RE: TR Supercars Speed 12 Turbo: Showpiece of the Week
Discussion
Zumbruk said:
This is no more a TVR Speed 12 than I am an international triathlete.
The closest it gets is with the general styling.. Sadly for me, having an AM V12 rather than an engine that in some ways is related to the original, is the end for me. I'm sure the AM engine is more reliable, easier to source parts etc, but if the heart of the car is basically a 'crate' engine, then it's merely a visual homage to the past.Or.......A kit car. That reduces the value factor significantly for me.
wolfie28 said:
Crazy price and crazy car - I love it and want one 
. From my dull and distant memory, did Keith Flint from the Prodigy have a Speed 12?
I was going to say the same about Keith. It's always one of the first things that springs to my mind when the subject of the Speed 12 comes up, because no matter how amazing the car seemed, the idea of old Flinty owning the only 1, or 1 of them, just amuses me. No idea if there was any truth to it though.. From my dull and distant memory, did Keith Flint from the Prodigy have a Speed 12?Had to chuckle that they've added nearly 300kg, or nearly 30% more weight to the car in spite of the more modern materials and constructions techniques in use!
PoopahScoopah said:
wolfie28 said:
I was going to say the same about Keith. It's always one of the first things that springs to my mind when the subject of the Speed 12 comes up, because no matter how amazing the car seemed, the idea of old Flinty owning the only 1, or 1 of them, just amuses me. No idea if there was any truth to it though.
Standard yellow Cerbera IIRC. Supposedly had his name down for a production Speed12 if it ever came about. Mike335i said:
Really? An article about the glorious Speed 12 being reborn and THAT is what you take form it?
Unbelievable...
I always loved the original, such an amazing car. I remember reading about it in Top Gear Magazine in '98, I was struck by something being faster than the McLaren F1 even being possible.
It's not really an article about the glorious Speed 12 being reborn though, it's an article about someone selling a slightly uglier look-alike with a completely diferent engine.Unbelievable...
I always loved the original, such an amazing car. I remember reading about it in Top Gear Magazine in '98, I was struck by something being faster than the McLaren F1 even being possible.
I was a big fan of the original Speed 12 and Cerbera Speed 12 but this car doesn't really excite me.
WCZ said:
so it's not actually a speed 12? just a recreation with completely different parts ?
Nobody knows, the article mentions the single customer car being delivered, then this one, but there doesn't appear to be any further clarity as to whether this is that car, modified - or a new car built from parts.Either way its definitely 2 things.
1. Awesome
2. Overpriced. By £1m.
Mike335i said:
Really? An article about the glorious Speed 12 being reborn and THAT is what you take form it?
Unbelievable...
I always loved the original, such an amazing car. I remember reading about it in Top Gear Magazine in '98, I was struck by something being faster than the McLaren F1 even being possible.
It jarred really badly for me as well, so I'm afraid Mike335i is not alone.Unbelievable...
I always loved the original, such an amazing car. I remember reading about it in Top Gear Magazine in '98, I was struck by something being faster than the McLaren F1 even being possible.
A big part of me wants to like this but a lot of time has passed since I saw one at the motor show and I think the design is looking a little dated now.
They had the chance (just like TVR did with the new Griffith) to make it look completely mental (and therefore attractive to any new owner who would also have to be a little unhinged, let's face it) but decided to keep it looking like the original - why? Just to trade on the brand awareness I'm guessing which isn't a bad thing in itself but for that money I wonder what a new owner with the cash would want - originality (but not original, especially the engine) or perhaps going to town on the design or weight/other aspects? A moot point as I do not have the cash, but I do wonder.
Of course this is headline-grabbing and perhaps could raise the profile of TVR? Jog a few memories... No bad thing.
On a related TVR thought - I looked at the linked video of a Sagaris driving in front of the new Griffith - how did they get the styling so right on the Sagaris (and many other TVR's) then we ended up with something more "jarring"? It is inoffensive but I have no longing to own one like earlier models - perhaps I'm getting old...!
They had the chance (just like TVR did with the new Griffith) to make it look completely mental (and therefore attractive to any new owner who would also have to be a little unhinged, let's face it) but decided to keep it looking like the original - why? Just to trade on the brand awareness I'm guessing which isn't a bad thing in itself but for that money I wonder what a new owner with the cash would want - originality (but not original, especially the engine) or perhaps going to town on the design or weight/other aspects? A moot point as I do not have the cash, but I do wonder.
Of course this is headline-grabbing and perhaps could raise the profile of TVR? Jog a few memories... No bad thing.
On a related TVR thought - I looked at the linked video of a Sagaris driving in front of the new Griffith - how did they get the styling so right on the Sagaris (and many other TVR's) then we ended up with something more "jarring"? It is inoffensive but I have no longing to own one like earlier models - perhaps I'm getting old...!
Fire99 said:
The closest it gets is with the general styling.. Sadly for me, having an AM V12 rather than an engine that in some ways is related to the original, is the end for me. I'm sure the AM engine is more reliable, easier to source parts etc, but if the heart of the car is basically a 'crate' engine, then it's merely a visual homage to the past.Or.......A kit car. That reduces the value factor significantly for me.
I don't think anyone reading this article thinks this is anything other than a bitsa, but for those that have been left a bit luke warm by the current TVR incarnation, if of course it ever makes it of the production line, this is an homage that at least attempts to recreate something of the spirit of the original.
likesachange said:
kambites said:
I'd imagine it's going to have significant traction issues. 
yes... but no more than an Ultima Can Am... for example You may be right though, it could easily be a typo or be deliberately conservative.
Robert-nszl1 said:
TVRs were all glorified kit cars back in the day, most with crate engines. Did the Speed 12 engine ever actually get beyond the drawing board? Their straight six was hardly a model of reliability.
Considering I owned a TVR for a decade or so, I think glorified kit car is pushing it a bit. To a degree the Pre-96 model cars did have outside engines.. That's not the issue.. The Speed 12 did have an in-house engine and it did race in the GT series, so they did exist to a certain degree and that's where the pedigree exists. A Speed 12 needs something based on the original's 7.7 engine.. Reliability? It's irrelevant. The car needs to be in some ways accurate to gain real value, and there is no reason why, IF the 7.7 wasn't reliable, improvements couldn't be made in the 20 years since it appeared, without ditching it for a completely different unit from a different car..
Interesting that it only makes 100 lb ft torque/ Litre despite being twin turbo and clearly boosting well at high revs, seems like they've limited the boost at low- mid range for traction perhaps.
For comparison, the much smaller 4L AMG Hot V8 with 4 less cylinders engine makes up to 664 lb ft in the new 4 door GT.
For comparison, the much smaller 4L AMG Hot V8 with 4 less cylinders engine makes up to 664 lb ft in the new 4 door GT.
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