RE: BMW M140i Finale says bye to rear-drive six-pot
Discussion
nickfrog said:
Not sure why they said that, but journos say a lot of things, not always useful. It's quite nice to have but the passive dampers are fine and it would be a shame to drastically cut down the number of potential cars just because of it IMO.
It's easy for them to say stuff when it isn't their money!I've got a 2016 M140i with a manual gearbox and I can only echo what's already been said: great car, brilliant engine but with shockingly poor suspension and a below par gear shift. I've had mine a year now and im tempted to junk the OEM shocks and springs in favour of something better but there's not a lot I can do about the crap gearbox. I also worry about what bmw will say if the car develops a fault with any of the steering components such as the rack (there have been issues with some cars needing replacement racks).
I bought a manual for the driving involvement and also because I planned to keep the car for several years so I didn't want the risk of the ZF8 failing once the warranty expires (again some cars have had issues with the box). In reality tho, the notchy gear shift and clumsy damping does ruin it as a drivers cars.
I bought a manual for the driving involvement and also because I planned to keep the car for several years so I didn't want the risk of the ZF8 failing once the warranty expires (again some cars have had issues with the box). In reality tho, the notchy gear shift and clumsy damping does ruin it as a drivers cars.
nickfrog said:
R1 Dave said:
with shockingly poor suspension
What's wrong with it ? Too soft and too much roll I assume.It's particularly bad at this time of year as the tyres don't necessarily grip as well due to the cold grimy roads.
They are great cars but the chassis is the limiting factor, the engine is fabulous, you just can't enjoy it as well as you might if the chassis was better engineered.
nickfrog said:
R1 Dave said:
with shockingly poor suspension
What's wrong with it ? Too soft and too much roll I assume.I love my 135. As others have said, a really good all rounder and capable machine. Just don’t expect to get the best out of it on the first drive.
the problem with the suspension I found was that it didn't handle extreme (IE most bumpy british) roads well.
The roll control was OK, but the spring and dampers didn't seem matched so it would feel like it was going to pogo up into the air if you hit a tricky bump mid corner.
On track this behaviour doesn't really exhibit itself as the surface is smooth.
I have Milway camber plates and Bilstein b14 coilovers which has much improved things.
I'll be poly bushing as well over time.
With these mods along side an LSD (i have m performance plated unit) it really does inspire much more confidence on the road and on track you get much better turn in and less tyre wear.
it also is much happier going sideways and far more predictable.
The roll control was OK, but the spring and dampers didn't seem matched so it would feel like it was going to pogo up into the air if you hit a tricky bump mid corner.
On track this behaviour doesn't really exhibit itself as the surface is smooth.
I have Milway camber plates and Bilstein b14 coilovers which has much improved things.
I'll be poly bushing as well over time.
With these mods along side an LSD (i have m performance plated unit) it really does inspire much more confidence on the road and on track you get much better turn in and less tyre wear.
it also is much happier going sideways and far more predictable.
xjay1337 said:
the problem with the suspension I found was that it didn't handle extreme (IE most bumpy british) roads well.
The roll control was OK, but the spring and dampers didn't seem matched so it would feel like it was going to pogo up into the air if you hit a tricky bump mid corner.
On track this behaviour doesn't really exhibit itself as the surface is smooth.
I have Milway camber plates and Bilstein b14 coilovers which has much improved things.
I'll be poly bushing as well over time.
With these mods along side an LSD (i have m performance plated unit) it really does inspire much more confidence on the road and on track you get much better turn in and less tyre wear.
it also is much happier going sideways and far more predictable.
I'm thinking Bilstein B12 and M4 LCAs, plus rear brace. Might go for some Motech ARBs too. I've never really modified my cars and don't like image of an obviously modified car but from what I've seen on the forums it's a pretty subtle upgrade. The roll control was OK, but the spring and dampers didn't seem matched so it would feel like it was going to pogo up into the air if you hit a tricky bump mid corner.
On track this behaviour doesn't really exhibit itself as the surface is smooth.
I have Milway camber plates and Bilstein b14 coilovers which has much improved things.
I'll be poly bushing as well over time.
