Would you still go Diesel...

[Aiminghigh123]

I do 25-30k Saab 9-3 Aero 2003 petrol. At 60-70 will still do 35-42mpg depending on temperature outside. Noticed these cold days been around 36 mpg. Even on a fast drive home at 90 GPS speed will get just over 30mpg all pump calculated. Got the car for £500 so depreciation is non existent. Big expense I have had was clutch but any car that can happen. The only diesels I have considered are S60 D5 or VAG of similar age. New diesel no way. Everyone I know has had problems and actually MPG not what they expected. Even guys at work I’m the only one with petrol with a big commute but when we compare costs I’m losing about £50 a month. I can live with that.

[austinsmirk]

I've a 9 yr old 2.0 D mondeo. fair play to ford, its been faultless. seems to be happy achieving 39mpg crawling about and about 55 plus on a run.

to counter balance it: we've a nissan leaf.

now that's cost £233 in 12 mths in electric to drive 8000 miles.

seem to barely use the ford- as the leaf costs nothing to drive. I also cycle a lot- maybe up to 4 times a week to work.


but I love the ford- its a workhouse and fits all my junk in. I care not for it. but what one earth, powerplant wise to replace it with- EV's are not there yet range wise, although they're starting to nudge 200 miles

hybrids are actually no better MPG wise than a decent diesel.

thing is, once you get into electric cars and their ease etc: not much will beat them for the daily churn of domestic life. Yes I know this is PH and you need a car capable of 0-60 in 4 secs, on yr daily commute of 3 miles- but that's not real life.

personally I think we're on the edge of interesting times, car wise.

[Chrismawa]

Currently have an A3 2.0 TDI which I bought as I liked the car when I saw it at the garage and I do 10k+ a year. Not mega miles to warrant a diesel no. I like the car and it does me great as a daily. The only issues I could see having are DPF/EGR which I'll deal with when that happens. I have an app on my phone which I can monitor the soot levels and I always let it finish a regen once started so hopefully the DPF will stay happy!

If I was to replace the car however I'd more than likely choose a petrol.

[TwistingMyMelon]

Id never choose diesel in an ideal world

But in a real world you often have to take whats available at the time, more so when you have constraints like price and practicalities etc

Id love the petrol version of my van, but they were so rare , there wasn't even one for sale SH, where as there were lots of diesel to choose from

[yellowbentines]

Are we going to see the end of diesels being referred to as 'sounds like a taxi'?

Just back from NYC and most yellow cabs are now prius hybrids, in Glasgow here there's a growing number of Toyota petrol/hybrid engined private taxis.

[DailyHack]

What I think is happening, is it's levelling out to those who actually need a diesel and those who don't...in my opinion, like the older days 80's/90's, diesel then was purchased for their inteded purpose of lots of miles...

Basically, if you still do lots of motorway miles it's still a no brainer, but many people bought into diesels just because they had cheap tax, but these cars only went back to the shop every week, false economy right there!

I drive a 2012 318d Touring 104k easy 60mpg + owned for 5 years, currently all over the country with photographic equipment, it does 25k a year, 80% motorway.

It owes me nothing, only cost is fuel and oil every 8k basic maintenance. It's a nice place to be I think having no financial outlay, used primarily for work, claim fuel it actually makes me money on long trips - far cheaper to keep this than swap to a new rent/lease a hybrid/electric offering on a monthly basis - diesels will be around for a while yet, and second hand prices haven't moved I have found.

[Alex_225]

I'm not intending on moving away from diesel for the time being put it that way.

I can literally say that 99% of my yearly mileage is on the motorway, the car cost me £4k and does 50mpg, it has a great power/torque figure and is a pleasure for covering distances.

I suspect my next 'daily' car will be a newer diesel that's again a long distance cruiser and lost 80-90% of it's original value.

I have a feeling that would be the last diesel I will be buying though.

[stupidbutkeen]

Funny enough I am looking at changing cars. The kia ceed gt does approx 23 mpg around the city and after a year its starting to annoy me. Looked at derv but the short trips I do would prob lead to problems.
Seems to me that petrol hybrid is the way to go.

[access_denied]

My company is looking to go to petrol or hybrid this year when leases for current diesel cars and vans expire.

A lot of the London boroughs are adding in a 'fuel type adjustment' tax on top of pay-by-phone app parking if you have a diesel van or car. Islington, Camden, Hackney so far. My personal car is a Euro6 diesel, so no issue yet with TfL as the car is compliant for the upcoming Ultra Low Emission Zone coming in April.

Only issue with diesels is they seem to need a good run or it messes up the DPF. Though it seems the newer petrol cars are getting particulate filters as well.

If electric ranges can be improved, and charging made easier (induction charging like what is used to charge a phone) could be better to encourage more to switch to electric.

[gizlaroc]

carguy143 said:

For now I'd still go diesel, yes.

I drive typically 30k a year mostly on motorways so for me, the long range economy and torque on offer make for a much cheaper car to run than the equivalent petrol. For the record, the car in question has done 174000 miles and still has its original DPF and EGR in place and it's never had a problem with that.

