Porsche 10% Brexit surcharge

[Rawwr]

Rick1.8t said:

I believe I just heard confirmed that in a no-deal situation cars imported from the EU will see just over 10% import duty. I wonder how much this would dent Audi / Mercedes / BMW's market in the UK - Will people care / notice their PCP deal going from £400 to £440 per month?

I confidently predict that not a single f*ck will be given about the 10% increase. It won't change peoples' buying habits. Hell, BMW, Audi and Mercedes could probably all bump their prices by 10% now and nobody would care. People will either persist, leave off a couple of options or go for a lower model. These manufacturers spend a lot of time and money into instilling brand awareness and loyalty, and a 10% bump isn't going to shake that ground.

[DonkeyApple]

silentbrown said:

Anyhoo, back to the actual topic, May's "plan" is that if we leave with no deal, WTO tariffs on imported cars will apply. But not on components.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-47551266

Back to supplying cars without wing mirrors attached.

Dear Sir,

Thank you for your recent purchase of the 911 kit car. Your two components will be delivered shortly along with full and clear instructions on how to connect component A ‘the car’ to component B ‘the wing mirrors’.

[CABC]

DonkeyApple said:

Back to supplying cars without wing mirrors attached.

Dear Sir,

Thank you for your recent purchase of the 911 kit car. Your two components will be delivered shortly along with full and clear instructions on how to connect component A ‘the car’ to component B ‘the wing mirrors’.

wasn't it in the US where parts were supplied with DISassembly instructions to avoid tariffs?

[HM-2]

TobyTR said:

That graph shows overall crime has decreased in 2017 from record highs in 2015 and 2016

Despite the migrants share of the population increasing, the 2017 recorded rate is below that of any point pre-2008. If there was a direct causal relationship between crime rates and pure immigration numbers, you would expect to see a progressive increase, not an 11% decline. It's almost as if the German government spent two years accepting refugees with little planning or preparation in how to deal with the influx, before enacting coherent social policies that massively reduced the socio-economic pressures that were leading to increased criminality...

Aaron's contention was the crime rate had increased in line with immigration, which is categorically wrong.

TobyTR said:

So overall crime has decreased in 2017, migrant crime still trends disproportionately high

Minorities are always disproportionately represented in crime figures. Interestingly, your graphs also seem to reinforce my statements, in that 2017 sees no increase (in fact, a slight decline) in migrants as a proportion of suspects, despite the number of migrants increasing- ergo, both an outright and proportional decline in crime committed by migrants.

TobyTR said:

Unfortunately, socioeconomic deprivation is a by-product of refugees/asylum seekers etc;

It certainly goes hand in hand, but I question whether migrants are a direct cause as opposed to government policies towards migrants (IE limited integration, segregation into effective ghettoes, denial of opportunities to work etc).

[Roger Irrelevant]

CABC said:

DonkeyApple said:

Back to supplying cars without wing mirrors attached.

Dear Sir,

Thank you for your recent purchase of the 911 kit car. Your two components will be delivered shortly along with full and clear instructions on how to connect component A ‘the car’ to component B ‘the wing mirrors’.

wasn't it in the US where parts were supplied with DISassembly instructions to avoid tariffs?

In the prohibition era Californian vineyards did a roaring trade in 'grape bricks' that came with specific instructions not to place the brick in a gallon of water and leave for two weeks or else you'd end up with a gallon of wine...bet you didn't expect to learn that on a thread about the price of Porsches!

[silentbrown]

Rawwr said:

I confidently predict that not a single f*ck will be given about the 10% increase. It won't change peoples' buying habits. Hell, BMW, Audi and Mercedes could probably all bump their prices by 10% now and nobody would care. People will either persist, leave off a couple of options or go for a lower model. These manufacturers spend a lot of time and money into instilling brand awareness and loyalty, and a 10% bump isn't going to shake that ground.

More to the point, there's going to be very little choice of tariff-free cars..

[PantsFire]

In a no deal situation the pound will drop hard and tariffs will be applied, also manufacturers will put any addition import costs on the buyer, I'd bet a Porsche will cost about 30% more in cash, then there's finance, well finance just got a hell of a lot more risky so all those low/zero rates are gone too, so yeah, the industry and consumer are going to feel it.

Edited by PantsFire on Wednesday 13th March 11:34

[Milemuncher]

My reading on the new vehicle tariffs published this morning was that they were actually a slight reduction from the current rate. Have I misread that?

