RE: Next Porsche Macan to be electric only
Wednesday 27th February 2019
Next Porsche Macan to be electric only
Saving for a compact Porsche SUV? Better add in the cost of a charging point...
Well this is fairly big news, isn't it? The Macan, Porsche's best selling model by a significant margin, is set to become a full EV when the next generation arrives in 2021. That's not an electric option to sit alongside the fuel-burning variants either; there'll be no Macan E next to the S, GTS and Turbo on dealer forecourts. If you want a Macan, you'll be plugging it in at night.
By that point, of course, the notion of a plug-in Porsche won't be such a novel one, with the Taycan and Taycan Cross Turismo both scheduled to launch by the end of 2020, softening the ground before the Macan lands a year later. Still, the announcement marks the first time a major manufacturer has declared that an established model in its lineup will be doing away with traditional fossil fuels altogether, and as such the decision will no doubt cause a certain level of commotion amongst Stuttgart's peers and customers alike.
Precise details are understandably scarce at the moment, however it is understood that though the electric Macan will share its 800V technology with the Taycan. It will be the first model to take advantage of the 'Premium Platform Electric' architecture co-developed with Audi. Under the plans Porsche's Leipzig manufacturing facility will also be transformed into "an automobile plant for electromobility."
Explaining the choice, Porsche bigwig Oliver Blume said: "Electromobility and Porsche go together perfectly; not just because they share a high-efficiency approach, but especially because of their sporty character. By 2022 we will be investing more than six billion euros in electric mobility, and by 2025 50% of all new Porsche vehicles could have an electric drive system."
There's no need to start panic-buying 911s just yet, though, with Blume continuing: "Nevertheless, over the next ten years we will focus on a drive mix consisting of even further optimised petrol engines, plug-in hybrid models, and purely electrically operated sports cars." So we have at least another decade, and hopefully more, of petrol-powered Porsche sports cars. But the writing would appear to be on the wall for its less driver-focussed models.
To that end, it'll be interesting to see how the electric Macan is received by buyers. It's hard to imagine many of them being too perturbed, as long as it has Porsche badges in the correct places and pressing the right pedal makes it go fast (which it will). Once the technology starts to filter down to models which occupy more of a middle ground, though, the company might find itself facing some expectation issues.
Discussion
Yet the British infrastructure to charge these thing is virtually none existent.
Sit outside a petrol station for an hour and count how many cars fill up then leave. Now think of the massive que's waiting for all these cars to plug into a charge point for 45 mins.
I'm sure this push for `all electric` will be turned round when no one buys them as they can't charge the damn things up.
Plus, just how many more power stations will we need if we all went all electric? We can't even build one without the French or Chinese building it for us. Look how that's gone recently?
Sit outside a petrol station for an hour and count how many cars fill up then leave. Now think of the massive que's waiting for all these cars to plug into a charge point for 45 mins.
I'm sure this push for `all electric` will be turned round when no one buys them as they can't charge the damn things up.
Plus, just how many more power stations will we need if we all went all electric? We can't even build one without the French or Chinese building it for us. Look how that's gone recently?
Makes absolute sense IMO. Not sure anyone has ever bought a Macan for it's 'soulful' engine (they're all VW units anyway aren't they?) so a couple of whopping great electric motors sounds about right to me. By that point, Ionity will have over 400 Tesla style supercharger stations across Europe, and the UK network should also be a lot more healthy. I expect it will adopt the 800v architecture of the Taycan, which means 350kW charging and 100km added range in less than 5mins....
Jimbo89 said:
Good on them. Can't help but think it's a gamble though. Do many Porsche buyers have them for their planet saving ability?
Actually a lot, these days most buy for the badge/status. It being electric gives them a "moral high ground" when people question their "conspicuous consumerism".wab172uk said:
Yet the British infrastructure to charge these thing is virtually none existent.
Sit outside a petrol station for an hour and count how many cars fill up then leave. Now think of the massive que's waiting for all these cars to plug into a charge point for 45 mins.
I'm sure this push for `all electric` will be turned round when no one buys them as they can't charge the damn things up.
Plus, just how many more power stations will we need if we all went all electric? We can't even build one without the French or Chinese building it for us. Look how that's gone recently?
I'm going out on a limb here, but I think the Porsche owners' houses will have been connected to the grid already. Sit outside a petrol station for an hour and count how many cars fill up then leave. Now think of the massive que's waiting for all these cars to plug into a charge point for 45 mins.
I'm sure this push for `all electric` will be turned round when no one buys them as they can't charge the damn things up.
