mandatory speed limiters to be fitted from 2022?

[vaud]

tommy1973s said:

Speed limiters don't bother me. But these things will report aggressive acceleration even within speed limits and your insurer will up your premium to reflect the supposed increased risk of your aggressive driving style.

Insurers could ask to collate this now from some cars (e.g. Tesla) and ask for extra premium for activating ludicrous mode....

But they don't as the model risk based on car make / model / occupation / location, etc, not individual driving style (outside of black boxes).

There is unlikely to be much need, otherwise they would offer black boxes to everyone and increase premiums for non-black box use?

[RSTurboPaul]

vaud said:

tommy1973s said:

Speed limiters don't bother me. But these things will report aggressive acceleration even within speed limits and your insurer will up your premium to reflect the supposed increased risk of your aggressive driving style.

Insurers could ask to collate this now from some cars (e.g. Tesla) and ask for extra premium for activating ludicrous mode....

But they don't as the model risk based on car make / model / occupation / location, etc, not individual driving style (outside of black boxes).

There is unlikely to be much need, otherwise they would offer black boxes to everyone and increase premiums for non-black box use?

The industry would love this - instant ability to cancel / increase a premium and/or refuse to payout.

[Pothole]

NMNeil said:

321boost said:

Sign sign sign!

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/251938

It ran for 6 months and got less than 2000 signatures.
What does that tell you?

It was as poorly worded as most other petitions on that site.

[vaud]

RSTurboPaul said:

The industry would love this - instant ability to cancel / increase a premium and/or refuse to payout.

They could have done it for years but it is a free market and clearly they see no need to do it.

Even the current black boxes don’t instantly ban:increase premium, etc

[techguyone]

vaud said:

tommy1973s said:

Speed limiters don't bother me. But these things will report aggressive acceleration even within speed limits and your insurer will up your premium to reflect the supposed increased risk of your aggressive driving style.

Insurers could ask to collate this now from some cars (e.g. Tesla) and ask for extra premium for activating ludicrous mode....

But they don't as the model risk based on car make / model / occupation / location, etc, not individual driving style (outside of black boxes).

There is unlikely to be much need, otherwise they would offer black boxes to everyone and increase premiums for non-black box use?

Lets not forget as more EV's come online and road tax revenues drop, PAYG will go in, that will be a yup... black box in your car.

[GranpaB]

RSTurboPaul said:

vaud said:

tommy1973s said:

Speed limiters don't bother me. But these things will report aggressive acceleration even within speed limits and your insurer will up your premium to reflect the supposed increased risk of your aggressive driving style.

Insurers could ask to collate this now from some cars (e.g. Tesla) and ask for extra premium for activating ludicrous mode....

But they don't as the model risk based on car make / model / occupation / location, etc, not individual driving style (outside of black boxes).

There is unlikely to be much need, otherwise they would offer black boxes to everyone and increase premiums for non-black box use?

The industry would love this - instant ability to cancel / increase a premium and/or refuse to payout.

Totally understand why insurers are going to like this as it will be a lot less risk for them.

[dcb]

NMNeil said:

Well that's nonsense. As there is no road in the UK where there is an 80mph limit there cannot be any evidence that it's safer or more dangerous.

Indeed, except for an established body of road safety science built up
over the last century or so across the planet. The 85% rule is known to work well.

NMNeil said:

Say what you will, but a minority of drivers can't be trusted with a car capable of breaking the speed limit, so the obvious answer is to make the car incapable of breaking the speed limit in the first place, and that's what's happening.

Absolute ravings.

NMNeil said:

I can't understand why you don't want to make the roads safer by having sped limiters fitted as standard.

Mainly because it is plain that they won't be an effective solution. UK Gov's own numbers show
that around 5% of all car accidents have breaking the speed limit as a contributory
factor.

You seem keen to control the 5%, not the 95% and so look as if you are
more interested in control than solving the problem.

Given the response of myself and other posters, it rather looks like you are wasting
your time on pistonheads. Maybe you would be happier elsewhere ?

[vaud]

techguyone said:

Lets not forget as more EV's come online and road tax revenues drop, PAYG will go in, that will be a yup... black box in your car.

