mandatory speed limiters to be fitted from 2022?

[NMNeil]

I found this while surfing. It's from a 2020 paper by your very own Royal Society, so it's credible.



https://royalsocietypublishing.org/doi/10.1098/rsp...

And if you think it;s just a proposal, JLR are already testing the V2X system of 2 way communication.

https://www.tu-auto.com/jlr-trials-v2x-in-uk-with-...

[NMNeil]

dcb said:

Speed limits on the German autobahn have been discussed ever since
it was invented. Not happened in 80+ years, not likely to ever happen.

Generations of German politicians know that it is political suicide to suggest limits.

Road safety professionals know there is no advantage to such general limits, because the road safety statistics show this. German autobahns are close to European averages for safety.

Even so, with about 10% of the traffic doing over 180 kmh and the average at
145 kmh and rising every year, at what level would you set the limit ?

130 kmh will cost a lot of money in time lost and upset tens of millions
of voters and taxpayers, so that isn't going to happen.

The 85% rule would appear to suggest about 170 kmh, but I can't see
that happening either.

Being forced to drive slowly isn't a very good substitute for driving carefully.

Not verified, but it seems that only certain sections of the German autobahn have no speed limit; yet.

A14 — between Leipzig and Dresden
A44 — between Dortmund and Kassel
A24 — between Berlin and Hamburg
A09 — between Berlin and Leipzig
A06 — between Frankfurt and Freiburg
A07 — between Aalen und Wuerzburg
A20 — between Luebeck and Greifswald

All the rest have 100 Kph speed limits, and the German Road Safety Council proposes making 100 Kph the national speed limit.
https://etsc.eu/german-road-safety-council-launche...

[dcb]

NMNeil said:

Not verified, but it seems that only certain sections of the German autobahn have no speed limit; yet.

A14 — between Leipzig and Dresden
A44 — between Dortmund and Kassel
A24 — between Berlin and Hamburg
A09 — between Berlin and Leipzig
A06 — between Frankfurt and Freiburg
A07 — between Aalen und Wuerzburg
A20 — between Luebeck and Greifswald

All the rest have 100 Kph speed limits,

If you didn't check your facts, why bother posting obviously false material ?

I have personal experience that the A1, A3, A5, A6, A7 and A8 are almost completely unlimited.

To quote wikipedia on the subject:

[i]
German autobahns are famous for having no universal motorway speed limit, although about 30% of them do have some kind of temporary or permanent limit.
[/i]

For the limited bits, 130 kmh is a popular limit and they don't really bother enforcing it until somewhere above 160 kmh.

[irocfan]

dcb said:

If you didn't check your facts, why bother posting obviously false material ?

I have personal experience that the A1, A3, A5, A6, A7 and A8 are almost completely unlimited.

To quote wikipedia on the subject:

[i]
German autobahns are famous for having no universal motorway speed limit, although about 30% of them do have some kind of temporary or permanent limit.
[/i]

For the limited bits, 130 kmh is a popular limit and they don't really bother enforcing it until somewhere above 160 kmh.

glad you said it - there are a number of roads I've driven (relatively) recently which were limitless and those that weren't were at 130....

[NMNeil]

Something that never occurred to me.
https://www.express.co.uk/life-style/cars/1416396/...
That means they will have to make up the loss of 300 million from somewhere.
Be prepared to open your wallets

[Kawasicki]

NMNeil said:

Not verified, but it seems that only certain sections of the German autobahn have no speed limit; yet.

A14 — between Leipzig and Dresden
A44 — between Dortmund and Kassel
A24 — between Berlin and Hamburg
A09 — between Berlin and Leipzig
A06 — between Frankfurt and Freiburg
A07 — between Aalen und Wuerzburg
A20 — between Luebeck and Greifswald

All the rest have 100 Kph speed limits, and the German Road Safety Council proposes making 100 Kph the national speed limit.
https://etsc.eu/german-road-safety-council-launche...

Every time Autobahn speed limits are mentioned on PH, someone incorrectly posts that most are already limited. Is that just wishful thinking?

[A500leroy]

Dont see the issue, we are just returning to the 60s/70s when cars had a top speed of around 75 and even 'hot' stuff like the capri or the mgb would only just crack the ton.