Plus, just how many more power stations will we need if we all went all electric? We can't even build one without the French or Chinese building it for us. Look how that's gone recently?
wab172uk said:
Yet the British infrastructure to charge these thing is virtually none existent.
Sit outside a petrol station for an hour and count how many cars fill up then leave. Now think of the massive que's waiting for all these cars to plug into a charge point for 45 mins.
I'm sure this push for `all electric` will be turned round when no one buys them as they can't charge the damn things up.
Plus, just how many more power stations will we need if we all went all electric? We can't even build one without the French or Chinese building it for us. Look how that's gone recently?
When this is on the market, that simply won't be the case though. 3-4 years time there will be a decent number of Hyperchargers around, which means 5-10mins will get you 150 miles of range on a car with an 800V battery. If you time a car from the time it pulls up at a petrol pump to when it leaves, you'll find it's around 5mins....Sit outside a petrol station for an hour and count how many cars fill up then leave. Now think of the massive que's waiting for all these cars to plug into a charge point for 45 mins.
I'm sure this push for `all electric` will be turned round when no one buys them as they can't charge the damn things up.
Plus, just how many more power stations will we need if we all went all electric? We can't even build one without the French or Chinese building it for us. Look how that's gone recently?
lyonspride said:
Jimbo89 said:
Good on them. Can't help but think it's a gamble though. Do many Porsche buyers have them for their planet saving ability?
Actually a lot, these days most buy for the badge/status. It being electric gives them a "moral high ground" when people question their "conspicuous consumerism".wab172uk said:
Yet the British infrastructure to charge these thing is virtually none existent.
Sit outside a petrol station for an hour and count how many cars fill up then leave. Now think of the massive que's waiting for all these cars to plug into a charge point for 45 mins.
I'm sure this push for `all electric` will be turned round when no one buys them as they can't charge the damn things up.
Plus, just how many more power stations will we need if we all went all electric? We can't even build one without the French or Chinese building it for us. Look how that's gone recently?
Let's skip the foreplay and get straight to hydrogen...Sit outside a petrol station for an hour and count how many cars fill up then leave. Now think of the massive que's waiting for all these cars to plug into a charge point for 45 mins.
I'm sure this push for `all electric` will be turned round when no one buys them as they can't charge the damn things up.
Plus, just how many more power stations will we need if we all went all electric? We can't even build one without the French or Chinese building it for us. Look how that's gone recently?
MrGeoff said:
wab172uk said:
Yet the British infrastructure to charge these thing is virtually none existent.
Sit outside a petrol station for an hour and count how many cars fill up then leave. Now think of the massive que's waiting for all these cars to plug into a charge point for 45 mins.
I'm sure this push for `all electric` will be turned round when no one buys them as they can't charge the damn things up.
Plus, just how many more power stations will we need if we all went all electric? We can't even build one without the French or Chinese building it for us. Look how that's gone recently?
Let's skip the foreplay and get straight to hydrogen...Sit outside a petrol station for an hour and count how many cars fill up then leave. Now think of the massive que's waiting for all these cars to plug into a charge point for 45 mins.
I'm sure this push for `all electric` will be turned round when no one buys them as they can't charge the damn things up.
Plus, just how many more power stations will we need if we all went all electric? We can't even build one without the French or Chinese building it for us. Look how that's gone recently?
wab172uk said:
Yet the British infrastructure to charge these thing is virtually none existent.
Sit outside a petrol station for an hour and count how many cars fill up then leave. Now think of the massive que's waiting for all these cars to plug into a charge point for 45 mins.
The bit that is rather confusing is the different types of charging point..Sit outside a petrol station for an hour and count how many cars fill up then leave. Now think of the massive que's waiting for all these cars to plug into a charge point for 45 mins.
i.e. For rapid charging there's CHAdeMO 50kw DC , then CCS which is 50kw DC , then Type 2 43KW AC, and Tesla Type 2, 120 KW, AC..
From Zap-Map..
"EV models that use CHAdeMO rapid charging include the Nissan Leaf, Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV, and Kia Soul EV. CCS compatible models include the BMW i3, VW e-Golf, and Hyundai Ioniq Electric. Tesla’s Model S and Model X are exclusively able to use the Supercharger network, while the only model currently able to charge on Rapid AC is the Renault Zoe."
Then the regular fast-chargers at 7KW or 7-22KW are Type 1, Type 2 and then COMMANDO.
That seems unfortunately complicated.
wab172uk said:
Yet the British infrastructure to charge these thing is virtually none existent.