My previous/other car is a 2.5 V6 which I converted to LPG. It offers similar pence per mile to the diesel but due to it achieving only 24mpg Vs my diesel's 50mpg, needs filling up a lot more frequently.

But you are comparing a 20 year old engine with new.

I bet there is a petrol that would give you everything you get from the diesel but with more refinement and for no real difference in cost.

[Sford]

I'll never switch to diesel and neither will my wife as a result. In fact, both my parents and my wife's parents don't/won't have a diesel car.

I do 12k a year - 335i and VX220SC
Wife = 25k a year - Mini Paceman Cooper S
FiL = 15k a year - Golf R and Porsche Macan Turbo PP
MiL = 4k a year - Golf 1.4 petrol
Mum = 4k a year - Fiesta Petrol
Dad = Motorbikes

They're just a bit dull to drive. Even powerful/sports ones that I've driven are just big torque monsters and actually I find them a bit boring.

[gizlaroc]

BMW 2016 Efficient Dynamics Plus model is one diesel that does make sense.

Everyone seems to be getting between 55 and 70mpg as an average, for a car that is still nice to drive, and does 0-60mph in a reasonable 8 seconds it makes sense.

57 litre tank gives most owners 800-900 miles between fill ups.

What I don't get is someone who buys a 335d over a 340i, or all these so called super refined German marques that then have a diesel engine in it.

People buy a new car for £40-50k that is depreciating at £500+ a month, they still need to buy insurance, tyres, servicing at another £150 a month, then you have to buy fuel, does it matter if it costs you £130 a month or £160 a month?
I hear so many say, I would have loved petrol but couldn't justify the costs.
WTF? Does it really make a difference whether you pay £780 a month or £810 a month?

Buy the diesel because you prefer it, but don't do it to save money, not unless you buy something like a 160hp 320d ED and see a proper saving.


Maybe I might buy a 2016 320d ED Touring and run it for 2 years and 40k miles and see what it really returns. I could justify the cost by the 'promised' fuel savings.

Off to Autotrader to have a look for one.

[Hoofy]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

It's an awkward term but I use it to refer to those cars with diesel engines that have a similar sporty performance to what you'd expect out of something more interesting. 450lbft of torque and 6 seconds to 60, rapid gear changes to keep delivering the power and what seemed to be a firmer suspension and tighter steering than normal do it for me. 4WD family cars are supposed to be dull and slow.

https://youtu.be/tCebrhEG5JU

Oh, and 32mpg about town!

Edited by Hoofy on Monday 4th February 14:30

[gizlaroc]

Sford said:

They're just a bit dull to drive. Even powerful/sports ones that I've driven are just big torque monsters and actually I find them a bit boring.

I'm the same, I have had loads of them and they are dull. There is no sense of reward with them, once the novelty of that torque shove has worn off, normally within a couple of hours, they are a bit dull.


Plus with the modern petrols the gap is closing anyway. I bought a 335d Touring and was completely bored of it by the end of the second week, I actually used the AUC policy of swapping within 30 days. I swapped for a 335i Touring.

Now to be fair, it wasn't much different, but the differences were enough to make all the difference.
Much more refined, you lost that really annoying diesel thrum you feel through the car (I admit your brain cancels that out over time), it just felt more refined and what you expect from a car like that, it sounded nice when pressing on and it had a decent rev range which can't be underestimated how much it improves the fun of driving for the sake of driving.
Overall I averaged 4 mpg less with the petrol, which was a small price to pay.

The thing with the petrol was it was seriously refined round town, the gas pedal was not like an on/off switch, but then when you wanted to have fun you could rev it out and it felt like a completely different car.


Ultimately though, it was the fact it felt so diesel like in its delivery that got me to swap back to another M3.

[Rich Boy Spanner]

I just went petrol in December for the first time since 2004. It is a company car and the petrol derivative works out cheaper in BIK over the next 4 years. I don't do huge miles and am anyhow getting 45+ MPG on a motorway run which is good enough. Other than the BIK I also moved to petrol because of uncertainty of local diesel charges, and that matters when your company uses 4 year leases. They will pay 'diesel charges' for business purposes but not private, and I live in an area considering a pollution charge. Other than that, I prefer the petrol, a lot quieter and smoother, and the same car (Octavia) handles far better without the extra weight in the front. I also hate the stink of diesel so glad to be done with them, and the pump doesn't need to me to wear a glove or use towels to stop my hands smelling of the stuff.

[phil1979]

juice said:

Hoofy said:

Hm. Interesting thread as I've been considering getting a performance diesel 4x4 before I commit to hybrid tech.

Recently I tried a Mercedes GLC 350D. I was shocked by the performance - OK it's no GT3 race car but considering it's supposed to be a dull family 4x4 for doing the school run, the stats are bonkers: 3.0-litre V6 twin turbo, 255bhp of power, 457lb ft. With the sports setting, and the seat at the lowest setting, it felt like some kind of bizarre hybrid sports car. 9 gears meant the power on acceleration was relentless. In-gear acceleration eg when overtaking on a motorway was when you could really notice the performance. And 32mpg about town.