Limiting stuff to 70 is just returning to the past and folks still had plenty of fun back in the golden age of the car. And lets be honest wouldnt it be better if you cant break a 30mph speed limit anyway,and think of how many licences it would save.

[Pixelpeep Z4]

how much fun are people going to have making their own speed limit signs to dick with the people with this system fitted?

Wonder what it does if it can't get GPS signal so doesn't know it's location, would it rely just on the street signs?

If so....mobile signal Jammer and a piece of black insolating tape over the camera lense.

[RSTurboPaul]

A500leroy said:

Dont see the issue, we are just returning to the 60s/70s when cars had a top speed of around 75 and even 'hot' stuff like the capri or the mgb would only just crack the ton.

Limiting stuff to 70 is just returning to the past and folks still had plenty of fun back in the golden age of the car. And lets be honest wouldnt it be better if you cant break a 30mph speed limit anyway,and think of how many licences it would save.

That presumes that the limits are set correctly and not on the whims of local politicians who want to be seen to be 'doing something' - even if all the evidence points to an 85th percentile of 40mph (or even higher) 30mph is installed 'because safer'.

[A500leroy]

RSTurboPaul said:

A500leroy said:

Dont see the issue, we are just returning to the 60s/70s when cars had a top speed of around 75 and even 'hot' stuff like the capri or the mgb would only just crack the ton.

Limiting stuff to 70 is just returning to the past and folks still had plenty of fun back in the golden age of the car. And lets be honest wouldnt it be better if you cant break a 30mph speed limit anyway,and think of how many licences it would save.

That presumes that the limits are set correctly and not on the whims of local politicians who want to be seen to be 'doing something' - even if all the evidence points to an 85th percentile of 40mph (or even higher) 30mph is installed 'because safer'.

Even if that 'wrong' 30 limit where a 40 could be saves one life every 10 years isnt it worth the few seconds longer your journey will take?

[RSTurboPaul]

A500leroy said:

RSTurboPaul said:

A500leroy said:

Dont see the issue, we are just returning to the 60s/70s when cars had a top speed of around 75 and even 'hot' stuff like the capri or the mgb would only just crack the ton.

Limiting stuff to 70 is just returning to the past and folks still had plenty of fun back in the golden age of the car. And lets be honest wouldnt it be better if you cant break a 30mph speed limit anyway,and think of how many licences it would save.

That presumes that the limits are set correctly and not on the whims of local politicians who want to be seen to be 'doing something' - even if all the evidence points to an 85th percentile of 40mph (or even higher) 30mph is installed 'because safer'.

Even if that 'wrong' 30 limit where a 40 could be saves one life every 10 years isnt it worth the few seconds longer your journey will take?

If stopping everyone from driving saves one life, isn't it worth it?

Are you going to volunteer your licence?

[irocfan]

RSTurboPaul said:

A500leroy said:

RSTurboPaul said:

A500leroy said:

Dont see the issue, we are just returning to the 60s/70s when cars had a top speed of around 75 and even 'hot' stuff like the capri or the mgb would only just crack the ton.

Limiting stuff to 70 is just returning to the past and folks still had plenty of fun back in the golden age of the car. And lets be honest wouldnt it be better if you cant break a 30mph speed limit anyway,and think of how many licences it would save.

That presumes that the limits are set correctly and not on the whims of local politicians who want to be seen to be 'doing something' - even if all the evidence points to an 85th percentile of 40mph (or even higher) 30mph is installed 'because safer'.

Even if that 'wrong' 30 limit where a 40 could be saves one life every 10 years isnt it worth the few seconds longer your journey will take?

If stopping everyone from driving saves one life, isn't it worth it?

Are you going to volunteer your licence?

[dcb]

RSTurboPaul said:

That presumes that the limits are set correctly and not on the whims of local politicians who want to be seen to be 'doing something' - even if all the evidence points to an 85th percentile of 40mph (or even higher) 30mph is installed 'because safer'.

In the UK, road safety professionals would like to use the 85% rule to set limits.
It is the value established by science that minimises time and life lost.

Sadly, politicians mandate that civil servants must the use of the 50% rule,
which isn't optimal and so costs life and time lost.

Shame the politicians deliberately don't follow the science as espoused
by the road safety professionals.