[ashleyman]

Rick1.8t said:

I believe I just heard confirmed that in a no-deal situation cars imported from the EU will see just over 10% import duty. I wonder how much this would dent Audi / Mercedes / BMW's market in the UK - Will people care / notice their PCP deal going from £400 to £440 per month?}

Interestingly, not sure if this has been previously discussed they would scrap import duty on most other products from outside of the EU, does anybody know the current import duty the EU charge on import of cars? - I think its the same at around 10% though I cant see us getting our imported Fords or Nissans at a 10% reduced rate in this situation.

Edited by Rick1.8t on Wednesday 13th March 09:41

Yep. I said this on another thread. Some manufacturers are asking buyers to sign a waiver that states they understand that it a no deal scenario if the cost of the car is to increase because of import costs than the purchaser agrees to pay these costs. If they want to walk away from the car they will surrender their deposit. The only one I spoke to who would offer the deposit back in full if you decided not to take the car was Volkswagen.

I don't think it'll have much effect on people ordering and purchasing new cars AFTER no deal is announced, but it might have some impact on people who have already ordered and are waiting for their cars who have been asked to sign the waiver.

Obviously that's for import tariffs going up. I doubt manufacturers will discount vehicles if costs are actually lowered!

[DonkeyApple]

PantsFire said:

In a no deal situation the pound will drop hard and tariffs will be applied, also manufacturers will put any addition import costs on the buyer, a Porsche will cost 30% more in cash, then there's finance, well finance just got a hell of a lot more risky so all those low/zero rates are gone too, so yeah, the industry and consumer are going to feel it.

Hard Brexit is pretty much priced in to the fx markets. Besides, the Euro won’t go undamaged so the change between GBP and the EURO is even less likely to be significant.

What are the risks of finance? Arguably two fold, the default of the consumer and the mispricing of the predicted future value of the product. Well, there might be a slight rise in the default risk of some consumers but the prices of products 3 years out is likely to firm rather than falter if current prices rise.

There is also no such thing as zero rate interest. It’s a marketing term whereby the true interest rate is implicit within the cost of the goods. The concept of ‘zero rates’ is ultimately wholly independent of what real interest rates are.

[anonymous-user]

What you lot have got to see here is that if Steptoe and his Labour party offer a second referendum and hard Brexiters keep voting down everything Mrs May offers we run the real risk of having Steptoe as PM if an election is called which is a nightmare scenario.
Most people I speak to are sick to the teeth of it now, if them tts had gone along with Mrs May last night we could of made steps to move forward, the whole saga and bitterness has gone on too long now.

[silentbrown]

ashleyman said:

Some manufacturers are asking buyers to sign a waiver that states they understand that it a no deal scenario if the cost of the car is to increase because of import costs than the purchaser agrees to pay these costs. If they want to walk away from the car they will surrender their deposit. The only one I spoke to who would offer the deposit back in full if you decided not to take the car was Volkswagen.

Only Porsche asking for waivers so far. As VW aren't asking for waivers, standard T's and C's would apply which allows them to raise prices, but allows you to then cancel.

[ashleyman]

silentbrown said:

ashleyman said:

Some manufacturers are asking buyers to sign a waiver that states they understand that it a no deal scenario if the cost of the car is to increase because of import costs than the purchaser agrees to pay these costs. If they want to walk away from the car they will surrender their deposit. The only one I spoke to who would offer the deposit back in full if you decided not to take the car was Volkswagen.

Only Porsche asking for waivers so far. As VW aren't asking for waivers, standard T's and C's would apply which allows them to raise prices, but allows you to then cancel.

Volkswagen and Audi both asked me to sign a waiver. In the end we bought a stock car to avoid any price changes.

Vertu Volkswagen were the only VW dealer who stated my deposit would be refundable in the event of a price rise.

[powerstroke]

silentbrown said:

Anyhoo, back to the actual topic, May's "plan" is that if we leave with no deal, WTO tariffs on imported cars will apply. But not on components.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-47551266

That is very good news and sensible I'm shocked they are thinking about manufacturing , very welcome ...

[silentbrown]

ashleyman said:

Volkswagen and Audi both asked me to sign a waiver. In the end we bought a stock car to avoid any price changes.

