RE: BMW M140i Finale says bye to rear-drive six-pot

[freeform]

RobM77 said:

I guess it depends on your viewpoint. From my point of view, a car doesn't need "a big wedge of torque" to tell if its rear drive; that difference is just inherently there from the second you go around the first corner, even in a 116i (I drove one a few years ago and really liked it). I'm also keen on driving sims, and despite the obvious open choice of what I drive, many of my favourite cars have under 200bhp.

Yes, really, I do agree!

My two favourite cars of all those I have owned have been my 1975 1186cc Alfasud ti and 1986 Toyota Corolla GT Coupe AE86 - and I am presently trying to adjust the handling of my Honda S2000 to be more like my memory of the Bilsteined Toyota (I bought the Honda hoping for that, and the E30 M3 being out of reach). some very thin slices of 4-cylinder flavoured torque there!

I also chose a 2006 BMW 118d as my company car once (and liked it) - and chose the SE because it was better balanced than the M-Sport equipped one which had a hard time following a Mk1 Focus 1.6.

I have also liked my two Alfa 75 3.0 V6s - especially the first one and despite the big tall lump of Busso, and my current daily Mercedes C320 (a six, even though it is a diesel).

(I disliked my E46 320 compact, expecting a 1-series on the cheap but it wasn't - to me!)

[J4CKO]

RobM77 said:

J4CKO said:

JD said:

E9AAP said:

aeropilot said:

JD said:

Over the wet winter period it’s not even as fast as an S3, let alone an RS3!

And that is important on the public road?
You should be driving to the road conditions, not in some mistaken belief that Vorsprung Durch Technik means "I can defy the laws of physics"

Typical bloody Audi driver

Audi drivers, allways talking about the quality of the leather and smugface no one will get near me when it's wet outside. If those metrics are important, great you probably made the correct decision.
If you value RWD, the squirming of tires and general fun, just get the BMW.
Why did Audi add the RWS R8, I truly wonder...

Erm, take a look at my garage..

I was simply responding to the person claiming it was as fast as an RS3.

Check my garage, I was claiming they weren't poles apart as long as it was dry.

Which, this time of year isnt very often ad the M lites are a bit hampered when its cold and/or wet.

but life isnt about "beating" anything else on the road anyway, they are all so fast nowadays it is lunacy to start doing that kind of thing, going a bit slower when its damp isnt a bad thing, 4wd has more traction but you still only have so much cornering and braking grip.

RS3 isnt an option for most of us buyers of the BMW, same as the A45 isnt, down to cost but not sure I would have gone for either over the BMW anyway.

For me it's about enjoying driving, and that's not really related to how fast something is. For a 30 mile B road trip if I had the choice of a 1960s Elan or a Chiron, I would choose the Elan every time.

Indeed, I remember seeing an old chap in a Frogeye Sprite and he looked like he was enjoying it, I thought it looked st, had a tiny engine and was of zero interest, then I drove one.

[RobM77]

J4CKO said:

RobM77 said:

J4CKO said:

JD said:

E9AAP said:

aeropilot said:

JD said:

Over the wet winter period it’s not even as fast as an S3, let alone an RS3!

And that is important on the public road?
You should be driving to the road conditions, not in some mistaken belief that Vorsprung Durch Technik means "I can defy the laws of physics"

Typical bloody Audi driver

Audi drivers, allways talking about the quality of the leather and smugface no one will get near me when it's wet outside. If those metrics are important, great you probably made the correct decision.
If you value RWD, the squirming of tires and general fun, just get the BMW.
Why did Audi add the RWS R8, I truly wonder...

Erm, take a look at my garage..

I was simply responding to the person claiming it was as fast as an RS3.

Check my garage, I was claiming they weren't poles apart as long as it was dry.

Which, this time of year isnt very often ad the M lites are a bit hampered when its cold and/or wet.

but life isnt about "beating" anything else on the road anyway, they are all so fast nowadays it is lunacy to start doing that kind of thing, going a bit slower when its damp isnt a bad thing, 4wd has more traction but you still only have so much cornering and braking grip.

RS3 isnt an option for most of us buyers of the BMW, same as the A45 isnt, down to cost but not sure I would have gone for either over the BMW anyway.

For me it's about enjoying driving, and that's not really related to how fast something is. For a 30 mile B road trip if I had the choice of a 1960s Elan or a Chiron, I would choose the Elan every time.