One can reasonably infer that most British limits aren't there for
road safety reasons, they are there to show that politicians have control
and that control is paid for in human life.

[NMNeil]

Kawasicki said:

Every time Autobahn speed limits are mentioned on PH, someone incorrectly posts that most are already limited. Is that just wishful thinking?

More like looking into the future.
https://www.worldhighways.com/wh12/news/speed-limi...
"This would bring to an end the remaining sections of the network with unlimited speed limits."
Inferring that not all of the autobahns have no speed limits.

[Kawasicki]

NMNeil said:

Kawasicki said:

Every time Autobahn speed limits are mentioned on PH, someone incorrectly posts that most are already limited. Is that just wishful thinking?

More like looking into the future.
https://www.worldhighways.com/wh12/news/speed-limi...
"This would bring to an end the remaining sections of the network with unlimited speed limits."
Inferring that not all of the autobahns have no speed limits.

I think speed limits will come, because it’s politically incorrect to allow individuals to decide how fast they want to drive. Germany has been through this debate for decades now. It’s tough to introduce limits based on safety as Autobahns are by far the safest roads in Germany. So why are they always the first speed limit to be debated?

[RSTurboPaul]

Kawasicki said:

NMNeil said:

Kawasicki said:

Every time Autobahn speed limits are mentioned on PH, someone incorrectly posts that most are already limited. Is that just wishful thinking?

More like looking into the future.
https://www.worldhighways.com/wh12/news/speed-limi...
"This would bring to an end the remaining sections of the network with unlimited speed limits."
Inferring that not all of the autobahns have no speed limits.

I think speed limits will come, because it’s politically incorrect to allow individuals to decide how fast they want to drive. Germany has been through this debate for decades now. It’s tough to introduce limits based on safety as Autobahns are by far the safest roads in Germany. So why are they always the first speed limit to be debated?

Because the anti-car, anti-movement, anti-personal-freedom 'watermelons' (green on the outside, red on the inside) have a very loud (but very minority) voice.

They are the equivalent of that one-man-band-with-a-loudhailer anti-brexit moron that ruined BBC news every evening for months.

Stopping those selfish people exercising their own free will while burning through oil resources is the perfect aim of those sort of people.

[RSTurboPaul]

dcb said:

RSTurboPaul said:

That presumes that the limits are set correctly and not on the whims of local politicians who want to be seen to be 'doing something' - even if all the evidence points to an 85th percentile of 40mph (or even higher) 30mph is installed 'because safer'.

In the UK, road safety professionals would like to use the 85% rule to set limits.
It is the value established by science that minimises time and life lost.

Sadly, politicians mandate that civil servants must the use of the 50% rule,
which isn't optimal and so costs life and time lost.

Shame the politicians deliberately don't follow the science as espoused
by the road safety professionals.

One can reasonably infer that most British limits aren't there for
road safety reasons, they are there to show that politicians have control
and that control is paid for in human life.

Agreed.


What winds me up is that 'Setting Local Speed Limits' (Circular 01/2013? IIRC?) claimed 'using the average speed measurement removes the nutters from influencing the limit' (to paraphrase) yet, d'uh, including the entire dataset to get the average quite clearly includes them...

It is the 85th percentile approach that excludes them, as it throws away the fastest 15% as nutters!

[RyanOPlasty]

A length of rural road near me has been reduced directly from NSL to 30 despite having no serious or fatal accidents for 22 years because "safer"

[NMNeil]

Kawasicki said:

I think speed limits will come, because it’s politically incorrect to allow individuals to decide how fast they want to drive. Germany has been through this debate for decades now. It’s tough to introduce limits based on safety as Autobahns are by far the safest roads in Germany. So why are they always the first speed limit to be debated?

Because it's used as a justification to own a fast car, and the autobahn will be cited ever time there is a proposal to introduce speed limiters, "But what if I go to Germany and use the autobahns."

[Welshbeef]

https://www.evo.co.uk/news/22326/mandatory-speed-l...

So regardless of what the road speed limits are you’ll not be able to buy a new car from 2022 without a 112mph speed limiter. Which means for performance cars you can only extract full performance in the first 3 gears (3rd illegally but meh plenty break the limits)