RE: Hyundai i30 N Fastback vs Skoda Octavia vRS 245

[havoc]

blearyeyedboy said:

Hyperbole? You usually write some decent posts, havoc, but you're the one engaging in reductio ad absurdam here.

I was deliberately prodding the Octavia fanboys, who are justifying their purchase as it lets them carry all their middle class* crap around. And I had posted some stuff about choices before, which got firmly ignored. Being fair, if you're an outdoorsy family then it makes a ton of sense as it's a really good alternative to the estates from the next class up...otherwise there's a strong argument for the i30 and a roofbox or bike rack.




* I, sadly, am both firmly middle class and cynical enough to laugh at myself for it. I'm also too selfish to go and buy a properly practical car so we manage with the FD2, which has proven itself surprisingly versatile on more than one occasion (overly stiff suspension aside...good job our kids don't get travel-sick)

[Trophy Husband]

havoc said:

blearyeyedboy said:

Hyperbole? You usually write some decent posts, havoc, but you're the one engaging in reductio ad absurdam here.

I was deliberately prodding the Octavia fanboys, who are justifying their purchase as it lets them carry all their middle class* crap around. And I had posted some stuff about choices before, which got firmly ignored. Being fair, if you're an outdoorsy family then it makes a ton of sense as it's a really good alternative to the estates from the next class up...otherwise there's a strong argument for the i30 and a roofbox or bike rack.




* I, sadly, am both firmly middle class and cynical enough to laugh at myself for it. I'm also too selfish to go and buy a properly practical car so we manage with the FD2, which has proven itself surprisingly versatile on more than one occasion (overly stiff suspension aside...good job our kids don't get travel-sick)

I'm sorry. I'm with havoc on this one. The Octavia is the Nando's of the car world. All top show. Fur coat and no knickers. Lace curtains and no dinner. If I walked out of my house at 0600hrs in the morning and was greeted with one on the drive it wouldn't make me feel like I was lucky, I'd probably harrumph, I may even have a little sick in my throat. It would make me feel like I'd compromised (which it would have been). For another £2/day ( 60% of a flat white in Costa) I'm sure I could be in something far more thrilling/appealing to my sense of carness and wellbeing with nearing 600 litres of space. If I couldn't I'd just leave my 8 year old home alone or get him a train ticket. He's dead sensible and knows about stranger danger. For the Skoda owners that last bit was a joke.

Dull, dull, dull. When I see a dull car I think dull owner. I know that's not true of course but I wouldn't want to run the risk of people's first impression being that and having to fight my way back! Maybe that's wrong but I just can't shake it. Sorry. Shoot me.

All of course just my humble opinion.

[RemyMartin81D]

I had mixed feelings on the fastback , judged on the photos I've seen here it's definitely not a looker, however I followed just a boggo fastback on the motorway today and I did think 'that looks good, so I imagine IRL the i30N probably looks great too' amazing how pictures can fail to capture that.

[blearyeyedboy]

havoc said:

I was deliberately prodding the Octavia fanboys, who are justifying their purchase as it lets them carry all their middle class* crap around.

As Oscar Wilde put it: "Oi! I resemble that comment!" (To be fair, I was talked into taking a fire guard on holiday last year! True story. Feel free to mock.)

Trophy Husband said:

Dull, dull, dull. When I see a dull car I think dull owner.

Yes, I guess I resemble that one too.

By comparison, I appreciate the lack of "show" of something like an FD2. I think it's great that people can choose things in a style they like; it's just not my cup of tea. Or M&S slacks, if you prefer. I like that people think it's a dull car and don't look twice- I appreciate not being anyone's focus of attention.

What I find interesting is that (a) it seems to evoke such strong emotions and (b) I think it's the wrong comparison. When something like a Focus ST estate has 450ish litres of boot space then the Hyundai becomes of interest. I think that despite numerous attempts at people to project themselves as an Octavia vRS rival, the closest so far have been the Leon ST/Golf R (which are not really all that different, potency levels notwithstanding). If Hyundai take this approach with an i40 estate, *then* you're talking something that might steal the vRS' lunch money.