Indeed, I remember seeing an old chap in a Frogeye Sprite and he looked like he was enjoying it, I thought it looked st, had a tiny engine and was of zero interest, then I drove one.

That's definitely my sort of car For me, going fast is merely an unintended consequence of enjoy myself, it's not the goal. Even in competitive sport, when running, swimming, motor racing, cycling etc, I focus on and enjoy the technique first and foremost. The speed just arrives as a consequence - it's not the goal. When choosing a road or race car, or even when buying tyres for example, I look at what I enjoy the most, not what is fastest. I genuinely receive no enjoyment at all from driving fast Audis or similar. They're great forms of transport, but I'm no more likely to enjoy an RS4 than a 2.0TDi (and yes, I know that's odd, but I've done a thorough back to back drive and that was my conclusion).

[freeform]

RobM77 said:

J4CKO said:

RobM77 said:

J4CKO said:

JD said:

E9AAP said:

aeropilot said:

JD said:

Over the wet winter period it’s not even as fast as an S3, let alone an RS3!

And that is important on the public road?
You should be driving to the road conditions, not in some mistaken belief that Vorsprung Durch Technik means "I can defy the laws of physics"

Typical bloody Audi driver

Audi drivers, allways talking about the quality of the leather and smugface no one will get near me when it's wet outside. If those metrics are important, great you probably made the correct decision.
If you value RWD, the squirming of tires and general fun, just get the BMW.
Why did Audi add the RWS R8, I truly wonder...

Erm, take a look at my garage..

I was simply responding to the person claiming it was as fast as an RS3.

Check my garage, I was claiming they weren't poles apart as long as it was dry.

Which, this time of year isnt very often ad the M lites are a bit hampered when its cold and/or wet.

but life isnt about "beating" anything else on the road anyway, they are all so fast nowadays it is lunacy to start doing that kind of thing, going a bit slower when its damp isnt a bad thing, 4wd has more traction but you still only have so much cornering and braking grip.

RS3 isnt an option for most of us buyers of the BMW, same as the A45 isnt, down to cost but not sure I would have gone for either over the BMW anyway.

For me it's about enjoying driving, and that's not really related to how fast something is. For a 30 mile B road trip if I had the choice of a 1960s Elan or a Chiron, I would choose the Elan every time.

Indeed, I remember seeing an old chap in a Frogeye Sprite and he looked like he was enjoying it, I thought it looked st, had a tiny engine and was of zero interest, then I drove one.

That's definitely my sort of car For me, going fast is merely an unintended consequence of enjoy myself, it's not the goal. Even in competitive sport, when running, swimming, motor racing, cycling etc, I focus on and enjoy the technique first and foremost. The speed just arrives as a consequence - it's not the goal. When choosing a road or race car, or even when buying tyres for example, I look at what I enjoy the most, not what is fastest.

That is why my fixed-gear bike, built from a springy early '90s steel road frame, is the favourite of all my cycles - it gives back exactly what I put in!

[RobM77]

freeform said:

RobM77 said:

I guess it depends on your viewpoint. From my point of view, a car doesn't need "a big wedge of torque" to tell if its rear drive; that difference is just inherently there from the second you go around the first corner, even in a 116i (I drove one a few years ago and really liked it). I'm also keen on driving sims, and despite the obvious open choice of what I drive, many of my favourite cars have under 200bhp.

Yes, really, I do agree!

My two favourite cars of all those I have owned have been my 1975 1186cc Alfasud ti and 1986 Toyota Corolla GT Coupe AE86 - and I am presently trying to adjust the handling of my Honda S2000 to be more like my memory of the Bilsteined Toyota (I bought the Honda hoping for that, and the E30 M3 being out of reach). some very thin slices of 4-cylinder flavoured torque there!

I also chose a 2006 BMW 118d as my company car once (and liked it) - and chose the SE because it was better balanced than the M-Sport equipped one which had a hard time following a Mk1 Focus 1.6.

I have also liked my two Alfa 75 3.0 V6s - especially the first one and despite the big tall lump of Busso, and my current daily Mercedes C320 (a six, even though it is a diesel).

(I disliked my E46 320 compact, expecting a 1-series on the cheap but it wasn't - to me!)

It sounds like we're very similar in our tastes in cars. I'd be interested to know how you get on with the S2000 I drove a standard one and didn't like it, but on paper it should be close to my ideal car.

