RE: BMW X5 M50d: Driven

[Ares]

E65Ross said:

Ares said:

st4 said:

Ares said:

My 640d was the quietest and most refined car I have ever owned.

In that case poor you. It’s just not a refined engine - and trying pretend it’s as refined as a petrol is utterly hilarious.

I said the car, not just the engine, and it isn't as hilarious is saying as the assertions that it is Coarse/Intrusive/Unrefined/Intolerable/gives a low speed racket.

The car really is no different in NVH to the petrol, it'd go as far as to say the d is smoother - hence why I bought it over the I!

I usually agree with you on most topics but here I'm inclined to disagree. To say it's unrefined and harsh, however, is a bit OTT. It's hardly an intrusive and horrible experience like many 4 cylinder diesels can be. It is not, though, as refined as the equivalent petrol. On the motorway, though, it is not perceptible at all. Anyone who says otherwise isn't telling the truth.

I drove them both back to back. From the driving seat, in NVH, there really is no different with the possible exception of the first 2-3 seconds on start up.

[cerb4.5lee]

Ares said:

schaeffs said:

st4 said:

Yep. Bulk of my miles are done on sweeping A and B roads and motorways/autoroutes/autopistas

Most of my cars end up averaging between the extra urban figure and combined figures.

Though if I lived in England I’d really have to have the petrol or hybrid. That idling/low speed racket from the diesel - I couldn’t be doing with that!!!

I beg to differ on Idling / low speed "racket". Of the cars I have at the moment - the one that makes the most "racket" at idle is the GT4... quite happy to live with that though...

If someone hates diesels, they will find ever justifiable reason to hate diesels. If you find an X5/X6 40d unrefined and giving a 'low speed racket' then you are either very unique or have unrealistic expectations. My 640d was the quietest and most refined car I have ever owned.

Ares is correct and if you dislike diesels you will always dislike diesels and I fall into that trap myself. I criticised my 640d for the noise it made at idle and moving away at very low revs, and I also criticise the Merc 350d engine I have now for the same reason.

I did respect the performance/economy mix that the 640d offered though and I really liked the car overall. I would have personally enjoyed the 640d even more if it had a petrol engine though(I just prefer a petrol engine in that type of car).

In saying that though I had a X5 4.8iS and I thought that engine was a complete waste in something so big/heavy/unrewarding to drive. I would rather have the 40d/50d engine in a X5 because it is a tool to do a job type of vehicle, rather than something you can really enjoy driving.

[st4]

cerb4.5lee said:

Ares is correct and if you dislike diesels you will always dislike diesels and I fall into that trap myself. I criticised my 640d for the noise it made at idle and moving away at very low revs, and I also criticise the Merc 350d engine I have now for the same reason.

I did respect the performance/economy mix that the 640d offered though and I really liked the car overall. I would have personally enjoyed the 640d even more if it had a petrol engine though(I just prefer a petrol engine in that type of car).

In saying that though I had a X5 4.8iS and I thought that engine was a complete waste in something so big/heavy/unrewarding to drive. I would rather have the 40d/50d engine in a X5 because it is a tool to do a job type of vehicle, rather than something you can really enjoy driving.

You can always enjoy driving in anything. The 4.8iS makes a great rumble and is beauitfully hushed at idle in a way a diesel isn't. These cars are all about comfort and refinement and petrol makes more sense in that regard. To me anyway. I'm quite glad the regulators are irratonally clamping down on diesel - less of these horrid noisy things on the second hand market to me is a great great thing.

[E65Ross]

cerb4.5lee said:

I did respect the performance/economy mix that the 640d offered though and I really liked the car overall. I would have personally enjoyed the 640d even more if it had a petrol engine though(I just prefer a petrol engine in that type of car).

Just out of question, why did you buy the diesel then?

[cerb4.5lee]

E65Ross said:

cerb4.5lee said:

I did respect the performance/economy mix that the 640d offered though and I really liked the car overall. I would have personally enjoyed the 640d even more if it had a petrol engine though(I just prefer a petrol engine in that type of car).

Just out of question, why did you buy the diesel then?

Rightly or wrongly I think diesel works out better for covering 30k miles a year. The range is a bonus...but it is arguable how much money you actually save(if any) rather than going for a petrol.

[st4]

cerb4.5lee said:

Rightly or wrongly I think diesel works out better for covering 30k miles a year. The range is a bonus...but it is arguable how much money you actually save(if any) rather than going for a petrol.

I couldn't spend 30k miles a year driving with that engine. I'd lose the will to live.

[cerb4.5lee]

st4 said:

cerb4.5lee said:

Rightly or wrongly I think diesel works out better for covering 30k miles a year. The range is a bonus...but it is arguable how much money you actually save(if any) rather than going for a petrol.

I couldn't spend 30k miles a year driving with that engine. I'd lose the will to live.