Hyundai have made a nice car that, as far as I can see, sits in its own particular niche in the "2 litre turbo FWD hatch" bit of the market, and does it very well.

ZX10R NIN said:

I agree but at that point I buy the better steering Mondeo.

I'm intrigued by this comment. I thought the latest Mondeo was bigger and flabbier than the sharp (for a big FWD car) previous version. Have I done it a disservice?

[daytonavrs]

Well I think people should take their rose tints off if they find Octavia dull. Seems like an irony bypass has been performed.
A lot of this segment is all dull in a sea of dullness. This is whether its Golf R, Cupra , BMW 140i or what have you.

If you wouldn't rather have something like a Jaguar F or NIssan 370Z, or Porsche 911 etc then you are probably dead above the neck anyway. Chances you are were already priotising practicality for some reason right ?

These are PRACTICAL cars we are talking about. If they get you hot, sorry but you are a sad bd.
I find it desperately sad that some are trying to top trump in what is a very ordinairy segment of the market

Reality calling - This ain't superbike levels of performance we talking about here guys and not Ducati 911 esque styling either
I hung my bike 0-60 in 3 seconds keys up but now that is proper levels of excitement. What we talking about here is some midly fast cars with very very modest styling, lets not forget.

And in this the Octavia is the more modest /honest and pushes its space and family practicalities over track-wanabee-ness ? Seems ok to me.

[Tigger2050]

Trophy Husband said:

I'm sorry. I'm with havoc on this one. The Octavia is the Nando's of the car world. All top show. Fur coat and no knickers. Lace curtains and no dinner. If I walked out of my house at 0600hrs in the morning and was greeted with one on the drive it wouldn't make me feel like I was lucky, I'd probably harrumph, I may even have a little sick in my throat. It would make me feel like I'd compromised (which it would have been). For another £2/day ( 60% of a flat white in Costa) I'm sure I could be in something far more thrilling/appealing to my sense of carness and wellbeing with nearing 600 litres of space. If I couldn't I'd just leave my 8 year old home alone or get him a train ticket. He's dead sensible and knows about stranger danger. For the Skoda owners that last bit was a joke.

Dull, dull, dull. When I see a dull car I think dull owner. I know that's not true of course but I wouldn't want to run the risk of people's first impression being that and having to fight my way back! Maybe that's wrong but I just can't shake it. Sorry. Shoot me.

All of course just my humble opinion.

#

So what cars do you walk out to in the morning?

[DukeDickson]

daytonavrs said:

Well I think people should take their rose tints off if they find Octavia dull. Seems like an irony bypass has been performed.
A lot of this segment is all dull in a sea of dullness. This is whether its Golf R, Cupra , BMW 140i or what have you.

If you wouldn't rather have something like a Jaguar F or NIssan 370Z, or Porsche 911 etc then you are probably dead above the neck anyway. Chances you are were already priotising practicality for some reason right ?

These are PRACTICAL cars we are talking about. If they get you hot, sorry but you are a sad bd.
I find it desperately sad that some are trying to top trump in what is a very ordinairy segment of the market

Reality calling - This ain't superbike levels of performance we talking about here guys and not Ducati 911 esque styling either
I hung my bike 0-60 in 3 seconds keys up but now that is proper levels of excitement. What we talking about here is some midly fast cars with very very modest styling, lets not forget.

And in this the Octavia is the more modest /honest and pushes its space and family practicalities over track-wanabee-ness ? Seems ok to me.

A decent part of me agrees with this, but a slug doesn't.

Not - The 370Z is a fair amount of extra running costs for little discernable benefit in the real world, for 99% of people & the Jag is quite compromised & possibly quite reliant on looks outside of V8 country (maybe in there as well). I thought about the Nissan for a while, but couldn't see the point.

Yes - They're not special, either of them, like many similar cars, but in a world of traffic, roadworks and so on, both have a little bit of something for that 1-2% of the time when it works, with a healthy dose of day to day reality. Yes, for a tiny proportion these things may not matter, but for pretty much everyone who might consider either, they do.

I would say the Hyundai looks a bit odd & to my eyes the interior looks iffy, but overall neither is exactly a bad choice.


