RE: PH Fleet: Mercedes 190E 2.5-16

[0a]

Great article thanks!

[Nath88n]

Sold mine in 2012 for around £8,000 at just under 70,000 miles.
Worth a fair bit more now I suspect....

[muchacho]

Well, I am glad that there is a bit of appreciation for the Almandine cars. I have a job on this year bringing another red one back to life and I could do with a morale boost!

[wile7]

Lovely to see it back on the road again??

Just took a punt (£800 - 1000chf) on a white 5sp manual 2.0 190 W201 with full dealer history (all bills) and one owner from new. It’s in exceptional condition but 319,000kms....used on motorway from Zurich to Lausanne all it’s life. Even drivers seat bolster is pristine! Manual windows etc, no radio (!) and plastic on rear door cards still. What to do with it...?

Edited by wile7 on Sunday 24th February 11:30

[Mr Tidy]

muchacho said:

Well, I am glad that there is a bit of appreciation for the Almandine cars. I have a job on this year bringing another red one back to life and I could do with a morale boost!

I think Almandine is probably the best MB colour from that era!

So consider your morale boosted, and get it done please.

(And show us the photos).

[s m]

0a said:

Great article thanks!

There’s always a similar one every decade - here were the values in 1992

[alex.baker89]

Cold said:

I thought the 2.3 head was the Cosworth version with the 2.5 being a Mercedes design?

I'm pretty sure this was debunked as a myth. Both the 2.3 and 2.5 heads apparently have job numbers from Cosworth.

I, however am a bit biased as my Dad has owned a black 2.3 16 since 1991. Been garaged since 2000 now but even when he SORN'd it, the mileage was 214k! These cars are bulletproof and incredible fun to drive. Many, many fond childhood memories of trips to France, Wales and the like for family holidays My uncle raced us in his brand new Rover 620ti thinking he could beat the 190. How wrong he was! I also remember my Dad racing a guy in a Cavalier GSI 2000 back in the day. Was pretty even if I recall.

I remember Richard Hammond's stupid segment on this on old TG, when he said the one to buy was the red 2.5 auto IIRC. James May also bought one for a challenge and they mocked it for being under powered compared to the E36 M3 & Sapphire Cosworh, whereas actually the 190 Cossie has almost exactly the same power as the E30 M3. The famous Martin Brundle quote was apparently also true, contrary to him refuting his praise when called by James May!

Edited by alex.baker89 on Tuesday 26th February 12:52

[Dapster]

wile7 said:

Lovely to see it back on the road again??

Just took a punt (£800 - 1000chf) on a white 5sp manual 2.0 190 W201 with full dealer history (all bills) and one owner from new. It’s in exceptional condition but 319,000kms....used on motorway from Zurich to Lausanne all it’s life. Even drivers seat bolster is pristine! Manual windows etc, no radio (!) and plastic on rear door cards still. What to do with it...?

Edited by wile7 on Sunday 24th February 11:30

The first owner has literally gone beserk with the options list! Is that electric front windows I see??? That's just nuts. Made of money was he?

[s m]

alex.baker89 said:

Cold said:

I thought the 2.3 head was the Cosworth version with the 2.5 being a Mercedes design?

I'm pretty sure this was debunked as a myth. Both the 2.3 and 2.5 heads apparently have job numbers from Cosworth.

I, however am a bit biased as my Dad has owned a black 2.3 16 since 1991. Been garaged since 2000 now but even when he SORN'd it, the mileage was 214k! These cars are bulletproof and incredible fun to drive. Many, many fond childhood memories of trips to France, Wales and the like for family holidays My uncle raced us in his brand new Rover 620ti thinking he could beat the 190. How wrong he was! I also remember my Dad racing a guy in a Cavalier GSI 2000 back in the day. Was pretty even if I recall.

I remember Richard Hammond's stupid segment on this on old TG, when he said the one to buy was the red 2.5 auto IIRC. James May also bought one for a challenge and they mocked it for being under powered compared to the E36 M3 & Sapphire Cosworh, whereas actually the 190 Cossie has almost exactly the same power as the E30 M3 . The famous Martin Brundle quote was apparently also true, contrary to him refuting his praise when called by James May!

Edited by alex.baker89 on Tuesday 26th February 12:52

The one James May brought along for that Top Gear Challenge was a 2.3-16 so it would have been about 20bhp down on the lighter Sierra and about 140bhp shy of the BMW .

They are very well built but about 10% heavier than the E30 M3/Sierra - the 2-5-16 is a fair bit quicker than the 2.3-16 in my experience. Friend had a 2.3 and it was about the same performance as my V6 Sierra - he then got a 2.5 and that had the legs on it by a margin

The 2.3-16s were really cheap going back 20 years - used to see them for 2k-2.5k. Took them a while to start going up

[teleostbat]

Someone once pointed out to me the main difference between the Merc Cosworth and E30 M3s were that the 190Es were used as everyday cars, whereas the E30s were not. Would imagine as the E30s were LHD-only this didn't help.

Re the Cosworth factor, when I rebuilt one a few years ago, I was amazed by the difference in price of Cossie-specific engine parts vs plain boggo 190e parts. Literally hundreds vs tens of pounds in some cases...