Would you still go Diesel...

[vikingaero]

Lot of kneejerk reactions to diesel. You could do 6k per annum but that could be 80% towing in which case a diesel with torque is much better,

[aeropilot]

vikingaero said:

Lot of kneejerk reactions to diesel.

But that's always the way, especially when you are dealing with a largely ignorant public and largely ignorant politicians that incentivised use of a fuel to suit its own warped purposes.

[Evanivitch]

C7 JFW said:

Evanivitch said:

C7 JFW said:

Diesel only seems worthwhile if:

- 20k miles per annum (or more)

Which is still only an 85 mile round trip commute. Well within the realms of EVs on sale today. Even a PHEV with charging both ends (like my employer provides) will cover that in many cases mostly on Electric.

It might be, but two things:
- Why would I waste my time searching for chargers after attending a client site when I don't have to
- I'm trying to think of an appealing electric car that's £30k and considered a 'drivers' car.

Who's talking about clients? I'm saying a regular, planned commute of 20,000 pa is easily done on a EV or PHEV electric.

I couldn't tell you a driver's car I would happily do 20,000 miles a year in. Which is why I have a daily and a driver's car.

[Triumph Man]

DiamondLights said:

The fact is, Diesel IS being demonised (i'm not saying Petrol is better or blah blah blah).

How on earth can it be sensible to charge more money to park a Diesel in a car park than a Petrol? Regardless of car size, regardless of age. Nonsensical.

Welcome to the future.

If it's parked it's not polluting

[Triumph Man]

I'm torn for my next car. On the one hand I drive a 32 mile round trip commute. At present this is now two days a week. Before lockdown I was also going to Plymouth once maybe twice a month, and then driving around there when I got there. Plus on a normal weekend I may well drive off somewhere, down to the coast, that sort of thing.

Whilst my annual mileage isn't particularly high, I don't really do "short" trips (although 16 miles especially in winter time is possibly a little short for a modern diesel engine) but when I do drive off somewhere it's generally a longer trip.

I also like the sound a 6 cylinder+ diesel makes, because I'm inherently a yokel. Also reading reviews of some cars I'd like, they suggest the diesel engine is the better all rounder (640d vs 640i, for example).

[Byker28i]

Evanivitch said:

Who's talking about clients? I'm saying a regular, planned commute of 20,000 pa is easily done on a EV or PHEV electric.

I couldn't tell you a driver's car I would happily do 20,000 miles a year in. Which is why I have a daily and a driver's car.

80 mile a day commute for 30K? I wouldn't have a leaf or a Zoe, they're quite limiting and you'd want something that could go further occaisionally if you had to. Then we're still stuck with limited public charges if you live outside of major cities or worse, don't have a driveway and park in the street.

I think the new EV drivers car will be like having a big motorbike, boot it out of corners

[gizlaroc]

Dyl said:

I'd only go diesel now if I was doing significant mileage. I recently changed from a 1.5 diesel Ford Focus, to a 1.4 petrol Seat Leon. On the same commute, the Leon is averaging 48-50mpg (measured on a tank), versus 56-58mpg in the diesel Focus. Not an insignificant difference, but the upside is I'm now driving something much smoother, quieter and with a more flexible powerband.

Isn't it?

I would say 49 vs 57 mpg is not worth worrying about.

Say you do 12000 miles a year. In the diesel it is £22 a week and in the petrol it is £23.50.

When you consider your car may be costing you £60 a week in depreciation or finance, £10 a week for servicing and tyres, £10 a week for insurance. You are looking at what? £102 vs £103.50. 1.5% difference.

I would say that is absolutely insignificant.

And and you rack the miles up, someone doing say 30000 mies a year, will have much higher depreciation, higher servicing, and higher fuel so the percentage doesn't really change much anyway.


I don't think people sit down and work out the overall costs of petrol vs diesel enough, they see an MPG figure and it sound like a massive difference, the reality is very different.

Edited by gizlaroc on Wednesday 1st July 23:19

[anonymous-user]

Or as quite a lot of people have said in this thread, it isn't about the cost. It's because the diesel offering of a particular car is the better engine.

[gizlaroc]

mstrbkr said:

Or as quite a lot of people have said in this thread, it isn't about the cost. It's because the diesel offering of a particular car is the better engine.

Maybe?

I have yet to find one where that is the case though.


I have tried loads too.

I like diesels, but genuinely the only reason I buy them is to save money, I can't think of a single car where the diesel is the best choice.

[ZX10R NIN]

I have been in a fair few cars where the diesel drivetrain is the better option & vice versa both offer the right combination to different people depending on what they want from their car.

I have both & each does their job well I have no problem recommending them.

[Monkeylegend]

Triumph Man said:

DiamondLights said:

The fact is, Diesel IS being demonised (i'm not saying Petrol is better or blah blah blah).