Vertu Volkswagen were the only VW dealer who stated my deposit would be refundable in the event of a price rise.

That'll teach me to rely on the news, then

I guess some dealers are doing this off their own bat, because they'd get left holding the built-to-order car rather than the manufacturer. Porsche I can understand, as presumably a lot more of their sales are built to order.

[ashleyman]

silentbrown said:

ashleyman said:

Volkswagen and Audi both asked me to sign a waiver. In the end we bought a stock car to avoid any price changes.

Vertu Volkswagen were the only VW dealer who stated my deposit would be refundable in the event of a price rise.

That'll teach me to rely on the news, then

I guess some dealers are doing this off their own bat, because they'd get left holding the built-to-order car rather than the manufacturer. Porsche I can understand, as presumably a lot more of their sales are built to order.

I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not but I'm just posting what happened when I was trying to buy a car last week.

It seemed like the information I was being told was different dealer to dealer and sometimes changed between salesmen in the same dealership.

Volkswagen said prices were going up between £350 - £750 on April 1st regardless of Brexit as is standard practice. If I purchased now I would pay the list price of the car agreed before the rises, however I would be liable for any extra import fees as the brand and dealer were not going to pay for those - here the need for a waiver.

Then you had other dealerships asking you to sign the waiver but you could walk away and get your deposit back if you were unhappy with the final price.

The uncertainty surrounding what we would actually end up paying and the real prospect of being left with without a vehicle and potential loss of our deposit is what pushed us into securing a stock car now. We pick up on Friday and don't need to deal with waivers, or extra fees.

[silentbrown]

ashleyman said:

I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not

Absolutely not. First hand experience usually beats news articles on stuff like this. And buying from stock absolutely make sense now.

However, the point of the waiver is to "waive your rights" in the standard Ts and Cs to withdraw from the contract in the event of a price change:
Normally a dealer will ALWAYS have the right to raise the price, and you ALWAYS have the right to cancel and get your deposit back if he does. They won't guarantee the price is fixed, regardless of Brexit.

So a waiver which doesn't waive your rights to cancel doesn't really make sense. I suspect the sales guys are in the dark about this as much as anyone else!

Did you actually get as far as seeing the waiver and refusing it, or was it just in the preliminary discussions?

[RobM77]

powerstroke said:

silentbrown said:

Anyhoo, back to the actual topic, May's "plan" is that if we leave with no deal, WTO tariffs on imported cars will apply. But not on components.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-47551266

That is very good news and sensible I'm shocked they are thinking about manufacturing , very welcome ...

To be fair they're probably thinking about the massive tax hole left if car manufacturing leaves the UK, rather than actually caring about people's jobs. Increasing taxes never makes a government popular!

[ashleyman]

silentbrown said:

ashleyman said:

I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not

Absolutely not. First hand experience usually beats news articles on stuff like this. And buying from stock absolutely make sense now.

However, the point of the waiver is to "waive your rights" in the standard Ts and Cs to withdraw from the contract in the event of a price change:
Normally a dealer will ALWAYS have the right to raise the price, and you ALWAYS have the right to cancel and get your deposit back if he does. They won't guarantee the price is fixed, regardless of Brexit.

So a waiver which doesn't waive your rights to cancel doesn't really make sense. I suspect the sales guys are in the dark about this as much as anyone else!

Did you actually get as far as seeing the waiver and refusing it, or was it just in the preliminary discussions?

Ok cool. Sorry, text is hard to interpret sometimes.

I've just been reading the emails and they're basically saying you agree to pay any price increases that happen in a 'No Deal' Brexit scenario and if you want to pull out of the purchase you will forfeit your deposit. Like I said, Vertu was the only dealer who said I could have my deposit back although with todays news that might be different.

I never got to see the waiver to sign as it was all just discussion. I am collecting the stock Polo we purchased on Friday so if it's of interest I could always ask to see the waiver for new orders?

Edited by ashleyman on Wednesday 13th March 15:16

[Oilchange]

PantsFire said:

In a no deal situation the pound will drop hard and tariffs will be applied, also manufacturers will put any addition import costs on the buyer, I'd bet a Porsche will cost about 30% more in cash, then there's finance, well finance just got a hell of a lot more risky so all those low/zero rates are gone too, so yeah, the industry and consumer are going to feel it.

Edited by PantsFire on Wednesday 13th March 11:34

Liar, liar!