagine it will hold its value better as more cities introduce emission charges.

Mercedes are even worse than BMW in terms of desirable petrol engines, apart from their V8's of course.

I would love an E350/400 petrol but there are well documented issues with these Mercedes engines, and the E400's come with bone jarring 19 inch wheels that crack everytime you drive over a pothole, so that leaves the diesels as the better option, and a whole lot better value for money if you want to own long term.

[thebraketester]

No. We will never ever buy a diesel car. It will be petrol or batteries for us.