RE: Honda Swindon plant set to close
Discussion
borat52 said:
It’s simple,
Nope. It really isn't. 350m splashed down the side of a bus is simple. In that it was simply a LIE.borat52 said:
European car sales are down,
That's ambiguous, at best. Do you mean;The sale of European built cars? i.e. Honda Civic - made in the EU, jap manufacturer?
Is that in the context of the EU? Or the whole world?
The sale of cars made by a Euro maufacturer; Merc M class - EU manufacturer, made in Alabama
Or the cumulative amount of new cars, irrespective of where they were made, registered in Euorpe?
And how are they down? Relative to what? European sales? Worldwide sales? This Month/ Quater / Year / Decade? And how does that compare with their domestic market?
borat52 said:
If this decision was in any way brexit related they would wait to see what the future relationship of the U.K. with the EU is before going to this expense.
Nope. Plenty of Manufacturers and businesses have started to move as a consequence of brexit uncertainty. If you as a Manufacturer, saw that you would be hit with a 10% tariff as a consequence of a no deal, you wouldn't take the chance. They've waited. But with an alternative free trade agreement with the EU in place, why would they stay? It would be sensible if they had a tariff free exprt deal to the EU for their cars built here as they'd save on shipping their product to the EU & beyond plus the cost of a building a new factory / workforce. However, with an export tariff that quickly becomes untenable.
borat52 said:
I’d wager the timing is political, wouldn’t surprise me in the slightest that as part of the EU/Japan trade agreement the EU persuaded Japanese companies to announce U.K. closures right on brexit date to weaken the resolve of the public.
"We" voted to leave and then Gollum invoked A.50 You can't blame the EU for seeking to protect its own interests. borat52 said:
That’s the sort of clandestine tomfoolery the EU revels in.
Is it? Do you have any actual examples of this? Because what you've suggested qualifies as neither "clandestine" or "tomfoolery".People talk about taking back our sovereignty like the EU is the equivalent of the Galactic Empire imposing draconian law and subjugating the UK to draconian ridiculousness.
https://fullfact.org/europe/eu-facts-behind-claims-uk-influence/ said:
Official EU voting records* show that the British government has voted ‘No’ to laws passed at EU level on 56 occasions, abstained 70 times, and voted ‘Yes’ 2,466 times since 1999, according to UK in a Changing Europe Fellows Sara Hagemann and Simon Hix.
In other words, UK ministers were on the “winning side” 95% of the time, abstained 3% of the time, and were on the losing side 2%.
In other words, UK ministers were on the “winning side” 95% of the time, abstained 3% of the time, and were on the losing side 2%.
Edited by Zombie on Tuesday 19th February 02:44
Zombie said:
Omega1987 said:
Very dissapointing news and sad to see some remainers gleefully using this as a political football when workers and their families now face a period of hardship.
As opposed to Brexs
ter's gleefully calling Remainers names and shouting "Project fear" Ad-nauseam for the last 2 years?I am not gleeful. I am f
g apocalyptic with the Politicians who lied, the leave campaigners who lied cheated and ultimately subverted what was supposed to be a democratic vote and, yes, I am bloody angry with the halfwits who swallowed their BS and voted for brexit.The same halfwits and berks who have subsequently bleated "project fear", "brexit means brexit", "will of the people", "it's done, we just need to get on with it" in spite of the promised unicorns and rainbows they initially voted for vanishing into a fog of blue passports and intangible sovereignty.
And now that "project fear" is fast becoming demonstrable fact, Remainers are "gleeful"?
I'm inclined to suggest you move on in short, jerking movements.
As for "face a period of hardship" WTF else do you think those workers will do? Walk into another manufacturing job? Where, exactly? The promised Unicorn Factory 'down road that unfreezes chlorine washed Moog and Marty for the UK's sovereign edification?
Or maybe Dyson's new red white and blue tartan paint plant? I'm sure there will be a Brexit Celebration Edition Vacuum on offer - with a Union Jack colour scheme and patriotic fake news (imprinted) filter.
Better yet, they could tend the bar in Wetherspoons?
"One pint of rightwing spam and nostalgia with an info-zine of fascist fantasy coming right up, Sir"
But is this land of opportunity likely to present itself before or after a skilled workforce have lost their homes?
