RE: Next Porsche Macan to be electric only
Discussion
J4CKO said:
What the world needs is cheap EV's though, I suppose the issue is they are expensive to produce and heavy so biased towards luxury cars.
Is there anything EV smaller than a Leaf ? which is actually a fairly large car, something Aygo/Up Sized would be great, I know there is the E Up but I dont think you can buy one and its 24 grand ffs, imagine say a 15 grand electric supermini, zero VED, fairly brisk, quiet, pennies to run and a decent range, now thats the one that would be pretty compelling for so many punters.
or cheap and mid priced EVs Is there anything EV smaller than a Leaf ? which is actually a fairly large car, something Aygo/Up Sized would be great, I know there is the E Up but I dont think you can buy one and its 24 grand ffs, imagine say a 15 grand electric supermini, zero VED, fairly brisk, quiet, pennies to run and a decent range, now thats the one that would be pretty compelling for so many punters.
but more importantly a company that can make them in volume so that people can actually order the bloody things, I still have 5k in my account for an e-niro if they hadn't sold 3 years production in 17 seconds ... (all 12 cars they can make)
still Ol' Musky reckons he will be up to 500k units a year by the end of 2019
hondansx said:
Explaining the choice, Porsche bigwig Oliver Blume said: "Electromobility and Porsche go together perfectly; not just because they share a high-efficiency approach, but especially because of their sporty character."
What a load of tosh!
Blame Telsa owners filling yutoob with vids of P100Ds destroying supercars on the standing qtr What a load of tosh!
lyonspride said:
But the charging issue isn't going to go away, most people cannot charge an EV at home, and the size of a public fuel station style charging area would be entirely impossible, it would have to cater for hundreds of EVs for hours at a time (where as 100's of ICE vehicles can easily pass through a small petrol station in the space of an hour). You'd need an area the size of a football pitch to serve just one small housing estate.
We're just going to end up in a situation where this whole thing becomes a tax on the poorest communities.
Petrol stations aren’t really going to revolve into charging stations. The size of plot v time to charge is all wrong. Cars will be charged where they are parked. Every car park will become a charging point. Weekly shop, Sunday lunch, office car park, station car park, local dogging spot. The reality is that people won’t actually need to charge at home plus, only people who can use EVs will buy them unless they are properly thick and then they have far bigger issues in life and if wandering around the font of their house with a plug in their hand, a glazed look on their face totally confused keeps them away from society for a while then even that’s a benefit. We're just going to end up in a situation where this whole thing becomes a tax on the poorest communities.
lyonspride said:
But the charging issue isn't going to go away, most people cannot charge an EV at home
Citation please, this says less than 1/3.https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-42944523
lyonspride said:
RacerMike said:
I'm genuinely excited to see what comes out in the next 5 years....as long as we can still drive our ICE cars at weekends!
But the charging issue isn't going to go away, most people cannot charge an EV at home, and the size of a public fuel station style charging area would be entirely impossible, it would have to cater for hundreds of EVs for hours at a time (where as 100's of ICE vehicles can easily pass through a small petrol station in the space of an hour). You'd need an area the size of a football pitch to serve just one small housing estate.We're just going to end up in a situation where this whole thing becomes a tax on the poorest communities.
1. EV's won't be for everyone just yet
2. The fuel station charging 'issue' if you can really call it that, isn't really an issue even with current technology - 800V batteries and 350kW chargers as found at Ionity's Hypercharging stations (two of which are close to opening in the UK) will charge a 90kWh car to 80% in 15mins. That would be enough for around 180 miles of range. Even a 400V battery would only take 25 mins at 175kW (the max charging rate for a 400V system). And that assumes everyone needs to do 180 miles. In reality, if you were stopping on a journey, the 800V cars would stop for around 5-10 mins and the 400V ones 10-15. To fuel a car, go in and pay takes around 5mins currently. Your average fuel station at a service station has probably 10 pumps which are very space inefficient. In the same space you could easily fit 20 charging bays. And that assumes everyone has and EV...which in 5 years time they won't.
3. Home/street parking is an easy problem to solve. Everyone has a parking space, and installing 7.4kW AC charging posts isn't a problem that is beyond mankind. Of course there are places that it's inconvenient, but let's be honest here. Poorer communities aren't going to be buying EVs in 5 years time. It'll be 10-15 years before that happens.....by which point the 'problem can easily be fixed'.
I appreciate people feel threatened that what they know and love is being replaced. But do you really know and love a 1.0L Ecoboost Fiesta? Would it not be a better car with an EV powertrain? No one is going to stop anyone selling or buying 911s, or second hand E46s.
Charging EVs is a tiny engineering problem which is very easily solved.
I read its anything between 9 - 20 nuclear power stations, needed - Just to power electric cars, alone!!
Case in point; Hinkley Point - First sanctioned by Blair back in 1997...wont be ready until 2026
And all coal fired power stations have to be gone by 2025
So; What will be the priority?...Light and warmth in the home ...Or to run an electric car?