Sit outside a petrol station for an hour and count how many cars fill up then leave. Now think of the massive que's waiting for all these cars to plug into a charge point for 45 mins.
I'm sure this push for `all electric` will be turned round when no one buys them as they can't charge the damn things up.
Plus, just how many more power stations will we need if we all went all electric? We can't even build one without the French or Chinese building it for us. Look how that's gone recently?
I've went from a Cayenne to a 208, admittedly not through choice at the time. But now I'm in it I quite enjoy driving it here to be honest, its convenient and economical. I reckon I now stop in petrol stations to get a coke or a water more often than I do to fuel up these days. Sit outside a petrol station for an hour and count how many cars fill up then leave. Now think of the massive que's waiting for all these cars to plug into a charge point for 45 mins.
I'm sure this push for `all electric` will be turned round when no one buys them as they can't charge the damn things up.
Plus, just how many more power stations will we need if we all went all electric? We can't even build one without the French or Chinese building it for us. Look how that's gone recently?
I'd consider a Macan electric and would continue to use petrol stations as convenience stores, I wouldn't really use be interested in charging my car there. I'd do that at home or the shopping centres where I actually want to spend an hour or 4.
Fire99 said:
wab172uk said:
Yet the British infrastructure to charge these thing is virtually none existent.
Sit outside a petrol station for an hour and count how many cars fill up then leave. Now think of the massive que's waiting for all these cars to plug into a charge point for 45 mins.
The bit that is rather confusing is the different types of charging point..Sit outside a petrol station for an hour and count how many cars fill up then leave. Now think of the massive que's waiting for all these cars to plug into a charge point for 45 mins.
i.e. For rapid charging there's CHAdeMO 50kw DC , then CCS which is 50kw DC , then Type 2 43KW AC, and Tesla Type 2, 120 KW, AC..
From Zap-Map..
"EV models that use CHAdeMO rapid charging include the Nissan Leaf, Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV, and Kia Soul EV. CCS compatible models include the BMW i3, VW e-Golf, and Hyundai Ioniq Electric. Tesla’s Model S and Model X are exclusively able to use the Supercharger network, while the only model currently able to charge on Rapid AC is the Renault Zoe."
Then the regular fast-chargers at 7KW or 7-22KW are Type 1, Type 2 and then COMMANDO.
That seems unfortunately complicated.
wab172uk said:
Yet the British infrastructure to charge these thing is virtually none existent.
Sit outside a petrol station for an hour and count how many cars fill up then leave. Now think of the massive que's waiting for all these cars to plug into a charge point for 45 mins.
I'm sure this push for `all electric` will be turned round when no one buys them as they can't charge the damn things up.
Plus, just how many more power stations will we need if we all went all electric? We can't even build one without the French or Chinese building it for us. Look how that's gone recently?
The British infrastructure that provides pretty much every home and business with metered electricity from wall sockets provided by various generation methods ?Sit outside a petrol station for an hour and count how many cars fill up then leave. Now think of the massive que's waiting for all these cars to plug into a charge point for 45 mins.
I'm sure this push for `all electric` will be turned round when no one buys them as they can't charge the damn things up.
Plus, just how many more power stations will we need if we all went all electric? We can't even build one without the French or Chinese building it for us. Look how that's gone recently?
I can charge one up, plug it in overnight and dont have to piss about at Tescos on the way to work.
There wasnt a massive fossil fuel distribution network in place around in 1900 either but people managed and motoring burgeoned, we have a head start on that scenario with all the existing electrical infrastructure and loads of people are managing just fine with an EV, saw three plugged in whilst walking the dog last night so its happening.
We "wont all go electric", not straight away, its a long journey and will never be 100 percent anyway but I do believe the bulk of personal transport and light goods will move over in the next twenty years.
The clincher may end up perversely, that as filling stations dwindle there wont be enough local places to fill an ICE eventually, they may convert to being charging stations, perhaps that do both but they may just end up as car washes or looking as forlorn as a Blockbusters video shop still open a couple of years back.
EV development is coming on at a pace, the range is creeping up, the charging infrastructure will improve, especially when people can make money out of it.
"When no one buys them", yep Tesla have 1000s of the things sat in fields nobody is buying, Jaguar haven't sold a single IPace and all development has been cancelled in favour of ICE engines.....
Just read Automcar week on week, it used to be a novelty item about an EV, now its every other page, new diesels especially seem like instant legacy.
Porsche going electric for the next Macan, they arent daft, they can see which way the wind is blowing.