Blimey and I thought I didn't like diesel!

[aeropilot]

Ares said:

st4 said:

My experience is that of a car that rides well, is refined, comfortable and pleasant to drive.

Sums Lexus up perfectly. The choice of the discerning grey haired gentleman in beige slacks. Automotive Tweed.

[theboss]

What the hell is NVH?

[aeropilot]

theboss said:

What the hell is NVH?

Noise, Vibration, Harshness.

[cerb4.5lee]

aeropilot said:

theboss said:

What the hell is NVH?

Noise, Vibration, Harshness.

Or in other words a diesel engine!

[MrGTI6]

st4 said:

Why?I drive a Lexus - they're better cars than BMWs.

How does your Japanese Mercedes compare to the Rover 800?

[E65Ross]

cerb4.5lee said:

E65Ross said:

cerb4.5lee said:

I did respect the performance/economy mix that the 640d offered though and I really liked the car overall. I would have personally enjoyed the 640d even more if it had a petrol engine though(I just prefer a petrol engine in that type of car).

Just out of question, why did you buy the diesel then?

Rightly or wrongly I think diesel works out better for covering 30k miles a year. The range is a bonus...but it is arguable how much money you actually save(if any) rather than going for a petrol.

Doesn't strictly answer my question, or is it the fact you purely bought in on range? Not sure on the range difference between the 640i and 640d....? If you really don't like diesel engines I'd be surprised if it was range that was the determining factor, and, as you say it isn't really cost...so just curious

[cerb4.5lee]

E65Ross said:

cerb4.5lee said:

E65Ross said:

cerb4.5lee said:

I did respect the performance/economy mix that the 640d offered though and I really liked the car overall. I would have personally enjoyed the 640d even more if it had a petrol engine though(I just prefer a petrol engine in that type of car).

Just out of question, why did you buy the diesel then?

Rightly or wrongly I think diesel works out better for covering 30k miles a year. The range is a bonus...but it is arguable how much money you actually save(if any) rather than going for a petrol.

Doesn't strictly answer my question, or is it the fact you purely bought in on range? Not sure on the range difference between the 640i and 640d....? If you really don't like diesel engines I'd be surprised if it was range that was the determining factor, and, as you say it isn't really cost...so just curious

I think because I've tried running V8 petrols as a daily in the past and I got frustrated with their range and epic fuel costs that I've swayed more towards a diesel that's all.

Range wise the 640d offered 600 miles plus to a tank, I don't know if the 640i would offer the same as that though in fairness. I do also appreciate the very low down shove that a diesel offers...if not the harshness at idle/low revs.

[st4]

Ares said:

They're really not. Nor are they white goods. But again, I don't drive a German car of any kind.

The GSF is good, but not great, I drove it in comparison with the M3, C63s, Ghibli S when I changed my car 18mths ago. It is like a 10yr old AMG. Great engine, vague steering, not very communicative when driving, feels too heavy, and quick, but only feels Ghibli quick, not M3 quick let alone C63s/QV quick.

I've driven the Stinger too. Underwhelming. Good competitor to a 340i/C43, but still left wanting.

I think you’ll find mass produced German cars are pretty much white goods products and are about as characterful (particularly the Diesels) as a wet cabbage.

[st4]

MrGTI6 said:

How does your Japanese Mercedes compare to the Rover 800?

Better than any BMW or Merc I’ve owned.

[st4]

cerb4.5lee said:

Or in other words a diesel engine!

Lots of NVH in a diesel - virtually none in a petrol. For a car that majors on refinement and you can afford £50k plus to buy the thing then what’s an extra £20-£50/week to have one with a nice engine as opposed one that makes it feel like a Saturday night minicab

[st4]

cerb4.5lee said:

I think because I've tried running V8 petrols as a daily in the past and I got frustrated with their range and epic fuel costs that I've swayed more towards a diesel that's all.

Range wise the 640d offered 600 miles plus to a tank, I don't know if the 640i would offer the same as that though in fairness. I do also appreciate the very low down shove that a diesel offers...if not the harshness at idle/low revs.

A 640i would give you 450 - 500. Hardly a gas guzzler but a luxuriously smooth engine for a big comfy motor

[aeropilot]

st4 said:

mass produced German cars are pretty much white goods products and are about as characterful (particularly the Diesels) as a wet cabbage.

Says the man who owns a Lexus

Black, pot and kettle spring to mind.

[st4]

aeropilot said:

Says the man who owns a Lexus

Black, pot and kettle spring to mind.

Blandness and “white goods” is a charge often levelled at Lexus by lesser car drivers but those who live in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones.

At least the Lexus IS made well, has characterful enjoyable petrol engines. Driving around in a sold by the tens if not hundreds of thousands badly made uncomfortable and unrefined eurobox on finance with a posh sticker on the front is not owning a characterful or interesting car.