More info here: https://www.carmagazine.co.uk/car-reviews/mercedes...

And so before things get a bit silly, I'm toying with the idea of going down the diesel route.

I just bought one. They are great !
The Intelligent lights/adaptive high beam is a thing of witch-craft, the shaded square following the oncoming car is amazing to see.

Yes, I know about the tyre skipping, but I couldn't honestly give a monkeys

Edited to add, I chopped in a Freelander 2 (Euro 5) for this. It's Euro 6 and as far as things stand today, hopefully it's compliant for at least 5 years as Bristol CC will take that long to decide what they want to do with their own version of the ULEZ.
No doubt I'll end up being forced into an electric car for my commute, but my wife doesn't work and hardly ever goes into Bristol (or Bath) so it's not likely to affect us much out in the sticks anyway.

Edited by juice on Monday 4th February 08:36

I've recently got a GLC 350d too. I think it's great, and that's coming from a 6.2 V8 C63 beforehand.

[gizlaroc]

Hoofy said:

It's an awkward term but I use it to refer to those cars with diesel engines that have a similar sporty performance to what you'd expect out of something more interesting. 450lbft of torque and 6 seconds to 60, rapid gear changes to keep delivering the power and what seemed to be a firmer suspension and tighter steering than normal do it for me. 4WD family cars are supposed to be dull and slow.

https://youtu.be/tCebrhEG5JU

Oh, and 32mpg about town!

But the GLC43 over 3 years works out slightly cheaper.

The GLC350d is £3k cheaper, but the residuals on the 43 AMG are £9000 better, so you are looking at £6000 less to fund over 3 years, reality will be even better than that, they always are with AMG models.
Then we have MPG, the 43 AMG is getting 26mpg round town and 35mpg on a run, so for someone doing 12000 miles a year will pay £300 a year more in fuel, so £1000 over the 3 years. Not really making a dent in the £6000 extra you will lose in depreciation going 350d.


Yet, so many will not do the maths and buy the 350d thinking it is the cheaper option.


Edit: Sorry!
Didn't see two people had replied saying they had bought the 350d.
Still an awesome car, but my point stands, the AMG is a better buy.

Edited by gizlaroc on Monday 4th February 14:47

[yellowbentines]

gizlaroc said:

What I don't get is someone who buys a 335d over a 340i, or all these so called super refined German marques that then have a diesel engine in it.

Often is due to the fact that in recent years you havent had the choice of a petrol engine that appeals to the masses.

With many larger/heavier saloons, suvs and estates you can have 4 or 6 cylinder diesel engines that are affordable to run and have the torque to drag the heavy things around, or you can have the range topping AMG or similar petrol which is hugely more expensive to buy and run.

Even taking into considerstion residuals, I dont think theres any way a CLS63 for example is as affordable to finance and run as the diesel engined variants.

[phil1979]

gizlaroc said:

Hoofy said:

It's an awkward term but I use it to refer to those cars with diesel engines that have a similar sporty performance to what you'd expect out of something more interesting. 450lbft of torque and 6 seconds to 60, rapid gear changes to keep delivering the power and what seemed to be a firmer suspension and tighter steering than normal do it for me. 4WD family cars are supposed to be dull and slow.

https://youtu.be/tCebrhEG5JU

Oh, and 32mpg about town!

But the GLC43 over 3 years works out slightly cheaper.

The GLC350d is £3k cheaper, but the residuals on the 43 AMG are £9000 better, so you are looking at £6000 less to fund over 3 years, reality will be even better than that, they always are with AMG models.
Then we have MPG, the 43 AMG is getting 26mpg round town and 35mpg on a run, so for someone doing 12000 miles a year will pay £300 a year more in fuel, so £1000 over the 3 years. Not really making a dent in the £6000 extra you will lose in depreciation going 350d.


Yet, so many will not do the maths and buy the 350d thinking it is the cheaper option.


Edit: Sorry!
Didn't see two people had replied saying they had bought the 350d.
Still an awesome car, but my point stands, the AMG is a better buy.

Edited by gizlaroc on Monday 4th February 14:47

In my case, I bought nearly new - a 2017 model with all the kit, for around £33k. A similar age and mileage GLC43 would have been around £10k more.

[gizlaroc]

yellowbentines said:

Often is due to the fact that in recent years you havent had the choice of a petrol engine that appeals to the masses.

With many larger/heavier saloons, suvs and estates you can have 4 or 6 cylinder diesel engines that are affordable to run and have the torque to drag the heavy things around, or you can have the range topping AMG or similar petrol which is hugely more expensive to buy and run.

Even taking into considerstion residuals, I dont think theres any way a CLS63 for example is as affordable to finance and run as the diesel engined variants.

I agree with that.

I would upgraded my E350 to an E400 estate, obviously we got the E43 here, but sometimes a nice understated spec. with a light interior and a more relaxed nature without the firm damping and 19" wheels and the AMG servicing tax quite appeals.


But that is a Mercedes UK decision, a silly one imho, but still a UK decision.