With these mods along side an LSD (i have m performance plated unit) it really does inspire much more confidence on the road and on track you get much better turn in and less tyre wear.
it also is much happier going sideways and far more predictable.
I hope x1000 that the 2 series coupe still receives RWD. Would be a shame for BMW's smallest chassis to no longer receive the RWD treatment. Gonna take a guess that it will follow in its footsteps. A FWD coupe doesn't really make sense to me however, only car it would compete with is the TT, if we look at the big 3 manufacturers current and future offerings.
R1 Dave said:
I'm thinking Bilstein B12 and M4 LCAs, plus rear brace. Might go for some Motech ARBs too. I've never really modified my cars and don't like image of an obviously modified car but from what I've seen on the forums it's a pretty subtle upgrade.
That was the killer for me. I just couldn't be arsed to modify the car and have the hassle of insurance etc. It's not my scene either so just want something that works out the box.Shame as there are so many good aspects but crap suspension is pretty fundamental imo.
Sounds like these cars are going to go from their first owners who perhaps keep them standard and then move on to those who are going to apply some pretty choice modifications, its a really good base and at say 12 grand up, plus 3 to 4 in mods you have something pretty special.
All I have done is a BlueSpark tuning box, £175 and well worth it, otherwise not sinking loads of money into it as will get something else in a couple of years.
All I have done is a BlueSpark tuning box, £175 and well worth it, otherwise not sinking loads of money into it as will get something else in a couple of years.
freeform said:
Adaptive dampers may be fine but on any model or make of car, if you think you may ever change the dampers for uprated ones, get a car without as the adaptive car will expect to see the dampers connected. You may bet able to get them coded out or may not.
One can indeed code them out by simply removing the specific entry from the VO of the car - then replacing the shocks with whatever one chooses. The VO code on my car for the adaptive damping is 223 (or S223A / $223). Not a monetary amount, just a BMW build code.xjay1337 said:
RobM77 said:
Most cars will see a noticeable reduction in damping after 30k miles and need changing if you care about handling after 70-80k miles. This could get very expensive if you have to go back to BMW for parts and labour just to change four dampers. We see this already with batteries - to change the battery on my 2010 E90 is several hundred pounds, because it has to be "coded to the car". Even if I get a BMW indie to code it, I have to buy the battery from BMW. I just changed a battery on my wife's Honda and I had an open choice from £60 to £100 and I fitted it myself in ten minutes.
It doesn't need coding as long as it's the same battery type. Only if you change from AGM to normal one or vice versa.
Even so if you are that bothered a decent local independant should be able to do it for £30, as it takes literally 5 minutes.
The new battery needs registering (which is what RobM77 refers to as coding). It doesn't need to be a BMW battery, but you do need to tell the car it has a new battery. Lots of aps for this these days - I use Carly for example, but it's also possible using Ediabas.
BFleming said:
freeform said:
Adaptive dampers may be fine but on any model or make of car, if you think you may ever change the dampers for uprated ones, get a car without as the adaptive car will expect to see the dampers connected. You may bet able to get them coded out or may not.
One can indeed code them out by simply removing the specific entry from the VO of the car - then replacing the shocks with whatever one chooses. The VO code on my car for the adaptive damping is 223 (or S223A / $223). Not a monetary amount, just a BMW build code.xjay1337 said:
RobM77 said:
Most cars will see a noticeable reduction in damping after 30k miles and need changing if you care about handling after 70-80k miles. This could get very expensive if you have to go back to BMW for parts and labour just to change four dampers. We see this already with batteries - to change the battery on my 2010 E90 is several hundred pounds, because it has to be "coded to the car". Even if I get a BMW indie to code it, I have to buy the battery from BMW. I just changed a battery on my wife's Honda and I had an open choice from £60 to £100 and I fitted it myself in ten minutes.
It doesn't need coding as long as it's the same battery type. Only if you change from AGM to normal one or vice versa.
Even so if you are that bothered a decent local independant should be able to do it for £30, as it takes literally 5 minutes.
The new battery needs registering (which is what RobM77 refers to as coding). It doesn't need to be a BMW battery, but you do need to tell the car it has a new battery. Lots of aps for this these days - I use Carly for example, but it's also possible using Ediabas.