I don't have a bike that does 0-60 in 3 or less, but probably get as much enjoyment now from one that goes as fast as my legs can manage, which is probably at least as or more than pedalling anything with an engine in more or less constant roadworks, traffic and speed restrictions/money generation/pissing cash up the wall.

Not ideal, but...

[aaron_2000]

Tigger2050 said:

Trophy Husband said:

I'm sorry. I'm with havoc on this one. The Octavia is the Nando's of the car world. All top show. Fur coat and no knickers. Lace curtains and no dinner. If I walked out of my house at 0600hrs in the morning and was greeted with one on the drive it wouldn't make me feel like I was lucky, I'd probably harrumph, I may even have a little sick in my throat. It would make me feel like I'd compromised (which it would have been). For another £2/day ( 60% of a flat white in Costa) I'm sure I could be in something far more thrilling/appealing to my sense of carness and wellbeing with nearing 600 litres of space. If I couldn't I'd just leave my 8 year old home alone or get him a train ticket. He's dead sensible and knows about stranger danger. For the Skoda owners that last bit was a joke.

Dull, dull, dull. When I see a dull car I think dull owner. I know that's not true of course but I wouldn't want to run the risk of people's first impression being that and having to fight my way back! Maybe that's wrong but I just can't shake it. Sorry. Shoot me.

All of course just my humble opinion.

#

So what cars do you walk out to in the morning?

Careful, you're asking one of the PH powerfully built directors. Probably.

[Trophy Husband]

aaron_2000 said:

Tigger2050 said:

Trophy Husband said:

I'm sorry. I'm with havoc on this one. The Octavia is the Nando's of the car world. All top show. Fur coat and no knickers. Lace curtains and no dinner. If I walked out of my house at 0600hrs in the morning and was greeted with one on the drive it wouldn't make me feel like I was lucky, I'd probably harrumph, I may even have a little sick in my throat. It would make me feel like I'd compromised (which it would have been). For another £2/day ( 60% of a flat white in Costa) I'm sure I could be in something far more thrilling/appealing to my sense of carness and wellbeing with nearing 600 litres of space. If I couldn't I'd just leave my 8 year old home alone or get him a train ticket. He's dead sensible and knows about stranger danger. For the Skoda owners that last bit was a joke.

Dull, dull, dull. When I see a dull car I think dull owner. I know that's not true of course but I wouldn't want to run the risk of people's first impression being that and having to fight my way back! Maybe that's wrong but I just can't shake it. Sorry. Shoot me.

All of course just my humble opinion.

#

So what cars do you walk out to in the morning?

Careful, you're asking one of the PH powerfully built directors. Probably.

Not a Skoda which is all that matters.

[aaron_2000]

Trophy Husband said:

aaron_2000 said:

Tigger2050 said:

Trophy Husband said:

I'm sorry. I'm with havoc on this one. The Octavia is the Nando's of the car world. All top show. Fur coat and no knickers. Lace curtains and no dinner. If I walked out of my house at 0600hrs in the morning and was greeted with one on the drive it wouldn't make me feel like I was lucky, I'd probably harrumph, I may even have a little sick in my throat. It would make me feel like I'd compromised (which it would have been). For another £2/day ( 60% of a flat white in Costa) I'm sure I could be in something far more thrilling/appealing to my sense of carness and wellbeing with nearing 600 litres of space. If I couldn't I'd just leave my 8 year old home alone or get him a train ticket. He's dead sensible and knows about stranger danger. For the Skoda owners that last bit was a joke.

Dull, dull, dull. When I see a dull car I think dull owner. I know that's not true of course but I wouldn't want to run the risk of people's first impression being that and having to fight my way back! Maybe that's wrong but I just can't shake it. Sorry. Shoot me.

All of course just my humble opinion.

#

So what cars do you walk out to in the morning?

Careful, you're asking one of the PH powerfully built directors. Probably.

Not a Skoda which is all that matters.

How much would I love to sit down to dinner with someone like you.