Most will be 3 months (paychecks) away from having their homes repossessed. That hardship you so willingly dismiss will be both prolonged and sustained, you utter cretin.
Edited by Zombie on Tuesday 19th February 02:37
Omega1987 said:
Thank you Zombie for being the archetypal loud mouthed, irrational, name calling remainer who has lept on this news to further you're dead end cause.
After 2 years of archetypal, loudmouthed, irrational brexiteers calling the other side remoaners and shouting project fear, you're now the snowflake? Brexit is a dead end. Brexit is emphatically irrational.
But if you believe in it, I invite you to wander off to Swindon and explain to those affected how their "period of hardship" will be somehow worthwhile. Or patriotic.
Zombie said:
Omega1987 said:
Thank you Zombie for being the archetypal loud mouthed, irrational, name calling remainer who has lept on this news to further you're dead end cause.
After 2 years of archetypal, loudmouthed, irrational brexiteers calling the other side remoaners and shouting project fear, you're now the snowflake? Brexit is a dead end. Brexit is emphatically irrational.
But if you believe in it, I invite you to wander off to Swindon and explain to those affected how their "period of hardship" will be somehow worthwhile. Or patriotic.
Please tell me that tow rope is for towing purposes?
I'm jumping in at the deep end here.
There may well be Brexit factors, for sure. But could it not also be down to:
1) Honda losing their market share in Europe to the Koreans in a relatively really, really short space of time, due in part to building off-piste cars that are unwanted in the Euro market (current and last gen Civics raise your hands). This isn't helped by the cars being pretty medicore compared to the competition (Ford, Mazda, Vauxhall, VW)
2) The UK's, in particular, insatiable and bizarre appetite for 'prestige' German brands (Audi, BMW, Merc, that between them have a huge percentage of the UK market now) that mean all other manufacturer's are really up against it. Honda, as a middle of the road market position, have been hit hard for the past 5 years in particular.
There may well be Brexit factors, for sure. But could it not also be down to:
1) Honda losing their market share in Europe to the Koreans in a relatively really, really short space of time, due in part to building off-piste cars that are unwanted in the Euro market (current and last gen Civics raise your hands). This isn't helped by the cars being pretty medicore compared to the competition (Ford, Mazda, Vauxhall, VW)
2) The UK's, in particular, insatiable and bizarre appetite for 'prestige' German brands (Audi, BMW, Merc, that between them have a huge percentage of the UK market now) that mean all other manufacturer's are really up against it. Honda, as a middle of the road market position, have been hit hard for the past 5 years in particular.
uncler said:
I'm jumping in at the deep end here.
There may well be Brexit factors, for sure. But could it not also be down to:
1) Honda losing their market share in Europe to the Koreans in a relatively really, really short space of time, due in part to building off-piste cars that are unwanted in the Euro market (current and last gen Civics raise your hands). This isn't helped by the cars being pretty medicore compared to the competition (Ford, Mazda, Vauxhall, VW)
2) The UK's, in particular, insatiable and bizarre appetite for 'prestige' German brands (Audi, BMW, Merc, that between them have a huge percentage of the UK market now) that mean all other manufacturer's are really up against it. Honda, as a middle of the road market position, have been hit hard for the past 5 years in particular.
Your making good rational points which some other contributors should adhere to rather than some diatribe about Brexit all the time.There may well be Brexit factors, for sure. But could it not also be down to:
1) Honda losing their market share in Europe to the Koreans in a relatively really, really short space of time, due in part to building off-piste cars that are unwanted in the Euro market (current and last gen Civics raise your hands). This isn't helped by the cars being pretty medicore compared to the competition (Ford, Mazda, Vauxhall, VW)
2) The UK's, in particular, insatiable and bizarre appetite for 'prestige' German brands (Audi, BMW, Merc, that between them have a huge percentage of the UK market now) that mean all other manufacturer's are really up against it. Honda, as a middle of the road market position, have been hit hard for the past 5 years in particular.
uncler said:
I'm jumping in at the deep end here.