Coding was the term my indie and BMW dealer used. That's interesting - so there's a chance I could do the job myself? I presume I'd need the right OBD connector? If I don't code/register it, what happens? Can I still drive my car to someone who can code/register it?RobM77 said:
BFleming said:
freeform said:
Adaptive dampers may be fine but on any model or make of car, if you think you may ever change the dampers for uprated ones, get a car without as the adaptive car will expect to see the dampers connected. You may bet able to get them coded out or may not.
One can indeed code them out by simply removing the specific entry from the VO of the car - then replacing the shocks with whatever one chooses. The VO code on my car for the adaptive damping is 223 (or S223A / $223). Not a monetary amount, just a BMW build code.xjay1337 said:
RobM77 said:
Most cars will see a noticeable reduction in damping after 30k miles and need changing if you care about handling after 70-80k miles. This could get very expensive if you have to go back to BMW for parts and labour just to change four dampers. We see this already with batteries - to change the battery on my 2010 E90 is several hundred pounds, because it has to be "coded to the car". Even if I get a BMW indie to code it, I have to buy the battery from BMW. I just changed a battery on my wife's Honda and I had an open choice from £60 to £100 and I fitted it myself in ten minutes.
It doesn't need coding as long as it's the same battery type. Only if you change from AGM to normal one or vice versa.
Even so if you are that bothered a decent local independant should be able to do it for £30, as it takes literally 5 minutes.
The new battery needs registering (which is what RobM77 refers to as coding). It doesn't need to be a BMW battery, but you do need to tell the car it has a new battery. Lots of aps for this these days - I use Carly for example, but it's also possible using Ediabas.
Coding was the term my indie and BMW dealer used. That's interesting - so there's a chance I could do the job myself? I presume I'd need the right OBD connector? If I don't code/register it, what happens? Can I still drive my car to someone who can code/register it?Somebody might put me right but I expect telling the car it has a new battery is about battery/alternator management (a CO2 reduction measure), in which case it should still work.
Edited by freeform on Thursday 14th February 11:17
R1 Dave said:
nickfrog said:
R1 Dave said:
with shockingly poor suspension
What's wrong with it ? Too soft and too much roll I assume.It's particularly bad at this time of year as the tyres don't necessarily grip as well due to the cold grimy roads.
They are great cars but the chassis is the limiting factor, the engine is fabulous, you just can't enjoy it as well as you might if the chassis was better engineered.
freeform said:
As BFleming suggested above, 'Carly for BMW', a phone app (no doubt you would need the paid for version but it is worth it if you own the car). You can use a cheap bluetooth OBD adapter to connect. I have Carly for Mercedes, which is very good for the money (£40 or so, IIRC).
Somebody might put me right but I expect telling the car it has a new battery is about battery/alternator management (a CO2 reduction measure), in which case it should still work.
Registering a battery tells the car it's a new battery & it can charge it accordingly. Batteries lose capacity over time, & the car electrics adjust charging accordingly.Somebody might put me right but I expect telling the car it has a new battery is about battery/alternator management (a CO2 reduction measure), in which case it should still work.
RobM77 said:
Thanks for the info Coding was the term my indie and BMW dealer used. That's interesting - so there's a chance I could do the job myself? I presume I'd need the right OBD connector? If I don't code/register it, what happens? Can I still drive my car to someone who can code/register it?
You can put a new battery in & drive it to someone to register it with no real world issues. You may get glitches like the start/stop not working, or a battery error message (unlikely though). Coding was the term my indie and BMW dealer used. That's interesting - so there's a chance I could do the job myself? I presume I'd need the right OBD connector? If I don't code/register it, what happens? Can I still drive my car to someone who can code/register it?Edited by BFleming on Thursday 14th February 11:27
R1 Dave said:
I'm thinking Bilstein B12 and M4 LCAs, plus rear brace. Might go for some Motech ARBs too. I've never really modified my cars and don't like image of an obviously modified car but from what I've seen on the forums it's a pretty subtle upgrade.
Camber plates probably a better option for you, the M4 LCA move the wheel forward in the arch and it looks weird.... Also increases the track which reduces arch clearance.Although apparently the bushing in the M4 LCA is a bit stiffer, I haven't driven one fitted with the wishbone to compare.
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