How on earth can it be sensible to charge more money to park a Diesel in a car park than a Petrol? Regardless of car size, regardless of age. Nonsensical.

Welcome to the future.

If it's parked it's not polluting

When they applied the 50% surcharge on parking charges in London for diesel it only applied up to Euro5 cars, so any diesel cars post 2015 are exempt, but don't let the fact stand in the way of a good story.

Those thinking that any future restrictions will only apply to diesel and that their beloved petrol cars will escape being legislated off the roads, dream on.

As things stand at the moment you are ultimately in the same boat as us diesel lovers, you just haven't realised it yet in the pursuit of your diesel hate

[DiamondLights]

Monkeylegend said:

When they applied the 50% surcharge on parking charges in London for diesel it only applied up to Euro5 cars, so any diesel cars post 2015 are exempt, but don't let the fact stand in the way of a good story.

Oh really? You should probably let Islington Council know this then, as they have a whole section on their website explaining why the surcharge include EUR6 cars. But hey, don't let your opinion stand in the way of the facts...

https://www.islington.gov.uk/parking/parking-permi...

The council made the decision not to introduce concessions for Euro 6 vehicles as recent research suggests that they still have high levels of harmful emissions. Research by the International Council on Clean Transportation found that in reality even the newest, cleanest Euro 6 diesel vehicles emit high levels of harmful nitrogen oxide and can be up to seven times higher than this standard permits

[NewUsername]

gizlaroc said:

Maybe?

I have yet to find one where that is the case though.


I have tried loads too.

I like diesels, but genuinely the only reason I buy them is to save money, I can't think of a single car where the diesel is the best choice.

It totally depends on your usage profile

eg I commute loads and i use an auto 320d as a daily, its a great car on the motorway, loads of torque etc etc. Its a way better tool for that job than a 320i. No doubt about it at all.

[C7 JFW]

Evanivitch said:

C7 JFW said:

Evanivitch said:

C7 JFW said:

Diesel only seems worthwhile if:

- 20k miles per annum (or more)

Which is still only an 85 mile round trip commute. Well within the realms of EVs on sale today. Even a PHEV with charging both ends (like my employer provides) will cover that in many cases mostly on Electric.

It might be, but two things:
- Why would I waste my time searching for chargers after attending a client site when I don't have to
- I'm trying to think of an appealing electric car that's £30k and considered a 'drivers' car.

Who's talking about clients? I'm saying a regular, planned commute of 20,000 pa is easily done on a EV or PHEV electric.

I couldn't tell you a driver's car I would happily do 20,000 miles a year in. Which is why I have a daily and a driver's car.

I'm merely responding to your comment with my own context and I expect a lot of people who comment on this would look for their daily to be a fantastic driver's car whenever the option exists.

I have Subaru STI that I happily do 25,000 miles a year in. It's the perfect car for whenever I come across a spectacular road but I can also appear at client sites in a respectable fashion. I also have a driver's car for the weekend - a Honda S2000.

I stand by my comment, there are no EV's that are affordable driver's cars yet - there isn't any that fit the use case I've described. Tesla's products right now are like an Evo 3 and have about as much appeal as a luxury tumble dryer.

I'll wait until the 8th generation thanks.

[Pooh]

I do 30k miles a year mostly visiting customers and I will need a new car next year, I am an Alfa fan so I have been looking at a Giulia but a Tesla model 3 long range is so much cheaper to run, that it will cost me less than the Alfa so that is what I will be getting. It will do over 300 miles on a charge and combined with access to the supercharger network and public charges it will do any journey I will ever need to make while being faster, smoother and cheaper to run.

[Fady]

I drive a Mercedes E350 diesel estate as my main car and it does around 5k miles a year. It's my second one - previous one was diesel also and I was doing a similar sort of mileage.

Cars bought because of their spec rather than type of fuel. Also bought nearly new rather than new where you find 90% of those currently for sale are still diesel.

[NewUsername]

C7 JFW said:

I have Subaru STI that I happily do 25,000 miles a year in....... but I can also appear at client sites in a respectable fashion. .

Do you service traveller sites and large council estates then?

[Pooh]

C7 JFW said:

I stand by my comment, there are no EV's that are affordable driver's cars yet - there isn't any that fit the use case I've described. Tesla's products right now are like an Evo 3 and have about as much appeal as a luxury tumble dryer.

Have you ever driven a Tesla Model 3 Performance or any Tesla?

[Jaguar steve]

ZX10R NIN said:

I have been in a fair few cars where the diesel drivetrain is the better option & vice versa both offer the right combination to different people depending on what they want from their car.

I have both & each does their job well I have no problem recommending them.

I have a 1.4 diesel and a 1.4 petrol. Overall big picture is the diesel wins by a considerable margin.

[C7 JFW]

NewUsername said:

Do you service traveller sites and large council estates then?

It's dark grey with black wheels, so it's not stereotypical.

I go to all manner of settings, some good, some less good.