I agree on the E46; I've driven several and never really gelled with them. I owned an awful one too (an early 330ci), which has tainted my feelings towards them. The 1 series though, to get back on topic, I really like.

[freeform]

RobM77 said:

It sounds like we're very similar in our tastes in cars. I'd be interested to know how you get on with the S2000 I drove a standard one and didn't like it, but on paper it should be close to my ideal car.

I agree on the E46; I've driven several and never really gelled with them. I owned an awful one too (an early 330ci), which has tainted my feelings towards them. The 1 series though, to get back on topic, I really like.

I have put some details of the ongoing Honda plans in my 'My garage' summary so as not to derail the thread.

M134/140i remains on my list for a daily.

[J4CKO]

freeform said:

RobM77 said:

It sounds like we're very similar in our tastes in cars. I'd be interested to know how you get on with the S2000 I drove a standard one and didn't like it, but on paper it should be close to my ideal car.

I agree on the E46; I've driven several and never really gelled with them. I owned an awful one too (an early 330ci), which has tainted my feelings towards them. The 1 series though, to get back on topic, I really like.

I have put some details of the ongoing Honda plans in my 'My garage' summary so as not to derail the thread.

M134/140i remains on my list for a daily.

Aside from the fuel economy they are the perfect daily really, if you arent in the mood stick it in Comfort (not Eco, thats st) and its very civilised, like a mini barge, feeling more up for it (if you havent got a manual) Sport or Sport Plus (basically lets you have some slip), put the gear stick to the left
and change gear on the paddles, it makes more noise and is a more lairy. Seems keen to hang onto revs in Sport/Sport Plus which is anoyig when ot up for it.

The ride is pretty good I think, I havent got the active dampers, good compromise and you never feel like its undue suffering for having a performance model, I have found diesel S line Audi A3's more jiggly as well as some normal BMs on Runflats, never mind a bloody Cooper S on them, that was hard work.

Obviously as practical as any one series, rear room is better than I anticipated, obviously go the trans tunnel.

Fuel economy on my 7 mile commute is 19 to 23, will do loads more on a run, seen 45 with a 37 mpg genuine average Manchester to Bristol and back, at pace.

[freeform]

J4CKO said:

Aside from the fuel economy they are the perfect daily really, if you arent in the mood stick it in Comfort (not Eco, thats st) and its very civilised, like a mini barge, feeling more up for it (if you havent got a manual) Sport or Sport Plus (basically lets you have some slip), put the gear stick to the left
and change gear on the paddles, it makes more noise and is a more lairy. Seems keen to hang onto revs in Sport/Sport Plus which is anoyig when ot up for it.

The ride is pretty good I think, I havent got the active dampers, good compromise and you never feel like its undue suffering for having a performance model, I have found diesel S line Audi A3's more jiggly as well as some normal BMs on Runflats, never mind a bloody Cooper S on them, that was hard work.

Obviously as practical as any one series, rear room is better than I anticipated, obviously go the trans tunnel.

Fuel economy on my 7 mile commute is 19 to 23, will do loads more on a run, seen 45 with a 37 mpg genuine average Manchester to Bristol and back, at pace.

I have a 150 mile round trip up to four times a week! As it is mostly motorway, I might expect high 30s which actually would be no worse than the <37mpg weekly average of my 2008 C320 'sport' diesel! Depending on the way you look at it, the Mercedes's 3.0, 6 cylinder motor makes diesel tolerable but pointless!

Space-wise, the 1er is fine, as I found with my old E87 and that too was chosen as the most refined car in its class whilst still being a reasonable drive.

All that said, I am still planning to get a lot more of my money's worth out of the Mercedes yet - it is a very relaxing way to do too many miles but still quite a good drive as long as the roads are not too tight.

[Galsia]

How many of these are actually specced with adaptive suspension?

I've been looking for a second-hand one for a while but they seem to be like hens teeth despite most journalists saying that it is an essential option.

[xjay1337]

J4CKO said:

Aside from the fuel economy they are the perfect daily really, if you arent in the mood stick it in Comfort (not Eco, thats st) and its very civilised, like a mini barge, feeling more up for it (if you havent got a manual) Sport or Sport Plus (basically lets you have some slip), put the gear stick to the left
and change gear on the paddles, it makes more noise and is a more lairy. Seems keen to hang onto revs in Sport/Sport Plus which is anoyig when ot up for it.