[daytonavrs]

Probably similar outlook to those people who overspend on their groceries so bad they need the telly people to come in to give advise and then are made to do blind taste tests and will swear blind their "product" is better......which is when they prefer the cheap one because once branding it removed they really haven't a clue....desperately sad

[Trophy Husband]

aaron_2000 said:

Trophy Husband said:

aaron_2000 said:

Tigger2050 said:

Trophy Husband said:

I'm sorry. I'm with havoc on this one. The Octavia is the Nando's of the car world. All top show. Fur coat and no knickers. Lace curtains and no dinner. If I walked out of my house at 0600hrs in the morning and was greeted with one on the drive it wouldn't make me feel like I was lucky, I'd probably harrumph, I may even have a little sick in my throat. It would make me feel like I'd compromised (which it would have been). For another £2/day ( 60% of a flat white in Costa) I'm sure I could be in something far more thrilling/appealing to my sense of carness and wellbeing with nearing 600 litres of space. If I couldn't I'd just leave my 8 year old home alone or get him a train ticket. He's dead sensible and knows about stranger danger. For the Skoda owners that last bit was a joke.

Dull, dull, dull. When I see a dull car I think dull owner. I know that's not true of course but I wouldn't want to run the risk of people's first impression being that and having to fight my way back! Maybe that's wrong but I just can't shake it. Sorry. Shoot me.

All of course just my humble opinion.

#

So what cars do you walk out to in the morning?

Careful, you're asking one of the PH powerfully built directors. Probably.

Not a Skoda which is all that matters.

How much would I love to sit down to dinner with someone like you.

I'm flattered! Although you're probably not my type. I'm good fun with not a hint of the dull about me. Hence my allergy to Skoda

[aaron_2000]

Trophy Husband said:

aaron_2000 said:

Trophy Husband said:

aaron_2000 said:

Tigger2050 said:

Trophy Husband said:

I'm sorry. I'm with havoc on this one. The Octavia is the Nando's of the car world. All top show. Fur coat and no knickers. Lace curtains and no dinner. If I walked out of my house at 0600hrs in the morning and was greeted with one on the drive it wouldn't make me feel like I was lucky, I'd probably harrumph, I may even have a little sick in my throat. It would make me feel like I'd compromised (which it would have been). For another £2/day ( 60% of a flat white in Costa) I'm sure I could be in something far more thrilling/appealing to my sense of carness and wellbeing with nearing 600 litres of space. If I couldn't I'd just leave my 8 year old home alone or get him a train ticket. He's dead sensible and knows about stranger danger. For the Skoda owners that last bit was a joke.

Dull, dull, dull. When I see a dull car I think dull owner. I know that's not true of course but I wouldn't want to run the risk of people's first impression being that and having to fight my way back! Maybe that's wrong but I just can't shake it. Sorry. Shoot me.

All of course just my humble opinion.

#

So what cars do you walk out to in the morning?

Careful, you're asking one of the PH powerfully built directors. Probably.

Not a Skoda which is all that matters.

How much would I love to sit down to dinner with someone like you.

I'm flattered! Although you're probably not my type. I'm good fun with not a hint of the dull about me. Hence my allergy to Skoda

What a cringy sentence. It's always the ones that don't have their garages listed that say st like that

[Trophy Husband]

aaron_2000 said:

What a cringy sentence. It's always the ones that don't have their garages listed that say st like that

Oh come on sunshine. All just a bit of fun. I just don't like the cynicaI brand that is Skoda that's all.
I drive a Ranger Wildtrak 3.2 Auto (I live in the Snowdonia National Park so, ironically, I have it for practical reasons!) and have a late plate original Clio Trophy in storage which I've had since 2007 IIRC. I couldn't possibly tell you what my wife drives as you would have my trousers down on that one!

Please forgive me.

[aaron_2000]

Trophy Husband said:

aaron_2000 said:

What a cringy sentence. It's always the ones that don't have their garages listed that say st like that

Oh come on sunshine. All just a bit of fun. I just don't like the cynicaI brand that is Skoda that's all.
I drive a Ranger Wildtrak 3.2 Auto (I live in the Snowdonia National Park so, ironically, I have it for practical reasons!) and have a late plate original Clio Trophy in storage which I've had since 2007 IIRC. I couldn't possibly tell you what my wife drives as you would have my trousers down on that one!