There may well be Brexit factors, for sure. But could it not also be down to:
1) Honda losing their market share in Europe to the Koreans in a relatively really, really short space of time, due in part to building off-piste cars that are unwanted in the Euro market (current and last gen Civics raise your hands). This isn't helped by the cars being pretty medicore compared to the competition (Ford, Mazda, Vauxhall, VW)
2) The UK's, in particular, insatiable and bizarre appetite for 'prestige' German brands (Audi, BMW, Merc, that between them have a huge percentage of the UK market now) that mean all other manufacturer's are really up against it. Honda, as a middle of the road market position, have been hit hard for the past 5 years in particular.
Don't be coming on PH with common sense and logic...There may well be Brexit factors, for sure. But could it not also be down to:
1) Honda losing their market share in Europe to the Koreans in a relatively really, really short space of time, due in part to building off-piste cars that are unwanted in the Euro market (current and last gen Civics raise your hands). This isn't helped by the cars being pretty medicore compared to the competition (Ford, Mazda, Vauxhall, VW)
2) The UK's, in particular, insatiable and bizarre appetite for 'prestige' German brands (Audi, BMW, Merc, that between them have a huge percentage of the UK market now) that mean all other manufacturer's are really up against it. Honda, as a middle of the road market position, have been hit hard for the past 5 years in particular.
expat47 said:
I wouldn´t be surprised if the majority of emloyees at Swindon had voted for brexit.........
why would you say that? Like many areas it was a leave outcome - but no data to suggest the employees were biased one way or another.Results for Swindon Swindon
Leave 54.7% 61,745 votes
Remain 45.3% 51,220 votes
Edited by oilit on Tuesday 19th February 05:20
JerryF said:
How sad, it's time we supported industry on our shores.
Fed up of reading articles on German cars......when we are in recession and can't afford to pay our mortgages than maybe we will all wake up. We can't complain about Nissan, JLR and Honda if we don't buy their products.
JLR don't make enough products that people want to buy in significant volume. Jaguar especially. Pointless blaming the consumer there Fed up of reading articles on German cars......when we are in recession and can't afford to pay our mortgages than maybe we will all wake up. We can't complain about Nissan, JLR and Honda if we don't buy their products.
JerryF said:
How sad, it's time we supported industry on our shores.
Fed up of reading articles on German cars......when we are in recession and can't afford to pay our mortgages than maybe we will all wake up. We can't complain about Nissan, JLR and Honda if we don't buy their products.
JLR don't make enough products that people want to buy in significant volume. Jaguar especially. Pointless blaming the consumer there Fed up of reading articles on German cars......when we are in recession and can't afford to pay our mortgages than maybe we will all wake up. We can't complain about Nissan, JLR and Honda if we don't buy their products.
There goes another. The Japanese will of course politely talk about the Swindon workforce being great and highly valued but seismic changes in the market have forced it to re-evaluate its business and Swindon has to close but they will do everything they can to support workers find new employment.
MP's will jump up and down and the Union will call it a punch in the chest for loyal workers.
Brexit will get only the slightest of mentions, as one of a number of 'contributing factors' to the decision.
You could write the press release from here.
I step back though and look across the land for signs of these bright shiny new opportunities that Brexit is meant to deliver and see... well nothing. Lots of companies 're-evaluating' and downsizing and politely exiting.
Our brexiteer MPs dismiss this all as project fear and point to a world of future wealth and prosperity. So far, I think we can look forward to that with the Faeroe Islands and about three other global super powers.
Yes, I voted remain and regret Brexit and feel utterly hopeless that we can do anything about it now. I wish someone could give me something as tangibly positive about Brexit as the very tangible decisions we're starting to see every week from Honda/Ford/JLR and the list of other big hitting employers shouting from the roof tops of impending doom.
Sorry, plonkers like the Brexiteer ministers who haven't run anything much more than a social club, and the 'voice of the people' on some miserable high street in Wigan might have a view but I have zero confidence that their hopes are anything more than rosy tinted glasses and wishful thinking. Real Jobs Are Already Being Lost and our political parties are tearing themselves apart.
Is this really the vision of the future we all hoped for???
MP's will jump up and down and the Union will call it a punch in the chest for loyal workers.
Brexit will get only the slightest of mentions, as one of a number of 'contributing factors' to the decision.
You could write the press release from here.