RacerMike said:
In practice going forward though it's being standardised to CSS Type 2. Even the Tesla Model 3 is being standardised to CSS Type 2 so all Rapid chargers will be the same format for all cars.
Interestingly Nissan are sticking with CHAdeMO for the foreseeable future, along with the Outlander PHEV and the Prius Prime PHEV.(Courtesy of cleantechnica.com)
And what about the Tesla 120KW rapid chargers, which are exclusively for Tesla? I can't see them handing them over to the masses any time soon.
It still appears a very disjointed industry, and for argument sake, The Nissan Leaf, which appears to be very popular could end up all but obsolete up until the year they decide to change their charging architecture.
PS - My other concern is that with a lot of people not having off-road parking, the options for 'the masses' to charge at home will be very limited and so the charging architecture will need to be simple.
MrGeoff said:
wab172uk said:
Yet the British infrastructure to charge these thing is virtually none existent.
Sit outside a petrol station for an hour and count how many cars fill up then leave. Now think of the massive que's waiting for all these cars to plug into a charge point for 45 mins.
I'm sure this push for `all electric` will be turned round when no one buys them as they can't charge the damn things up.
Plus, just how many more power stations will we need if we all went all electric? We can't even build one without the French or Chinese building it for us. Look how that's gone recently?
Let's skip the foreplay and get straight to hydrogen...Sit outside a petrol station for an hour and count how many cars fill up then leave. Now think of the massive que's waiting for all these cars to plug into a charge point for 45 mins.
I'm sure this push for `all electric` will be turned round when no one buys them as they can't charge the damn things up.
Plus, just how many more power stations will we need if we all went all electric? We can't even build one without the French or Chinese building it for us. Look how that's gone recently?
Fire99 said:
Interestingly Nissan are sticking with CHAdeMO for the foreseeable future, along with the Outlander PHEV and the Prius Prime PHEV.
(Courtesy of cleantechnica.com)
And what about the Tesla 120KW rapid chargers, which are exclusively for Tesla? I can't see them handing them over to the masses any time soon.
It still appears a very disjointed industry, and for argument sake, The Nissan Leaf, which appears to be very popular could end up all but obsolete up until the year they decide to change their charging architecture.
PS - My other concern is that with a lot of people not having off-road parking, the options for 'the masses' to charge at home will be very limited and so the charging architecture will need to be simple.
The Japanese are a bit of a basket case, but across Europe CCS Type 2 has been standardised. Any of the European EVs will be CCS Type 2 as that's what's been agreed. As for Tesla, I'm not sure they'll open up their network to support other EVs in the near future, but that's slightly irrelevant for everyone else.(Courtesy of cleantechnica.com)
And what about the Tesla 120KW rapid chargers, which are exclusively for Tesla? I can't see them handing them over to the masses any time soon.
It still appears a very disjointed industry, and for argument sake, The Nissan Leaf, which appears to be very popular could end up all but obsolete up until the year they decide to change their charging architecture.
PS - My other concern is that with a lot of people not having off-road parking, the options for 'the masses' to charge at home will be very limited and so the charging architecture will need to be simple.
On street parking.....there are solutions. Not in the short term, but the medium term stuff will happen. Almost every parking space in Sweden has a 240V plug by it to connect a park heater, so it's certainly not impossible. And with 350kW charging, it actually wouldn't be much of a problem to not have home charging. Either way, no one is suggesting EVs are suitable for everyone just yet. As a species we managed to solve the problem of refining millions of liters of dino juice and transporting it across the world, so pushing some electrons around a network that already exists is pretty straight forward by comparison.
aaron_2000 said:
MrGeoff said:
wab172uk said:
Yet the British infrastructure to charge these thing is virtually none existent.
Sit outside a petrol station for an hour and count how many cars fill up then leave. Now think of the massive que's waiting for all these cars to plug into a charge point for 45 mins.
I'm sure this push for `all electric` will be turned round when no one buys them as they can't charge the damn things up.
Plus, just how many more power stations will we need if we all went all electric? We can't even build one without the French or Chinese building it for us. Look how that's gone recently?
Let's skip the foreplay and get straight to hydrogen...Sit outside a petrol station for an hour and count how many cars fill up then leave. Now think of the massive que's waiting for all these cars to plug into a charge point for 45 mins.
I'm sure this push for `all electric` will be turned round when no one buys them as they can't charge the damn things up.
Plus, just how many more power stations will we need if we all went all electric? We can't even build one without the French or Chinese building it for us. Look how that's gone recently?
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