And then there us having to rely on the Chinese (& French! - who hate us for leaving ) - This will be a car for the few...not the many.
Even if we get faster charging batteries - I still think there will be a cost and they are still a few years off, yet with this.
Its probably ok for the majority of Surrey living, detached home with garage & gravel drive owning Porsche enthusiasts, out there...But there are an awful lot of people who use on-road parking and I relish the lawyers chasing owners for injuries once people start tripping over their electric cables from their homes to cars across pavements OR finding yobs have cut the cables in the night for a laugh & finding their car "dead", in the morning
Unless the government start investing £billions in infrastructure and the prices for these vehicles comes down a lot aswell as charging times faster and charge points more plentiful - It wont be happening in my lifetime.
And then theres hydrogen powered cars?...And whether, like petrol & diesel, the govenments get it totally wrong in 10 years time & start penalising electric car owners in favour of hydrogen cars?
For now; I'll continue to do my bit for global warming & continue to drive my Range Rover TDV8!
Case in point; Hinkley Point - First sanctioned by Blair back in 1997...wont be ready until 2026
And all coal fired power stations have to be gone by 2025
So; What will be the priority?...Light and warmth in the home ...Or to run an electric car?
And then there us having to rely on the Chinese (& French! - who hate us for leaving ) - This will be a car for the few...not the many.
Even if we get faster charging batteries - I still think there will be a cost and they are still a few years off, yet with this.
Its probably ok for the majority of Surrey living, detached home with garage & gravel drive owning Porsche enthusiasts, out there...But there are an awful lot of people who use on-road parking and I relish the lawyers chasing owners for injuries once people start tripping over their electric cables from their homes to cars across pavements OR finding yobs have cut the cables in the night for a laugh & finding their car "dead", in the morning
Unless the government start investing £billions in infrastructure and the prices for these vehicles comes down a lot aswell as charging times faster and charge points more plentiful - It wont be happening in my lifetime.
And then theres hydrogen powered cars?...And whether, like petrol & diesel, the govenments get it totally wrong in 10 years time & start penalising electric car owners in favour of hydrogen cars?
For now; I'll continue to do my bit for global warming & continue to drive my Range Rover TDV8!
dunnoreally said:
There's still plenty of people out their actively choosing dinosaur burners, and I don't think they'll all have stopped by 2021. Which means they're shutting out a significant proportion of the market for their most popular model. I'm sure Porsche have done their research, but that still seems a strange move to me.
Even more strange, when Audi and VW have both just announced new high-performance diesel version of their sister models, which given Porsche 'should' be the premier 'performance' brand of VAG, is very perplexing.I can see more logic to VW and perhaps Audi doing the EV only, but not Porsche, as after all, ICE has pretty much defined the brand. If anything Porsche should be the bastion of staying ICE as long as possible among the VAG brands, not the other way around.
I was going to be in the market for a new gen Macan when they were due out, (possibly even a hybrid) but I won't be now if they indeed are going to be EV only, as that simply doesn't work for me.
Oh well..........
W12AAM said:
I read its anything between 9 - 20 nuclear power stations, needed - Just to power electric cars, alone!!
Case in point; Hinkley Point - First sanctioned by Blair back in 1997...wont be ready until 2026
And all coal fired power stations have to be gone by 2025
So; What will be the priority?...Light and warmth in the home ...Or to run an electric car?
And then there us having to rely on the Chinese (& French! - who hate us for leaving ) - This will be a car for the few...not the many.
The National Grid have already done a study on energy supply. Charging cars will not be a problem, no ones kettle will go unboiled and if anything, our energy supply will actually be more efficient than it currently is.Case in point; Hinkley Point - First sanctioned by Blair back in 1997...wont be ready until 2026
And all coal fired power stations have to be gone by 2025
So; What will be the priority?...Light and warmth in the home ...Or to run an electric car?
And then there us having to rely on the Chinese (& French! - who hate us for leaving ) - This will be a car for the few...not the many.
W12AAM said:
Even if we get faster charging batteries - I still think there will be a cost and they are still a few years off, yet with this.
Even if we get faster charging batteries? Faster than 10mins to do 80% as we already have next year? I mean....ok....maybe 80% in 5mins would be nice, but we're not very far off that. W12AAM said:
Its probably ok for the majority of Surrey living, detached home with garage & gravel drive owning Porsche enthusiasts, out there...But there are an awful lot of people who use on-road parking and I relish the lawyers chasing owners for injuries once people start tripping over their electric cables from their homes to cars across pavements OR finding yobs have cut the cables in the night for a laugh & finding their car "dead", in the morning
That's inventing problems to fit your point of view. Swedes don't suffer from 'yobs' disconnecting their block heaters. And also good luck to them I say. Trying to cut through an AC charge cable would need a knife per cable. Pretty expensive vandalism for the jobs to get a nice mains voltage electric shock!W12AAM said:
Unless the government start investing £billions in infrastructure and the prices for these vehicles comes down a lot aswell as charging times faster and charge points more plentiful - It wont be happening in my lifetime.