I step back though and look across the land for signs of these bright shiny new opportunities that Brexit is meant to deliver and see... well nothing. Lots of companies 're-evaluating' and downsizing and politely exiting.
Our brexiteer MPs dismiss this all as project fear and point to a world of future wealth and prosperity. So far, I think we can look forward to that with the Faeroe Islands and about three other global super powers.
Yes, I voted remain and regret Brexit and feel utterly hopeless that we can do anything about it now. I wish someone could give me something as tangibly positive about Brexit as the very tangible decisions we're starting to see every week from Honda/Ford/JLR and the list of other big hitting employers shouting from the roof tops of impending doom.
Sorry, plonkers like the Brexiteer ministers who haven't run anything much more than a social club, and the 'voice of the people' on some miserable high street in Wigan might have a view but I have zero confidence that their hopes are anything more than rosy tinted glasses and wishful thinking. Real Jobs Are Already Being Lost and our political parties are tearing themselves apart.
Is this really the vision of the future we all hoped for???
Erm JLRs demise isn't Brexit driven.
Ford enjoyed a record sales year last year.
The labour promotion of diesel is now backlashing.
Retailers who close have been Rocky for years.
Yet it's customary to blame everything on Brexit.
Our politics is broken. We have people representing us who think very narrowly on both sides of the fence.
Ford enjoyed a record sales year last year.
The labour promotion of diesel is now backlashing.
Retailers who close have been Rocky for years.
Yet it's customary to blame everything on Brexit.
Our politics is broken. We have people representing us who think very narrowly on both sides of the fence.
Sa Calobra said:
And yet remainers thought Europe had our best interests at heart.
What on earth gives you that idea? The EU has the EU's interest at heart; that's what it's there for. As a small but significant part of the EU that meant our well-being was a small but significant part of its interests. Since the referendum, the EU, quite correctly, couldn't give a damn about us.
Some Tweets from Robin Harding - @RobinBHarding, Tokyo bureau chief for the Financial Times - on Honda's Swindon decision
https://twitter.com/RobinBHarding/status/109775678...
A few thoughts from Japan on Honda's sad decision to close Swindon. (Honda will hold a press conference in Tokyo at 8am UK time.) There are two questions: why and why now? I think the answers are different.
Why? Frankly, Swindon *never* made an adequate return for Honda. There's too much capacity in Europe and the situation got worse and worse as Honda’s market share fell. Output at 160k last year is sub-scale. It’s an obvious business decision to close it.
However, Honda has avoided that obvious business decision for many years. Instead, they've tried everything possible to keep Swindon open, such as exporting to the US.
Why now? Brexit promises to raise costs for parts and reduce access to the EU - fatal for an already marginal plant. More importantly, it gives a company that hates to close factories or sack people a license to act.
The role of the EU-Japan trade deal is interesting. Britain pushed for the earliest possible reduction in EU auto tariffs, believing it would help Japanese assembly plants in the UK. There was some logic to this – if they had access to the EU market.
German and French manufacturers always thought Japan would just move assembly home. With the UK outside the EU, the trade deal makes that easy. Past UK policy comes back to bite us.
https://twitter.com/RobinBHarding/status/109775678...
A few thoughts from Japan on Honda's sad decision to close Swindon. (Honda will hold a press conference in Tokyo at 8am UK time.) There are two questions: why and why now? I think the answers are different.
Why? Frankly, Swindon *never* made an adequate return for Honda. There's too much capacity in Europe and the situation got worse and worse as Honda’s market share fell. Output at 160k last year is sub-scale. It’s an obvious business decision to close it.
However, Honda has avoided that obvious business decision for many years. Instead, they've tried everything possible to keep Swindon open, such as exporting to the US.
Why now? Brexit promises to raise costs for parts and reduce access to the EU - fatal for an already marginal plant. More importantly, it gives a company that hates to close factories or sack people a license to act.
The role of the EU-Japan trade deal is interesting. Britain pushed for the earliest possible reduction in EU auto tariffs, believing it would help Japanese assembly plants in the UK. There was some logic to this – if they had access to the EU market.
German and French manufacturers always thought Japan would just move assembly home. With the UK outside the EU, the trade deal makes that easy. Past UK policy comes back to bite us.
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