The ride is pretty good I think, I havent got the active dampers, good compromise and you never feel like its undue suffering for having a performance model, I have found diesel S line Audi A3's more jiggly as well as some normal BMs on Runflats, never mind a bloody Cooper S on them, that was hard work.

Obviously as practical as any one series, rear room is better than I anticipated, obviously go the trans tunnel.

Fuel economy on my 7 mile commute is 19 to 23, will do loads more on a run, seen 45 with a 37 mpg genuine average Manchester to Bristol and back, at pace.

Was yours a 3 or 5 dr?

I can tell you from experience that 4 lads in a m135i 3dr does NOT work very well. Did around 1000 miles but fk me was it tight.
Still managed to snooze in the back of me own car though haha

[freeform]

xjay1337 said:

Was yours a 3 or 5 dr?

I can tell you from experience that 4 lads in a m135i 3dr does NOT work very well. Did around 1000 miles but fk me was it tight.
Still managed to snooze in the back of me own car though haha

In and on my old E87, we managed three full suspension MTBs, all the kit & three blokes for a weekend trail riding in Wales. Three others had a Transit for the same!

[J4CKO]

xjay1337 said:

J4CKO said:

Aside from the fuel economy they are the perfect daily really, if you arent in the mood stick it in Comfort (not Eco, thats st) and its very civilised, like a mini barge, feeling more up for it (if you havent got a manual) Sport or Sport Plus (basically lets you have some slip), put the gear stick to the left
and change gear on the paddles, it makes more noise and is a more lairy. Seems keen to hang onto revs in Sport/Sport Plus which is anoyig when ot up for it.

The ride is pretty good I think, I havent got the active dampers, good compromise and you never feel like its undue suffering for having a performance model, I have found diesel S line Audi A3's more jiggly as well as some normal BMs on Runflats, never mind a bloody Cooper S on them, that was hard work.

Obviously as practical as any one series, rear room is better than I anticipated, obviously go the trans tunnel.

Fuel economy on my 7 mile commute is 19 to 23, will do loads more on a run, seen 45 with a 37 mpg genuine average Manchester to Bristol and back, at pace.

Was yours a 3 or 5 dr?

I can tell you from experience that 4 lads in a m135i 3dr does NOT work very well. Did around 1000 miles but fk me was it tight.
Still managed to snooze in the back of me own car though haha

Mines a 5 door.

[nickfrog]

Galsia said:

How many of these are actually specced with adaptive suspension?

I've been looking for a second-hand one for a while but they seem to be like hens teeth despite most journalists saying that it is an essential option.

Not sure why they said that, but journos say a lot of things, not always useful. It's quite nice to have but the passive dampers are fine and it would be a shame to drastically cut down the number of potential cars just because of it IMO.

[BFleming]

nickfrog said:

Galsia said:

How many of these are actually specced with adaptive suspension?

I've been looking for a second-hand one for a while but they seem to be like hens teeth despite most journalists saying that it is an essential option.

Not sure why they said that, but journos say a lot of things, not always useful. It's quite nice to have but the passive dampers are fine and it would be a shame to drastically cut down the number of potential cars just because of it IMO.

Agreed. The press said the same thing about the 5 series F10/F11 model - 'specify the adaptive suspension whatever else you do'. My car has it. Sure it makes a difference, but having now experienced it, I think it's overrated.
As a lot of 135i's & 140i's started their life as company cars, and as some companies make the employee pay for any extras over the life of the lease, extras are usually slim pickings.

[JuanGandini]

I loved my old 3dr pre-LCI M135i but alas the lease ended in 2016 and I now need a large boot to accommodate kiddy-related paraphernalia.

Once the kids are old enough to not require pushchairs etc, I'd love to have the option of another 6cyl RWD hatchback.

I guess it'll just be a second hand M140i as I'll not go for a 4wd 4 pot thanks. Shame on you BMW.

[3795mpower]

This is my m135i
Bought approved used with just 12k miles on it.
In my third year with it now.

Plus points>
Strong performance (surprises everyone who takes a ride)
Great soundtrack
ZF8 speed is excellent and gives good mpg on a run.
Comfortable cruiser on long journeys.
Nice seating position.
Awesome headlights (adaptive xenons) expect the LED’s are better still.
Practical.
Good easy to use navigation and phone voice control.
Brakes hold up well.