The Government is investing money in infrastructure. As are private companies https://www.fleetnews.co.uk/news/company-car-tax-a.... And what price would you like them to come down to? You can already buy a KIA eNiro or Hyundai Kona EV for £35k which does 250miles on a charge. Pretty comparable to a Ford Focus really....W12AAM said:
And then theres hydrogen powered cars?...And whether, like petrol & diesel, the govenments get it totally wrong in 10 years time & start penalising electric car owners in favour of hydrogen cars?
No there isn't Hydrogen cars. If you simply read up the thread a few posts you'll see the discussion that Hydrogen as a fuel source for cars doesn't work. It's woefully inefficient and really hard to transport. They're just not a thing....in the same sense that the likelihood of you buying a car with a nuclear reactor in it is unlikely.W12AAM said:
For now; I'll continue to do my bit for global warming & continue to drive my Range Rover TDV8!
Absolutely. No one is stopping you. You might actually be missing out on a better car if you are that against EVs though. An EV Range Rover would actually be better than your TDV8 one in every way apart from the range currently. How often do you drive 250miles in one go?Edited by RacerMike on Wednesday 27th February 15:38
Edited by RacerMike on Wednesday 27th February 15:39
W12AAM said:
I read its anything between 9 - 20 nuclear power stations, needed - Just to power electric cars, alone!!
Citation?Do you realise how much electricity it takes to produce diesel and petrol? Most refineries have their own dedicated power stations. When you're burning petrol in a car, it's already taken a ton of electricity to produce.
Electricity usage will go up, but not nearly as much as that.
framerateuk said:
W12AAM said:
I read its anything between 9 - 20 nuclear power stations, needed - Just to power electric cars, alone!!
Citation?aeropilot said:
Even more strange, when Audi and VW have both just announced new high-performance diesel version of their sister models, which given Porsche 'should' be the premier 'performance' brand of VAG, is very perplexing.
I can see more logic to VW and perhaps Audi doing the EV only, but not Porsche, as after all, ICE has pretty much defined the brand. If anything Porsche should be the bastion of staying ICE as long as possible among the VAG brands, not the other way around.
I was going to be in the market for a new gen Macan when they were due out, (possibly even a hybrid) but I won't be now if they indeed are going to be EV only, as that simply doesn't work for me.
Oh well..........
Most Porsches are diesels mated to auto boxes with as many gears as possible. An electric motor is the real deal of constant torque but without the whiff and noise of a minicab. With the exception of the usual problem of the bloke who lives at the top of a lighthouse and has to commute to Mogadishu and back every day, an EV drivetrain is exactly what the diesel drivetrain has been desperately trying to be but could never. I can see more logic to VW and perhaps Audi doing the EV only, but not Porsche, as after all, ICE has pretty much defined the brand. If anything Porsche should be the bastion of staying ICE as long as possible among the VAG brands, not the other way around.
I was going to be in the market for a new gen Macan when they were due out, (possibly even a hybrid) but I won't be now if they indeed are going to be EV only, as that simply doesn't work for me.
Oh well..........
otolith said:
lyonspride said:
But the charging issue isn't going to go away, most people cannot charge an EV at home
Citation please, this says less than 1/3.https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-42944523
kambites said:
DonkeyApple said:
Most Porsches are diesels mated to auto boxes with as many gears as possible
I don't think Porsche make any diesels anymore and I don't think they've ever been the majority of their sales? Clearly Porsche believe that the majority of these were by people who do short daily journey profiles, rather actually use there cars, although I know that isn't the case for the 2 of the 3 Macan owners I know as well as both Cayenne owners I know.
I had to attend a family funeral down in Devon last week, and did London-Torquay, overnight stay, then next day Torquay to Plymouth, and then onto Newquay before back to London that night.
In my X5 40d, I started with a full tank and did the whole 550 miles over 2 days without having to fill up until almost home, to save time for the early start I was having the next morning. The distance to empty on the readout when I filled up after the trip said 715 miles to empty!!
When a EV can do that I'll happily buy one.
griffdude said:
A basic EV question- what does it cost to charge one? Is it cheaper at home?
At home maybe 14-16p/kwh after charging losses on a normal tariff or you can get that down to about half that with a special offpeak tariff. Public chargers vary but are generally considerably more expensive.
Edited by kambites on Wednesday 27th February 16:50
At the moment one of the biggest drivers for EV's is running costs.
When HMRC sees the tax revenue from fossil fuels drop through the floor they'll have to replace it from somewhere. EV's are cheap to run at the moment but it won't stay that way. EV's in a few years will be just as expensive to run as ICE.
When HMRC sees the tax revenue from fossil fuels drop through the floor they'll have to replace it from somewhere. EV's are cheap to run at the moment but it won't stay that way. EV's in a few years will be just as expensive to run as ICE.
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