There is already a "black box" in most new vehicles that capture a massive amount of data. Many are connected to the manufacturer and also can do upgrades over the air.

Zero road tax on EVs is temporary to encourage adoption, a bit like the grants and low taxation for company car EVs (though that will increase from zero soon)

As adoption increases they will bring in something to replace VED (no such thing as road tax) to balance the loss in revenue.

Road mileage tax is a regressive tax to those in rural areas. It might get applied to freight but I doubt domestic use.

What the data will let insurers do is assign fault more accurately, though it will only be worth it for larger claims.

[321boost]

NMNeil said:

321boost said:

Sign sign sign!

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/251938

It ran for 6 months and got less than 2000 signatures.
What does that tell you?

nothing because later there was a survey showing 61% of the drivers disagree with speed limiters.

[MKnight702]

tommy1973s said:

Speed limiters don't bother me. But these things will report aggressive acceleration even within speed limits and your insurer will up your premium to reflect the supposed increased risk of your aggressive driving style.

If these are like the black boxes that the insurance companies are trying to foist on the driving public then it is even worse than that. The accelerometers are overly simplistic. Hit a speedbump just wrong and it records aggressive acceleration, hit a pothole and it records aggressive cornering. My daughter's car insurance one gave nothing but problems (battery kept dying), when I Googled it there was a litany of complaints from other drivers reporting black boxes reporting "aggressive" driving or non existent accidents due to the box recording false accelerometer spikes due to road condition. One chap had a stick on black box that kept falling off the windscreen due to poor glue, each time the box fell off the windscreen it reported a collision. The insurer who's box was at fault insisted that the driver had to pay to purchase a replacement for the faulty unit.

The black box is too dumb to be relied upon, there is absolutely no context. Drive slowly down a typical city residential street with cars parked either side, kid runs out and you do an emergency stop to avoid the kid. Great, you were paying attention and a kid lives to do something else stupid another day. However, the black box records sudden braking and you get flagged.

[RSTurboPaul]

MKnight702 said:

The black box is too dumb to be relied upon, there is absolutely no context. Drive slowly down a typical city residential street with cars parked either side, kid runs out and you do an emergency stop to avoid the kid. Great, you were paying attention and a kid lives to do something else stupid another day. However, the black box records sudden braking and you get flagged.

I have read anecdotal reports (might have been on here) that some young people are actively avoiding braking when it would be a good idea to do so, because it might come up as poor driving. (I guess it's like van and lorry drivers wanting to maintain momentum rather than brake and get stuck being slow for a period of time.)

[Kawasicki]

MKnight702 said:

The black box is too dumb to be relied upon, there is absolutely no context.

Yes. Multiple dash cams should be introduced, one facing forwards, one rearwards & another filming the driver. This will undoubtedly improve safety.

[MKnight702]

Kawasicki said:

Yes. Multiple dash cams should be introduced, one facing forwards, one rearwards & another filming the driver. This will undoubtedly improve safety.

Because black boxes improve safety?

Black boxes are all about "punishing" what the insurance companies have determined as inappropriate driving. So brake too hard, accelerate too hard or corner too hard are all punishable "offences". None of these, on their own, constitute bad driving, accelerate away from the traffic lights in a sporty car up to the posted limit without breaking traction is now considered "bad", braking hard to avoid a collision is considered "bad", taking avoiding action round a large pot hole is considered "bad", creeping over the speed limit is "bad" (as we all know). This is what has lead to the proliferation of people driving like Nuns on acid, minimum of 2mph below the speed limit, accelerating out of junctions like they have an open jug of milk on the passenger seat, starting to slow for the traffic lights as soon as they appear on the horizon, no matter what colour they are. This in turn has lead to an increase in frustration in many of the other drivers.

[Kawasicki]

MKnight702 said:

Kawasicki said:

Yes. Multiple dash cams should be introduced, one facing forwards, one rearwards & another filming the driver. This will undoubtedly improve safety.

Because black boxes improve safety?