Minus points>
Could use a diff but if you want one it’s available.
The 1’er is quite common (this could be a plus for blending in)
Steering feel not the best.
A little short on rear leg room.
Fast A/B roads push the stock suspension to its limits but only when
At 7/8 tenths.
Funny enough I find the suspension fine on track.

I don’t regret buying it for a second and I love the fact it
Sits slightly under the radar of most folk.

The styling has grown on me a lot
(my M3/M5 friends christened it The Breadvan!)
I think it will grow better with age and we’ll never see that
Long bonnet profile on a hatch again.

Still, I read somewhere Bmw did a survey and something like 70% of
People who had a 1 series didn’t know it was RWD.
(Not the PH contingent obviously)
With that kind of statistic it’s little wonder the accountants got their
Way with a platform sharing FWD config.

[freeform]

BFleming said:

nickfrog said:

Galsia said:

How many of these are actually specced with adaptive suspension?

I've been looking for a second-hand one for a while but they seem to be like hens teeth despite most journalists saying that it is an essential option.

Not sure why they said that, but journos say a lot of things, not always useful. It's quite nice to have but the passive dampers are fine and it would be a shame to drastically cut down the number of potential cars just because of it IMO.

Agreed. The press said the same thing about the 5 series F10/F11 model - 'specify the adaptive suspension whatever else you do'. My car has it. Sure it makes a difference, but having now experienced it, I think it's overrated.
As a lot of 135i's & 140i's started their life as company cars, and as some companies make the employee pay for any extras over the life of the lease, extras are usually slim pickings.

Adaptive dampers may be fine but on any model or make of car, if you think you may ever change the dampers for uprated ones, get a car without as the adaptive car will expect to see the dampers connected. You may bet able to get them coded out or may not.

[jwo]

Shame this will be the last of the straight 6 and RWD in a little car.

Incredibly satisfying as other have said, hooking her up properly off a roundabout and whizzing off. Admittedly in the damp winter conditions care is required - I’m finding the winters help massively on mine (although today a bit too warm and Milton Keynes roundabouts proved more fun than usual!!)...

It’s not a perfect car, but has character and fun, and will bite back if you drive like a konb... think I’ll be keeping mine for a long time..

[RobM77]

freeform said:

BFleming said:

nickfrog said:

Galsia said:

How many of these are actually specced with adaptive suspension?

I've been looking for a second-hand one for a while but they seem to be like hens teeth despite most journalists saying that it is an essential option.

Not sure why they said that, but journos say a lot of things, not always useful. It's quite nice to have but the passive dampers are fine and it would be a shame to drastically cut down the number of potential cars just because of it IMO.

Agreed. The press said the same thing about the 5 series F10/F11 model - 'specify the adaptive suspension whatever else you do'. My car has it. Sure it makes a difference, but having now experienced it, I think it's overrated.
As a lot of 135i's & 140i's started their life as company cars, and as some companies make the employee pay for any extras over the life of the lease, extras are usually slim pickings.

Adaptive dampers may be fine but on any model or make of car, if you think you may ever change the dampers for uprated ones, get a car without as the adaptive car will expect to see the dampers connected. You may bet able to get them coded out or may not.

Most cars will see a noticeable reduction in damping after 30k miles and need changing if you care about handling after 70-80k miles. This could get very expensive if you have to go back to BMW for parts and labour just to change four dampers. We see this already with batteries - to change the battery on my 2010 E90 is several hundred pounds, because it has to be "coded to the car". Even if I get a BMW indie to code it, I have to buy the battery from BMW. I just changed a battery on my wife's Honda and I had an open choice from £60 to £100 and I fitted it myself in ten minutes.

[xjay1337]

RobM77 said:

Most cars will see a noticeable reduction in damping after 30k miles and need changing if you care about handling after 70-80k miles. This could get very expensive if you have to go back to BMW for parts and labour just to change four dampers. We see this already with batteries - to change the battery on my 2010 E90 is several hundred pounds, because it has to be "coded to the car". Even if I get a BMW indie to code it, I have to buy the battery from BMW. I just changed a battery on my wife's Honda and I had an open choice from £60 to £100 and I fitted it myself in ten minutes.

It doesn't need coding as long as it's the same battery type.
Only if you change from AGM to normal one or vice versa.
Even so if you are that bothered a decent local independant should be able to do it for £30, as it takes literally 5 minutes.