Please forgive me.

I'd probably take the Octavia.

[Trophy Husband]

aaron_2000 said:

Trophy Husband said:

aaron_2000 said:

What a cringy sentence. It's always the ones that don't have their garages listed that say st like that

Oh come on sunshine. All just a bit of fun. I just don't like the cynicaI brand that is Skoda that's all.
I drive a Ranger Wildtrak 3.2 Auto (I live in the Snowdonia National Park so, ironically, I have it for practical reasons!) and have a late plate original Clio Trophy in storage which I've had since 2007 IIRC. I couldn't possibly tell you what my wife drives as you would have my trousers down on that one!

Please forgive me.

I'd probably take the Octavia.

Wouldn't get me home in the Winter and the farmer would laugh at me. He's a Land Rover man.

[daytonavrs]

You don't like the cynical brand that is Skoda ?
Skoda itself is a very hard working company but only a derivative of VW. Are you sure you aren't really perhaps directing that apethy more towards VW itself ? If not do you care to explain yourself properly ?
And you somehow think driving a serial-killer-special Ranger makes you more interesting than owning a Skoda ?
I'm like an exhaust - Baffled!

I suppose at least you have brought this topic to a crescendo - how to make 2 very "ordinairy" cars seem suddenly far more interesting than a 4x4 thread shocking conclusion

[havoc]

daytonavrs said:

Well I think people should take their rose tints off if they find Octavia dull. Seems like an irony bypass has been performed.
A lot of this segment is all dull in a sea of dullness. This is whether its Golf R, Cupra , BMW 140i or what have you.

If you wouldn't rather have something like a Jaguar F or NIssan 370Z, or Porsche 911 etc then you are probably dead above the neck anyway. Chances you are were already priotising practicality for some reason right ?

I'm with the poster 10 posts above - a fair chunk of me agrees...BUT...

...the Golf R is definitely more interesting than the vRS (wife owned one for 2 years, I owned vRS230 for 2 weeks alongside it...boot space aside there's no contest). And anything with a proper diff is also probably more interesting than a vRS, as the 230 diff has clearly been neutered to protect the VAG hierarchy (which is a genuine shame).

It does nothing wrong...it's just if you're comparing vs the best "normal" * hot-hatches, the vRS has got very little chassis adjustability, very little throttle-steerability and in 19" form feels too stiff without the handling benefits stiffness should bring. Like Audi 10 years ago. If you can live with the looks either the FK2 or FK8 CTR would be far more entertaining for similar running costs/depreciation (and better ride in the FK8), while if you can live with the build quality a MeganeSport would definitely be a better steer/drive.

...although in the interests of balance I haven't driven a Hyundai yet, all I'm going on is the reputation in the press.



Jag F - I think I'd rather have the vRS...at least that's an honest car that does exactly what you expect. 370Z lovely but rear viz is woeful and it feels heavier than it should (just like the F-Type). 911...well, yeah, who wouldn't...



* i.e. ones without the boot space!

[blearyeyedboy]

havoc said:

I'm with the poster 10 posts above - a fair chunk of me agrees...BUT...

...the Golf R is definitely more interesting than the vRS (wife owned one for 2 years, I owned vRS230 for 2 weeks alongside it...boot space aside there's no contest).

Intriguing. I'd always thought of the Haldex MQB cars as much the same but with more garnish, rather than a different experience.

Agree on your assessment of other hot hatches though.

[daytonavrs]

Surely any differences between models doesn't take much imagination to investigate the VCDS settings for haldex ( for Cupra and R differences, the octavia never got it except, on diesel)

I will add though the stage 1 on the petrol Octavia is like night and day, it turned quite a numb driving experience for me ( having had experience of superbikes but recently given up) into something far more edgy and worthwhile of the hype.
Its never going to make it an R slayer but with 300hp from stage1 only it must be bridging gaps between the standard car and the i30N too

I wonder what turbo they using for the i30N ? Something like the IS38 ?

Edited by daytonavrs on Tuesday 19th February 00:16