Black boxes are all about "punishing" what the insurance companies have determined as inappropriate driving. So brake too hard, accelerate too hard or corner too hard are all punishable "offences". None of these, on their own, constitute bad driving, accelerate away from the traffic lights in a sporty car up to the posted limit without breaking traction is now considered "bad", braking hard to avoid a collision is considered "bad", taking avoiding action round a large pot hole is considered "bad", creeping over the speed limit is "bad" (as we all know). This is what has lead to the proliferation of people driving like Nuns on acid, minimum of 2mph below the speed limit, accelerating out of junctions like they have an open jug of milk on the passenger seat, starting to slow for the traffic lights as soon as they appear on the horizon, no matter what colour they are. This in turn has lead to an increase in frustration in many of the other drivers .

If other drivers are becoming frustrated then they clearly are upset by someone driving carefully and that is a sign that they, too, should be monitored. Slower acceleration is safer, as it leaves more grip available for avoiding hazards.

[RSTurboPaul]

Kawasicki said:

MKnight702 said:

Kawasicki said:

Yes. Multiple dash cams should be introduced, one facing forwards, one rearwards & another filming the driver. This will undoubtedly improve safety.

Because black boxes improve safety?

Black boxes are all about "punishing" what the insurance companies have determined as inappropriate driving. So brake too hard, accelerate too hard or corner too hard are all punishable "offences". None of these, on their own, constitute bad driving, accelerate away from the traffic lights in a sporty car up to the posted limit without breaking traction is now considered "bad", braking hard to avoid a collision is considered "bad", taking avoiding action round a large pot hole is considered "bad", creeping over the speed limit is "bad" (as we all know). This is what has lead to the proliferation of people driving like Nuns on acid, minimum of 2mph below the speed limit, accelerating out of junctions like they have an open jug of milk on the passenger seat, starting to slow for the traffic lights as soon as they appear on the horizon, no matter what colour they are. This in turn has lead to an increase in frustration in many of the other drivers .

If other drivers are becoming frustrated then they clearly are upset by someone driving carefully and that is a sign that they, too, should be monitored. Slower acceleration is safer, as it leaves more grip available for avoiding hazards.

LOL

Okay.

[vaud]

RSTurboPaul said:

LOL

Okay.

For the majority of drivers (non PH driving gods) the ideas behind a black box are good.

Progressive acceleration, encouraging a bigger gap to allow for more controlled braking and avoidance, etc.

Sure they don't cover every scenario but they might:

• Enable a young person who needs a car to get to a job to afford it
• Slow the more impetuous 17 year olds to build some experience and miles in different road/weather conditions before moving on to a non-black box

[mfmman]

My son has a black box in his car as condition of a young driver policy. I’m obligated to use it too when I occasionally drive his car. I drive in the same style as I drive everything else. It’s slower because it’s 1.2 Polo but otherwise cornering, braking, adherence to speed limits etc are as normal. 5 stars for every trip. Not seeing the claim you need to drive like Miss Daisy’s chauffeur or else

[Kawasicki]

mfmman said:

My son has a black box in his car as condition of a young driver policy. I’m obligated to use it too when I occasionally drive his car. I drive in the same style as I drive everything else. It’s slower because it’s 1.2 Polo but otherwise cornering, braking, adherence to speed limits etc are as normal. 5 stars for every trip. Not seeing the claim you need to drive like Miss Daisy’s chauffeur or else

How often do you get the tyres howling?

[mfmman]

Kawasicki said:

mfmman said:

My son has a black box in his car as condition of a young driver policy. I’m obligated to use it too when I occasionally drive his car. I drive in the same style as I drive everything else. It’s slower because it’s 1.2 Polo but otherwise cornering, braking, adherence to speed limits etc are as normal. 5 stars for every trip. Not seeing the claim you need to drive like Miss Daisy’s chauffeur or else

How often do you get the tyres howling?

Not as often as I did when driving my mum's Datsun 120Y when I was 17, but then the only black box was the thing your JPS fags came in

[ghost83]

For me once they go all this route if I have to buy a new car it will be that boring it will just be an autonomous vehicle as I don’t want the hassle, as said in an earlier post pre 2022 cars will probably then go up in value as you’re not been spied on as such